Hull Paint now dull where cleaned - Help
- Thread starter browntdb
- Start date
browntdb":ui2cnr2p said:
A question (I realize you might not immediately know since the boat is new to you, but it will make a difference to the outcome): Normally, the blue sheer stripe (and other colored trim) on a C-Dory is molded gelcoat (just like the white is). I have seen where people have painted it (usually to change color), but it's not done all that often. So, is yours actually paint that you know of? If so, the next step would be to determine what kind of paint. I could see On/Off damaging paint (I'll have to look it up to make sure I'm remembering correctly, but I believe On/Off is an acid-based cleaner).
On the other hand, if your stripe is the original gelcoat, it should be okay. And yet it isn't... So why did it dull or change color? Thinking out loud: Perhaps the gelcoat was oxidized and someone waxed it or used a product like Poliglow on it to "bring it back to life," and that has now been removed by the On/Off. Can you post any photos? Not sure we could tell from a photo, but it might help.
Edited to add: If you used the gel cleaner, it looks like it's hydrochloric and phosphoric acid based. Here is a link to the MSDS:
http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/63532.pdf
Sunbeam
It is the original paint under the jel coat. product said it would not harm pain or jel coat. It just looks like the paint is oxidized and needs polished but I don't know which product to use for a boat.
I used a touch of Nu Finish on one spot, and it brought back the color, so I think it just needs a good wax/cleaner. I just need advice on what to use on a boat that will be in salt water at times. NuFinish is a car wax.
Thanks,
Terry
I used a touch of Nu Finish on one spot, and it brought back the color, so I think it just needs a good wax/cleaner. I just need advice on what to use on a boat that will be in salt water at times. NuFinish is a car wax.
Thanks,
Terry
browntdb":2bbxas5e said:
Okay, well just to be clear, paint and gelcoat are two different things. Gelcoat is a polyester resin, which on the C-Dory is laid up in the mold as the first layer. One wouldn't gelcoat over paint, but people do paint over gelcoat. At any rate, gelcoat is quite restorable, generally, so I would generally try to restore it if possible (if that's what you still have). If gelcoat (eventually) gets past the point of no return, then paint is the next logical step (or if one wants to change the color of course).
Thing is, you would use different techniques or products on gelcoat or paint (and different things for different types of paint, which can vary from a one-part alkyd to a one-part latex, to a two-part LPU, and etc.). So step one is to figure out what you have on the boat - the original gelcoat or something else.
Sunbeam
PS: Is this the product you used or was it a different product by MaryKate? (I guessed this one because it is a gel, but they make a number of different cleaners.)
PPS: A note on gelcoat waxing: Wax is generally used to protect the existing finish. It will add a bit of its own shine, but if your gelcoat isn't shiny, the first step would be to bring back the shine by compounding or even wet-sanding, and then polishing. Then once you have that re-developed the shine (basically by exfoliating the gelcoat), then wax to protect if from UV and other atmospheric factors. If you do have gelcoat and the acid dulled it, I would think you removed a wax or poliglow type product.
+1 on the compounding and polishing. On the recommendation of a boat builder friend/neighbor of ours, I compounded and polished the whole boat... it took me the better part of two full days. I used a 2000 grit compound. On his recommendation, I did not wax it afterwards. Next time I had the boat on the trailer, I decided to wax it. I did not compound the blue on the brow or the stripe at the top of the cabin, out of concern that it would ruin the black tape stripe. I did carefully go over all that by hand. A couple coats of wax there brought that back to its former shine.
Checking the MSD on Mary Kate On/Off, it is hydrochloric acid, phosphoric acid, and oxalic acid... don't let it get on the galvanized trailer or the tires! I use Starbrite Hull Cleaner (similar stuff), and am careful to put it on with a sponge and use a tarp over the trailer, flooding with LOTS of fresh water. Gloves and eye protection. Do not let it get on the bottom paint, if your boat is so equipped. I do NOT use it on the colored portions of the hull, only on the white; it is really good at taking the "mustache" off at the waterline.
Hope that helps.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Last week, the brow was due for some spiffing up - I put on 4 coats of wax to bring the shine back.
Checking the MSD on Mary Kate On/Off, it is hydrochloric acid, phosphoric acid, and oxalic acid... don't let it get on the galvanized trailer or the tires! I use Starbrite Hull Cleaner (similar stuff), and am careful to put it on with a sponge and use a tarp over the trailer, flooding with LOTS of fresh water. Gloves and eye protection. Do not let it get on the bottom paint, if your boat is so equipped. I do NOT use it on the colored portions of the hull, only on the white; it is really good at taking the "mustache" off at the waterline.
Hope that helps.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
Last week, the brow was due for some spiffing up - I put on 4 coats of wax to bring the shine back.
Someone at West Marine gave you bad advice. The On/off would be mostly for stains near the waterline, but not for the entire boat! Remember that many folks who work at West Marine are not experts in the marine field. In fact at our local store, none are! Some get technical expertise by taking courses taught by West Marine. I have seen dark gel coat discolored by the products like On/off--usually a bit more harsh product.
First I would try using a rubbing compound by hand, and see how it polished out. I am not a fan of Nu Finish for boats. It is a polish, and does not protect the gel coat. Wax will protect the gel coat. Gel coat is fairly pouris and the wax will both fill the pores and protect form the UV to some degree. Waxing should be done at least twice a year.
Any compound on a small area will see how it works, and what it will look like. Jim's idea of a 1200 compound is fairly aggressive, but that may be what is necessary. I usually start with 3 M Finessette II by hand, and go from there. It may pay to have a professional do it the first time. I would put painting the color stripe way down the line on what I need to to to restore a boat, unless it has already been painted.
First I would try using a rubbing compound by hand, and see how it polished out. I am not a fan of Nu Finish for boats. It is a polish, and does not protect the gel coat. Wax will protect the gel coat. Gel coat is fairly pouris and the wax will both fill the pores and protect form the UV to some degree. Waxing should be done at least twice a year.
Any compound on a small area will see how it works, and what it will look like. Jim's idea of a 1200 compound is fairly aggressive, but that may be what is necessary. I usually start with 3 M Finessette II by hand, and go from there. It may pay to have a professional do it the first time. I would put painting the color stripe way down the line on what I need to to to restore a boat, unless it has already been painted.
Although, even if it was overkill for much of the topsides (and I agree that I would generally only use it for specific stains), I wouldn't think it would "wreck" gelcoat. It seems a bit like the Davis FSR (an acid/gel stain remover for fiberglass), which I don't think would damage colored gelcoat (although I have only used it on small areas of the white gelcoat). That's not to say I recommend using it for general cleaning, but I'd think it would be safe.
That's what makes me think that either the stripes/color has been painted over (and it *would* damage paint, I believe), or someone used one of the "topical" products to improve the gelcoat (such as Poliglow) and that has simply washed off re-revealing oxidized gelcoat that was under the Poliglow-type product. I say "topical," because things like Poliglow are coatings vs. actually "exfoliating" the "dead" gelcoat with compound/polish.
Hard to tell without seeing it, but trying to give you something to go on.
Sunbeam
That's what makes me think that either the stripes/color has been painted over (and it *would* damage paint, I believe), or someone used one of the "topical" products to improve the gelcoat (such as Poliglow) and that has simply washed off re-revealing oxidized gelcoat that was under the Poliglow-type product. I say "topical," because things like Poliglow are coatings vs. actually "exfoliating" the "dead" gelcoat with compound/polish.
Hard to tell without seeing it, but trying to give you something to go on.
Sunbeam
Thanks for all the advice. I did use the product only on waterline stains. I went to the local marina in Corvallis and got a high quality marine wax and put it on the painted areas on the lower sides of the boat (on top of gel coat...my error in previous post) and the oxidation look pretty much went away. The gel coat on the non painted surfaces is still shiny on the boat, so just a good washing and waxing should do the trick.
I just stressed too soon I suppose. Thanks again for all the input to my problem. I really do appreciate it.
I just stressed too soon I suppose. Thanks again for all the input to my problem. I really do appreciate it.
Wayne McCown
New member
We have several older RVs. One is a 1973 white fiberglass SCAMP 13' trailer. Due to age (it had always sat outside), the gel-coat on the top had literally worn through.
I sprayed white paint (using a linen finish) over the worn areas, then applied Poli-Glow. Two years later, it still looks like new. Even given what I have told you here, you would not be able to tell where the Poli-Glow covers gel-coat and where it covers white spray paint.
I am so impressed with this product, that I also have applied it to our 32' Jayco fifth wheel trailer, and to our 22' C-Dory. I did all of these units two years ago; I plan to apply a new coating of Poli-Glow this season.
I sprayed white paint (using a linen finish) over the worn areas, then applied Poli-Glow. Two years later, it still looks like new. Even given what I have told you here, you would not be able to tell where the Poli-Glow covers gel-coat and where it covers white spray paint.
I am so impressed with this product, that I also have applied it to our 32' Jayco fifth wheel trailer, and to our 22' C-Dory. I did all of these units two years ago; I plan to apply a new coating of Poli-Glow this season.
If you keep the 
oly Glow product up it will work for a number of years. At some point--usually about 5 years, it has to be stripped. That is where it is difficult.
Sunbeam, I have seen cases where acid wash has damaged gel coat. It probably was poorly applied, or perhaps a "patch", but it can happen, especially with dark colors.
That being said, it does sound as if it was bottom paint which he put the product on--and in that case "no harm, no foul".
oly Glow product up it will work for a number of years. At some point--usually about 5 years, it has to be stripped. That is where it is difficult. Sunbeam, I have seen cases where acid wash has damaged gel coat. It probably was poorly applied, or perhaps a "patch", but it can happen, especially with dark colors.
That being said, it does sound as if it was bottom paint which he put the product on--and in that case "no harm, no foul".