Idea for bottom paint blocks while on trailer

Hey Matt, probably too late for this year but John on Swee Pea (see his album page 4/5) used a G&G Boat Lift to get the trailer out from under his 22.

Probably not strong enough for a TC255 but I bet you could build one strong enough for it without too much effort. Would sure make painting the bottom simple without the trailer there at all. The twin hulls would make it very stable while moving the trailer out.

Charlie
 
Matt,

I am thinking that the TC 255 is built much stronger than my old houseboats which had the "tri-hull" configuration. To bottom paint them, I'd just jack up one side (after stabilizing the trailer and other side) to finish the spots on the supports, then move the jack supports over and do those spots. Then, I'd lower the side that was finished and jack up and support the other side.

I had to use back dolly to lie upon while doing the middle parts, but that part should be easier on a TomCat.

So, in summary, prep all the parts you can without jacking, then jack up one half and prep that part, then do the same for the other half. After all sections are prepped, repeat the process with epoxy and bottom paint. It is not bad if you take your time and do a section at a time.

I am also nervous about just setting the boat on stands, but my marina is the local bottom paint expert and they set huge, 80-100 foot boats on foam blocks and jackstands all the time.

John
 
Based on my schedule over the next month I will probable tackle the bottom painting in the Spring.

I was thinking more about jacking up the Tomcat from the stern. I'm concerned about the boat moving left or right if I don't have the base of the jack perfectly level. To describe it another way, imagine looking at the Tomcat from the stern toward the bow, if I jack up the back with a spar of some kind, my concern is the boat will slip to the right or left if the jack base is not perfectly level.

Would this concern be addressed by using two jacks, one basically under the spar of course but located under each sponson? Two jacks would make the whole thing more stable.

It would be great to be able to jack up just one side at a time, thereby leaving the other sponson flat in the trailer bunk for stability. Except that I don't have a way to do that. The only access point under the sponsons is aft, about 6' forward of the engines.

I suppose I could jack up one side aft, place my supports between the hull and the bunk as far forward as possible, support the aft section, then set it down and repeat on the other side. Except this seems like it would put a lot of torsion on the boat.

Do you guys think the wing deck could support the weight of jacking up one side of the boat at a time? For example, placing an 8' spar parallel to and as close to the sponson as possible, jacking it up, then placing supports between the sponson and the bunk, then set her down to do my work?

The challenge has to do with the cat hull and the fact that in my case I can only jack from the aft....I re-read the thread above but would welcome suggestions.
 
Since I have 4 bunks on my 22, I was thinking of lowering one bunk at a time and painting the exposed section. The boat should balance on the remaining bunks. When lowering the outer bunks, I would use blocks fore and aft for safety between the lowered bunk and the hull. You would probably need an impact driver to loosen the bolts up and a bottle jack to put the bunks back at the right height.
 
Matt,

You could check with the factory, but the reason the TomCat 255 is so heavy is all that structure between the hulls. I am confident a gentle jacking up of one side would not be any harder on the hulls than going headlong at speed in a 4 foot sea.


Also, as someone has also mentioned, jacking up and resting back upon wooden blocks on the trailer would allow you to reach underneath most of the hull. You could jack the back, then run a board under the space further forward and rest on that. I would not worry too much about the leading, sharp bottom edge (as long as it is epoxied) since sliding the boat on and off the trailer bunk will rub most of the paint off that area anyway.

John
 
If you were to jack the aft end with a "spar"--I assume a 4 x 4--then you must use two jacks--not one.

I suspect that the hull is strong enough to jack under the wing deck, but I have not done it. But you would have to have a lot of cribbing under the jack to get it high enough to jack under the wing deck. When I jack a mono hull, I will keep putting cribbing under the hull as I jack it, so that if the jack slipped, the hull would only fall a couple of inches at the most. Also there is the limit of the lift of the hydraulic bottle jack. As you lift a boat off the trailer, the springs come up first, then the boat comes off--often you have to jack up a total of 12" or more to get enough room under the hull to paint (including the amout the trailer comes up as the boat weight comes off.

The other option for the Tom Cat is lifting under the Armstrong bracket--it holds the motors and is well secured to the thull, and would be a better lifting point than the wing deck. If you were to lift under the wing deck, you should consider a large area of contact.
 
I've never bottom painted, but can tell you how one of the local fiberglass repair men says he does it on bunk trailers, and I suppose it would work on rollers, as well.

His trick is to jack up the front of the trailer as far as it will go with the trailer's own jack, block the keel toward the bow, and lower the trailer jack while backing off on the trailer's winch. The hull ends up being supported in three places: the keel, and the two aft bunks.

Seems workable to me, so long as the keel block is secure. I'd block the trailer tires, and also be inclined to put jack stands under the axle, so that a flat tire doesn't cause a bad day. I have messed with this approach, just to see if it works, and just enough to take all pressure off the front bunks. This would allow me to remove them, one at a time, and do whatever bottom work was necessary. You'd want to make darn sure your keel block couldn't slip, to avoid punching a hole in the bottom of the boat. I made up a slotted frame which had a channel about half the depth of the keel, running along the keel, and padding on the sides so it couldn't tip.

I haven't messed with the stern, but it would work pretty much in reverse of the bow: lower the trailer's jack, block the keel at the stern (or, better yet, the transom), then raise the jack. I'd be inclined to raise the front of the trailer with a floor jack when doing the stern, since this would be a good way to overload the trailer jack. Jack stand the front of the trailer, and you should be set to go.

Dont' know if this works, but it's how I'd head into it. Let us know what you do.
 
Alma's only--this techinque does work--and I have used a variation to put the boat on the ground as well as paint--but always put jack stands or some other back up on the sides as well as keel blocks--even auto jack stands with wooden blocks work fine.

However, the situation is complicated with the cat, as Matt has. The bunks are single or double slightly V on each side running the length of the hull, so that there needs to be some support of both hulls--a 2 x will not be strong enough--so a 4 x 4 at least must be used. Not sure you can support the boat (reason I believe Matt asked about the wing deck)--easily and lower the trailer tongue.
 
Well I took a few pictures of my setup today. I'm still pondering the best way to get some clearance off the trailer.

What about using boat stands on the flat portion of the sponsons aft? I'm referring to the flat portion on the outside edges of the sponsons. Do you think this area would allow sufficient load distribution...say with a good piece of 4x4 (say a 1-2' long) to support the weight? This flat area is exactly 3.5" wide.
 
Are you going to lift on this area with both sides equally? If so, I think you could do it with two hyraulic bottle jacks on each side with a 4 x 4 between it and hull. However, you would have to be very careful that this did not pop out. I see some risk here--but have not tried it... I might be tempted to put the boat in the water, then when putting it back on the trailer, leave 6" of hull unsupported. That would allow jacks to be put under the hull right under the transom (again with 4 x 4 between the jack and the boat--and I would put a steel plate between the top of the jacks and the 4 x 4.

Boat stands would be marginal--The jacks would only be used for lifting to get a heavier beam between the trailer and the boat--3.5" is enough room to put a roller under.

You really don't want any of these lifting devices to fly out from under the boat!
 
thataway":221qvr7t said:
Are you going to lift on this area with both sides equally? If so, I think you could do it with two hyraulic bottle jacks on each side with a 4 x 4 between it and hull. However, you would have to be very careful that this did not pop out. I see some risk here--but have not tried it... I might be tempted to put the boat in the water, then when putting it back on the trailer, leave 6" of hull unsupported. That would allow jacks to be put under the hull right under the transom (again with 4 x 4 between the jack and the boat--and I would put a steel plate between the top of the jacks and the 4 x 4.

Boat stands would be marginal--The jacks would only be used for lifting to get a heavier beam between the trailer and the boat--3.5" is enough room to put a roller under.

You really don't want any of these lifting devices to fly out from under the boat!
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,
If I were to use this area as a contact point I would lift both sides equally. I was thinking of boat stands, if I can find some that would fit under there, since as you pointed out I would need a tall base structure before a bottle jack would be able to touch the sponsons. I think the higher the base I need to build to use bottle jacks the greater the chance of something going awry.

In my yard the level outer edge of the starboard sponson is 26" from the ground, on the port side it's 29" from the ground. If I needed more clearance to get the boat stands under I suppose I could back the trailer up on some planks...(edit - just heard from a buddy with jack stands - his stands measure just over 30 inches at the lowest setting).

Unfortunately I'm not close enough to a ramp to change the boats position on the trailer....that would be a great idea though. My original plan was to mount carpet covered blocks between the sponsons and the trailer while at the ramp but I decided I did not want a 40 mile ride on the highway with that configuration.

Two boat stands on each side of the wing deck area between the sponsons (with plenty of wood between the boat stand and the hull) would certainly be convenient but I'm on the fence as to whether I want to try it. The Armstrong bracket is of course angled with no opportunity to bite on a flat surface for any sort of lift...

Thanks for the brainstorming...this would be easy on a mono!
 
Of course the measurements from the ground to the level portion of the outer sponson I referenced above were with a somewhat level trailer. I could of course lower the trailer down as low as possible thus elevating the height at the stern to help fit the boat stands.
 
Does anyone have an idea where the center of gravity is on the Tomcat? If you reference this picture of my traileryou can see the break in the bunks are almost dead center of the rear tires. I will have to look more closely, but I *might* be able to get some jacks there if I can find a way to prop up the base securely. If that spot lifted just the stern it may be an option, if it lifted the entire vessel it would not.

On another note, if I lower the trailer tongue all the way down I can pretty easily measure about 35 inches to the flat portion of the outer sponsons I referenced above.

Any jacking I do will be in the driveway to take advantage of the solid and mostly level pavement.

Thanks
 
Matt, common sense (of which I do not have a plethora (heck, I don't even know what plethora means :roll: )) would tell you that if the tongue weight is neutral (i.e. Zero) the CG should be dead center between your tandem tires. Given that it has some tongue weight, it is a little forward of the center of the tires, heaver tongue weight > farther forward, lighter tongue weight < less forward but foward nevertheless.. :thup

If you can get jacks in there, it should lift the stern only...

Charlie
 
Hi Charlie,
That would certainly make sense considering my tongue weight is not terribly high. (Give me just a moment for a "duh"). You know, I had to calculate COG on the aircraft I flew but my brain was temporarily cramped when I made the above post....

The break in my bunks would be pretty darn close to the COG....if just a bit aft...hmmmm...

I'm determined to find a solution to this....I need to be able to get under the bunks.
 
You would be putting most of the load of the boat (total close to 10,000 lbs, or 5,000 lbs on each side)--since the hull is not flat, but rounded on the bottom, there would be a high load per square inch--

The advantage of jacking against the trailer to the hull, is that you are not lifting against the springs or torsion axel--and you don't have to lift as far.

The "easy" solution is a "A" or "H" frame lift on the transom--under the engine brackets or if you have "U" bolts on the Armstrong bracket. I probably would not try and lift the boat by the "u"bolts in the transom. I don't believe that these are designed for this weight.

However getting back to the transom lift (engine bracket/Armstrong bracket) there are two possibilities--one is a "High Lift" mechanical jack--page 392 of Northern Tool Catalogue. The other is a "Long Ram" hydraulic jack and finally the mechanical adjustable floor jacks. These are screw operated. My father used to lift his boat with similar jacks. The trick is how to secure these to the transom or under the engines (I have heard of people lifting the stern using the engine hydraulic lift system, bit I would be very cautious about this.

As for uneven ground or soft ground. I use cribbing: usually of 4 x 4 stacked. I also have some short 12 x 12"s to use for blocks under the jacks. Again, you do have to be absolutely sure that these are very stable.

As
 
Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen.

Bob - I did not follow how I might jack between the trailer and the boat?

I too am concerned about too much force in a small area....it seems the best idea might be along the flat edge of the sponsons. I could use a 2' long piece of 4 X 4 to distribute the load a bit better for example. I was thinking of maybe using a come along to prevent the boat stands from flying out.

I was thinking of trying to use the slope of my driveway to offer a bit more vertical space between the boat lifts and the hull. Carefully blocking wheels of course. Perhaps I could secure the stands to the hull, then use a bottle jack on the tongue of the trailer so I would have a single point of lift without having to coordinate lifting the transom with a buddy. I would go slow and check position frequently....as soon as some space exists between the bunks and the hull begin stacking 2 X 6 pressure treated wood pieces. I need just enough space between the bunks and trailer to get a paint roller under.

Do you think the load of the stern, if supported on a 2' long 4 X 4's against the flat portion of the outer sponsons, would cause undue stress or damage? You know....I will have 4 stands....I could use two stands on each sponson. So 2, 4 X 4 pieces on each sponson placed on the inside and outside flat edges. The sponsons have that 3.5" wide flat edge on the inside and outside. Hmmm....if the stands can fit that close together that might be the best means for load distribution.....

If I can figure out a way to do this I will definitely share the pictures.
 
I have bottom painted many boats and everytime I look for a better way. Up to now I have found easy ways to lift the boat off the trailer bunks but no easy way to save the back paint from being under the boat and working between trailer frame parts. Just gin and bear it is my only solution.

As to raising the boat off the bunks, I use a floor Jack and 4 x 4 blocking at the transom to get the height I need to allow the use of a 1 inch painter roller. I loosen the bow strap before jacking up the back. I use the small paint roller for the bunk area only and hard to get to places, other wise I use a standard roller and/or bursh for the rest. I have also found that before lowering the boat back onto the bunks that newpaper will provide the barrier between fresh paint and the carpeted bunks works great and any that sticks to the boat will be gone in a mattter of a few day of boating. It only takes about two pages of thickness to do it's job.

DSCF0652.sized.jpg
 
The hulls on Matts boat are at the end of the bunks and no way of getting a lifting block under the hull. We think that lifting under the bridge deck might be "iffy".

The flat bottom or V hulls are easy to lift by comparison to the cats.

How much room between the trailer frame and the bottom of the boat-I figured about 8"--if so, a scissor jack can get in there--and lift directly on the frame and a block which is contoured to match the hull (with step cutting with a router).

Do not take a chance of hurting yourself or damaging the boat. I always jack from a position where if the boat fell, it would not hurt me. I always put in cribbing before crawling under to paint. I trust cribbing more than jack stands. I have seen jack stands fail. They are not made for taking the full weight of the boat, which should be taken on the keel or at least the flat bottom of the boat.
 
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