Importance of 4x4 or AWD or Locking Diff at boat launch?

We must have launched and retrieved Journey On (a 25 C-Dory) and its predecessors at 1000 different launch ramps, all with 2 wheel drive (the rear wheels.) Some ramps have been wonderful (Marina del Rey, etc.) and some have been sketchy (Spanish, Ontario; Ventura, etc.)

A few years ago I bought a new Ford F250 with Judy really, really eager to get something different from the '63 Chevvy. So I could get anything I wanted: diesel, 4 wheel drive, anything. In summary I got a 2 wheel drive because it had worked for me. And I've never been stuck even in Spanish, Ontario, which was dirt. I've had to wait for the tide at Ventura because it's been slippery, though they've now put in a new ramp.

I've also bought a few trucks with limited slip differential. In both cases, the limited slip went away in a couple of years and I found out that if you were slow and gentle, a normal diff worked.

So now I've got a truck that doesn't have a lot of extras such as the transfer case, extra driveshaft and a solid front axle. I've saved on the new price and maintenance. I'm here to testify that 2 wheel drive works. However if you have or want a 4 wheeler, use/get it and God bless you.

As for the diesel, I couldn't see paying $5000 extra for something that gets used for only 3 months out of the year. I got gas and it's a great motor. I do shift down on grades, though.

Boris
 
Bill and Sherry, your comment of needing a big honkin 4x4 reminds me of my dad's new at the time 1976 F-250 4x4. I was just a teenager back then but I remember how proud I was for our family to have this truck. It looked like it could pull a house. It was tall, lots of ground clearance and with great off-road tires. As awesome as the truck looked, it had an open rear differential and would spin one of its rear tires on ice or slick snow even when on a flat parking lot. Cars and 2wd truck performed better than my dad's truck unless you put the truck into 4wd. I also remember going to a demolition derby on a dirt track and was amazed to see a 2wd Chevy truck chain up and drag the disabled and non running large and heavy cars off the dirt track. It was obvious the Chevy had a limited-slip rear differential. I could see both of its rear tires spinning and throwing dirt but it easily performed it duty. I am not saying Chevy is better than Ford here but that the performance of a truck is greatly enhanced with a limited-slip rear differential.

I would still recommend that you buy a 4wd for peace of mind. You don't want to regret a purchase, have to sell and do it over again.

There have been some good points made by others about gravel ramps, steep ramps and slick algae at low tide. Better safe than sorry.
 
Thanks for all the helpful replies. I have a 2wd Silverado for work and lately found myself unable to get up a steep gravel driveway and often find myself slipping around on wet pavement or wet grass. I do realize that the empty bed plays a big part of this but when sliding backwards on that gravel hill I was very glad that I was not at a boat ramp. I think that I'm nervous enough about launching to want every aid possible.
 
BillE":24w0lrdc said:
OK, thanks everybody for telling me what I didn't want to hear! I need a big honkin' 4x4. ; >
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4WD is expensive, close to half of what I paid for my C-Dory22. Resale value aside (I don’t resell), 4WD approaches a $10K difference ($4600 for 4WD vs. 2WD Dodge 1500, $4000 Ford estimates additional fuel costs (can’t find for Dodge), also additional insurance, registration and maintenance) over the life of the vehicle. If being able to retrieve your boat under more adverse conditions is worth it to you, then it is worth It. If you don’t need 4WD for other reasons (I do) and are willing to wait for higher tides and/or launch at better ramps (also carry a $20 tow rope, $30 “come-along”, carry some sand, buy mud and snow tires just in case), then you’ll likely be fine. LSD is usually about a $400 option and can also help. People with boats launched and retrieved long before 4WD was so ubiquitous. That said, pushing a button for 4WD and moving forward when my rear wheels are slipping is definitely a pleasing feeling, something I experienced just yesterday moving up an icy hill.
 
WEll it all depends. I know its a theme of mine but it does depend. If you are living in the north east or northwest where tide change is 5 to 14 ft in a day then yes you are going to need 4x4 once in a while if pulling on low tides and on steep ramp. If on the other hand you live in fl., where tides are 1 to 2 ft and ramps are not as deep, then you will not need it as much. If you are launching at lakes a lot with no tide then again not so much use for 4x4. And a lot depends on the size of your truck compared to your boat. Small truck or suv is going to need more power. More traction is a good substitute for power, sometimes.

So some of the work arounds in high tide exchange areas are 1) retrieve at high tide 2) 4x4. 3) sling launch.

So I have been towing small to midsize boats most of my life. I have launched on dry flat ramps and I have backed down on the side of a steep ramp in the snow and slip half way. Lots of launching in rivers off the sand or rocky beaches. Lakes with and with out ramps. Some with such shallow slopes you would drive 100 yards in the water to get deep enough to float the boat.

That all said I drive a 4x4. Hell of the 3 vehicles we own right now 3 are 4x4s or AWD. My wife does not believe trucks should be sold with out 4x4 or AWD. A 2 wheel drive truck is a car. That said I hardly use my 4x4 to launch or retrieve boats. When I need it I have it but that is mostly at low tide or steep ramps. My 27 weights a lot. 10k lbs or so. When I had a 22 I used my ford ranger first. 4x4 v6 did the job, which is a example of tration making up for power.. When we got a f350 v10 I do not think I ever used the 4x4 with the 22 cdory. I would use LOW range a lot but not with the hubs locked in. Even today with the 350 v10 I hardly use 4x4, but I have it when I need it.

So what do my ramblings mean to you? your truck has the power to tow your boat with ease if you have traction. What are your every day launch conditions? lakes? river? hard ramps? beaches? You sound like a concrete ramp guy, no shame in that. You live in tenn. right? So lakes and rivers and a few trips to the southern salt water. Maybe a once a year trip to the PNW where you will launch once and retrieve once so you can pick you tides. Sound about right?

So I would stick to your truck for now and spend time and energy learning to tow and launch at you local ramp and not jump the gun on buying a new truck you most likely dont need 99% of the time. I grew up towing stuff. Boats, trailers, low boys etc etc . My wife is the same with camping trailers. If you have not had this type of experience in life I would find some one that has and ask them for lessons. Find a small boat trailer or even a cargo trailer and a empty parking lot and go learn. Or go to a truck driving school and ask for a one or two day class. Telling then what you are looking to do and what your experience is.

Just a little food for thought other then " I have one you should too" . I have 3 4x4s and use them all the time. that has nothing to do with your use.
 
starcrafttom":1w083qrj said:
use LOW range a lot but not with the hubs locked in.
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Lots of good advise Tom but I have to disagree here. As a mechanic every manufacturer I have dealt with warn you not to do this as it puts a tremendous amount of torque strain on a single drive shaft/set of U joints instead of being divided between front AND rear shafts.


Funny story about locking hubs - not many trucks have them any more but my 1977 Landcruiser had them so one day I decided to be a good maintenance conscious owner and take them apart, clean them, grease them and put back together. Well the next time I needed them was a bitterly cold morning - put it in 4wd, got out and locked the hubs then went to drive away. Only the rear wheels were spinning. Sometimes the truck would have to move a few inches for the hubs to engage, but even rocking back and forth a bit did nothing. Well after pondering the situation in the cold and dark for a while I came to the conclusion that the grease I had put on the inner workings was the culprit. Put a Colman lantern under each hub to warm them up enough for the gears to engage. After work that day I brought my truck in the shop, took hubs apart again, cleaned all the grease off and applied a lighter lubricant! We live and learn from our mistakes(I should be a genius by now!!).

Regards,

Rob
 
Hi Bill and Sherry!
As always, you are getting a lot of very thoughtful and sensible advice on this forum from folks who have ‘been there, done that’ on the subject of trailering/launching your CD25.

Although I don’t disagree with a single poster, overall I fear our tone here might implant a fear in you guys that hauling around and launching/loading a 25 ft boat might be more challenging and scary than it really is.

Highlight the POSITIVES:
You can trailer your boat very conservatively at 60MPH from TN anywhere in the continent without a state permit, 24/7.

With a single driver, you can easily trailer 500 miles a day, stay in state parks for $30 a night (or less at RV friendly WalMarts etc). Under 3 days you will drive and launch at Key West, $40/night at 4-star resort marina with heated pool (for stays over 28 nights). 2 days to the Chesapeake for a month exploring there. 2 days to the Erie Canal system and Lake Champlain, or the Trent-Severn (or better yet, Inner Small Craft Passage of Georgian Bay and the 30,000 Islands). 2 days to explore the lower St John, 3 to the Everglades. 6 days trailering to the San Juans.

A very competent used truck is very cheap and easy to find compared to a good used CD25…our 2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax diesel NADA value with 87,000 miles is now only worth $12,000 (but way overkill for your purposes). 4WD was not available that year with that tow package, but it has Limited Slip Diff and we have scooted up marginal ramps with just a bit of drama with the TomCat in Heavy Cruise mode (always with an audience).

So, I’m posting that we load a TC255 on slippery (but not dirt or gravel or Pacific) ramps with a ¾ ton diesel pickup with Limited Slip Diff but not 4WD with no real problems to date. I defer to Harvey re the Left Coast.

And we have launched at an unknown ramp in TN that was the steepest we have ever seen in the black of night where I got so twisted I broke the centering cage board, and broke my own rule of never yelling at your spouse when boating. In retrospect, it’s only a 2x4 with carpet on it, and I still haven’t replaced it yet.

A good Float-On trailer with aluminum I-beams and EOH brakes was our BEST MOD EVER. Pay the upgrade for Goodyear Endurance ST trailer tires. I don’t remember whether you guys already have a trailer.

You NEVER need to fool with tire pressure to launch or recover a properly loaded trailer and tow truck. Those are urban legends. A Heavy Load (over 8,000#) deserves a wireless trailer tire monitoring system ($250 or less) which will pay for itself the very first time need it, or you pick up a nail (happened to us and C-Otter).

We fear you guys are over-worrying about what you are capable of doing…and learning to do. Almost all boaters are like you…helpful, friendly, willing to help in any way possible, willing to give you a ride to the nearest West Marine or diesel stop, loan you a gas filter, back it down the ramp if the spouse gets twisted, etc etc.

An older F150 with the specs for a 9200# tow rating exceeds your needs (and you all thought I was a GMC guy).
Continue your careful research. But you’re not getting younger, and you can’t know how many ‘good’ years of life you have left now. So listen to all on this most wonderful forum, but don’t wait too long. You have a great trailer boat to trailer to the ends of the continent…then launch and you won’t care if you’re only getting 3MPG, BECAUSE THE TRUCK WAS GETTING 14MPG!

See you at Hontoon, you are always welcome on Cat O’ Mine!

PS the Nashville BBQ and welcome you gave our group on the Cumberland/Tennessee river adventure is the kind of stuff lifelong memories are made of…we’ll never forget it!

John
 
Right on Harvey, Simple answer here. 4X4, Even here in the Desert, Subaru 4X4 and a F-350 4X4 makes things so much easier.

Really helpful in the Sequim Snow Eh?
 
starcrafttom":107pkpt2 said:
... If you are launching at lakes a lot with no tide then again not so much use for 4x4...
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Some of the inland lakes that I have boated on have the steepest ramps I have experienced. Also, even if you have a strap and a come along, there may not be anyone/thing around for you to hook it to.

Where I got into trouble was a marina ramp. But it was Oct and the "season" was over. There was no one around the whole time we were there, so we had to sort out our problem on our own.
 
Just a quick address ref the added costs for a 4 x 4. I doubt that they are all that much. We have seen as much as 22 mpg on the Yukon XL. on the highway. Our average since purchase 90,000 miles ago is over 16 mpg. Today, I had the first service on both differentials, and the transfer case, plus the first set of brakes--total bill was $1000. Actually the truck has been towed another 20,000 miles behind the RV---There it had a proportionate braking system. So over 100,000 miles on brakes, and gear case services.

I do often carry a come- a-long--and the rope is always in a truck. As is an axe, shovel and in season a chain saw. along with survival gear, food and water for a couple of days at least--usually water for a week. ..

Real trucks have tow eyes in the front, so you can pull them out!
 
Dreamer":3uo6nv4o said:
Right on Harvey, Simple answer here. 4X4, Even here in the Desert, Subaru 4X4 and a F-350 4X4 makes things so much easier.

Really helpful in the Sequim Snow Eh?
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Roger, Right you are. I have had a total of over 30 inches on my driveway since the Super Bowl, (20 inches in the 24 hours after the Superbowl Sunday. I have been shoveling driveways every day for the last 4 days. AND we may not be done yet.

The 4WD was the only way to get around for the first few days, and if you are in the non-main streets, it still is. First day above freezing today for Sequim since SB Sunday, or actually a few days before that.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

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I didn’t mention my Chesapeake waterman father’s other trick for launching and retrieving on slippery ramps. Chains! I always carry them, but primarily use them in deep snow, and sometimes mud since I already have 4WD and agressive tires. If you don’t have 4WD, slipping on a set of chains will give you some major traction under nearly any circumstances, likely better than 4WD with poor tires. You need to make a judgement and put them on just before you enter the water (unless you carry scuba gear too ;>) Take them off as you exit and have good traction. I’ve also seen 2WD trucks use them getting out of steep hollers on muddy roads when I used to go caving in TN. They work! If you can afford 4WD and are contemplating buying a new or used truck, it will likely be worth the extra cost, but I wouldn’t spend so much money for something that you can get around with a little planning and extra effort unless you can really afford it and don’t want to plan and take the extra effort.
 
Some of the inland lakes that I have boated on have the steepest ramps I have experienced
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Same here. most of the lakes in the sierras are very steep banked. Some of the ramps , because of draw down thru the year, are 200ft long and drop 100 ft or more. My point is that if you have a enough power then you do not need to worry about 4x4 if the ramp is dry. As compared to salt water ramps with wet ramps and growth on the ramp. that is why if you have a marginal truck, like my ford ranger, 4x4 giving you more traction is a good thing. My v10 f350 over comes that with just power. And I got to tell you I can slow crawl up a tree with the boat. down side is the fuel cost. I had to run over to eastern Oregon to pick up my folks when their car blow. I headed over empty and got 8.7 mpg average. That was over two mountain ranges. I loaded up the folks and put their suv on a rental car trailer. On the way pack over the same two ranges I got 8.2 mpg average????? So rule one is to always take something with me because its not saving me money going empty
 
So i used to pull my boat with a big 1986 3500 dually. It was two wheel drive with an open diff. Depending on the tide, i'd get into pickles at the launching ramp where i was just spinning out and burning rubber. After I made my wife and mom sit on the rear fenders to get some weight on the back end for traction (aslo recruited some strangers to stand in the bed) I went shopping for a 4x4...with a locking rear diff.
 
Know your ramps...and you'll know your answer. If going all over the place get 4WD for piece of mind and move forward.

I tow a Glacier Bay 2670 (about 9K# loaded - think Tomcat) on a Tundra 2WD. Explicitly these means I won't be driving to Denver any time soon...but can hit the entire state of FL.

Never had any issues - high or low tide. There's a ramp I go to that on a southern wind it will catch all sorts of weeds (like 6" worth). It's a hassle but I just have to move the stuff. I do have a tow strap - just in case; never needed it (except for the neighbor teens who keep backing into my mailbox - I pull the mailbox straight).

Trick my buddy showed me was if you just need a nudge to get moving is to help the truck up by powering up on the engines. Just don't get crazy on the throttle. Otherwise you'll have a boat in the bed.

I would say in general (emphasis on general) most FL ramps are good enough for 2wd.
 
I was in Portland Oregon a couple of days ago doing a sea trial on a 25 with some new Garmin electronics. Just for kicks, checking on the plotter we did a look up for the local tides. Wow, was it big. So we are in Portland Oregon, about 100 miles up the Columbia River from the Pacific Ocean. The tide was just at 3 feet. That was impressive, since Portland tides are generally less that 2 feet. The ramps there are all pretty gentle sloped and rarely have any growth on them. Our typical tides run in the lows at 5-6 feet and the highs can run up to 10 - 14 feet and our, (PNW, Puget Sound, and North from here), rarely do not have slickery stuff. I might not need the 4WD but I don't notice because it is on, and I just drive out.

As noted, Know your ramps, and I might add, know your tow vehicle.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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jbdba01":1lcv2z3l said:
Trick my buddy showed me was if you just need a nudge to get moving is to help the truck up by powering up on the engines. Just don't get crazy on the throttle. Otherwise you'll have a boat in the bed.
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I launch and retrieve solo, but I can't wait to try this. Maybe it will even help with gas mileage on the way home. :wink

Mark
 
jbdba01":2n23bups said:
Trick my buddy showed me was if you just need a nudge to get moving is to help the truck up by powering up on the engines.
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I watched Bass Tournament boats coming in one day. At a double ramp I think 20 or more boats pulled out in as many minutes. A driver would back a trailer in - the boat would power load on and the driver would start pulling out. Boat captain would leave prop engaged until almost out of water then shut down and trim up. I assumed that was to keep boat from sliding back on the bunks until full weight of boat was out of water. A sight to see and never forgot.

I don't power load as it is frowned upon at most ramps but I leave the front of my bunks out of the water and try to gage how much way I need to carry the bow to the stop or close enough. Then hit the brakes in the parking lot and snug up the winch.

Regards,

Rob
 
Marco Flamingo":x91ijbdm said:
jbdba01":x91ijbdm said:
Trick my buddy showed me was if you just need a nudge to get moving is to help the truck up by powering up on the engines. Just don't get crazy on the throttle. Otherwise you'll have a boat in the bed.
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I launch and retrieve solo, but I can't wait to try this. Maybe it will even help with gas mileage on the way home. :wink

Mark
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Mark, :lol: :lol: :lol: I looked at that and wondered if they usually just idle up the ramp (Those big high torque Diesels) then figured I must know something they didn't, push on the gas peddle. Well, then you figured it out. How fast does the squirrel have to be to be coming out of both holes at the same time?

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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