I’m looking at a 1999 22’ C-Dory Cruiser for sale with a 1999 50hp Honda 4-stroke outboard. Seller says it cruises at 12-14 mph. Strikes me as a small motor for this boat? I’m obviously not looking for a fast boat but what am I giving up with a smaller motor like this on a 22-footer, if anything? [/list]
Is 50hp too small for a 22’ Cruiser?
- Thread starter Roamad
- Start date
This comes up regularly here. Most will tell you that a single 50hp motor may get you up on plane (barely) on a light boat. The early boats were designed for a 75hp 2 stroke motor. As time went on, the 90hp 4-stroke motor became the motor of choice. You'll see people now putting (or repowering with) 115hp on the 22.
So, is the 50 enough? If you don't want the capability of running faster, then you can certainly get by on 50hp. There used to be some dealers that sold them that way. My opinion (and it's a free opinion): if you think you will never want to run fast, the 50hp may suit you. Keep in mind that the boat is the most inefficient in that 7 to 12 knot range where it is trying to get on plane. More horsepower will get you over that range and into the faster cruise the boat was designed for. My further opinion is that 6 knots or so is pretty fuel efficient... but a 25hp motor would move that boat at that speed. Plenty of smaller sailboats that use a 10hp motor that works fine for their hull speed.
If it gets you into C-Dory ownership, it is far better than not having a boat; but you are giving up capability with that 50hp motor. Buy the boat and add another 50hp to it (many are equipped that way with twins). Or, buy the boat, sell or trade the 50 and get a 90 or 115. Options.
Good luck with the decisions.
So, is the 50 enough? If you don't want the capability of running faster, then you can certainly get by on 50hp. There used to be some dealers that sold them that way. My opinion (and it's a free opinion): if you think you will never want to run fast, the 50hp may suit you. Keep in mind that the boat is the most inefficient in that 7 to 12 knot range where it is trying to get on plane. More horsepower will get you over that range and into the faster cruise the boat was designed for. My further opinion is that 6 knots or so is pretty fuel efficient... but a 25hp motor would move that boat at that speed. Plenty of smaller sailboats that use a 10hp motor that works fine for their hull speed.
If it gets you into C-Dory ownership, it is far better than not having a boat; but you are giving up capability with that 50hp motor. Buy the boat and add another 50hp to it (many are equipped that way with twins). Or, buy the boat, sell or trade the 50 and get a 90 or 115. Options.
Good luck with the decisions.
It shouldn’t be a problem provided you go in with your eyes wide open. You need to understand you will basically have a small trawler which will not be able to operate in the speed range for which it was primarily designed. You will also need to understand that this Motor will have a negative impact on resale value, and likely make it more difficult to sell. If you can accept running the boat at hull speed or “slow cruise “ speed you would certainly be safe and the motor would not prematurely wear out. You would have plenty of reserve power to overcome wind and currents. If on the other hand you habitually pushed it to its limits, you would be operating the boat in the transition phase between trolling and planing, which puts tremendous strain on the engine and creates a huge wake.
For the right user this might be a way to get into a boat they could not otherwise a Ford, or which might not otherwise be available right now.
Good luck with whatever you decide
For the right user this might be a way to get into a boat they could not otherwise a Ford, or which might not otherwise be available right now.
Good luck with whatever you decide
In reading your post more carefully, a potential red flag becomes apparent: the seller says the boat cruises in ~12-14 mph range. They are presumably saying that's how they've used the boat/motor, which is very concerning depending on motor hours.
I had a 22 Angler with twin 40's with Permatrims. In a lightly-loaded, calm water experiment I raised one out of the water and ran at WOT on just the other. It planed the boat and achieved 17 MPH, but I could feel and hear it putting tremendous strain on the motor. I wouldn't want to run a Honda 50 that way for very long.
Cheers! Mike
I had a 22 Angler with twin 40's with Permatrims. In a lightly-loaded, calm water experiment I raised one out of the water and ran at WOT on just the other. It planed the boat and achieved 17 MPH, but I could feel and hear it putting tremendous strain on the motor. I wouldn't want to run a Honda 50 that way for very long.
Cheers! Mike
You asked if you were missing anything. OH yea .. . . . :shock: the other 50 hp OB. Jim was right on, as were others but he said it first. Buy the boat, and find another 50 to add to it. You will not regret that.
BUT FIRST, be sure and have that singe 50 mechanically checked. Personally, I sincerely doubt they cruised a single 50 at "it cruises at 12-14 mph". I run twin 40's, same engines for the last 16 years, and I have tried to run on a single. When the boat was light, and with careful trimming and ballast adjustment it would get up on plane, but that is working that OB very hard. It will come up on plane at about 9-10 knots and I don't think I ever got 12 knots water speed out of it. If I had to do a "get home" on a single it would be on slow cruise and with the tidal current if possible. The single will easy do 5 knots (hull speed for the 22) all day long, planing, not so much. Five knots, that is my favorite cruising speed.
All the best.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
BUT FIRST, be sure and have that singe 50 mechanically checked. Personally, I sincerely doubt they cruised a single 50 at "it cruises at 12-14 mph". I run twin 40's, same engines for the last 16 years, and I have tried to run on a single. When the boat was light, and with careful trimming and ballast adjustment it would get up on plane, but that is working that OB very hard. It will come up on plane at about 9-10 knots and I don't think I ever got 12 knots water speed out of it. If I had to do a "get home" on a single it would be on slow cruise and with the tidal current if possible. The single will easy do 5 knots (hull speed for the 22) all day long, planing, not so much. Five knots, that is my favorite cruising speed.
All the best.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Salmon Fisher
Member
That boat you're looking at is in Sequim, WA?
You are in CA it looks like.
I would wait or look at the boat in SC, which looks like a very nice set up that will do what you want it to do. It will cost about the same after you travel and pick her up or have her transported.
Just my MTCW.
Good luck to you.
You are in CA it looks like.
I would wait or look at the boat in SC, which looks like a very nice set up that will do what you want it to do. It will cost about the same after you travel and pick her up or have her transported.
Just my MTCW.
Good luck to you.
Here is the difference between using a twin which is propped for the two motors, and a single outboard which has the proper propeller for planing the boat. The single outboard will have a lower pitched prop, probably with a little more surface area. This is why it can relatively efficiently spin up to rated wide open throttle and then achieve planing speeds.
If you are gong to regularly try and run a boat with twin outboards, on a single motor, then you want to have a set of props of the appropriate pitch for that use. You will have to change the prop when running on the single...not always easy to do at sea.
thataway":14cup0q7 said:
I know there are guys who run a single (of the twins) for fuel economy a lot more than I do. I have done it occasionally, but not often or regularly. As for changing props to do so, at sea or anywhere because I am planning on running the single --> NOT happening. Maybe Jay or Andy or someone else might do that (and I know Andy runs a single considerably). I just don't think I have ever heard him mention that he changed props anywhere to do so.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
To add to the other comments... I think it also depends on where you intend to be boating. If strictly fresh water lakes, then no big deal as long as you're OK going slow. If you're going to regularly be in areas when you might be dealing with currents or a lot of tide action or so on - inlets, off shore, etc - being underpowered can become a safety issue.
Perhaps, but a lot of boaters travel all of the time at hull speed or less (less than 8 knots --which is actually over hull speed in a C Dory. Consider sailboats, and "trawlers".
There are people who purposefully run the C Dory at displacement speeds. For example the 25 cruise ship which was a rental in Florida, I believe had a single 50.
Safety becomes an issue if you cannot make way agains wind and current. Outrunning a storm? Not that easy to do, even where we have plenty of warning. Having steerage way is important, but less than 5 hp will give steerage way in a C Dory.
I have never changed props to run just one of the twin 40 motors, but I do now carry one of the old stainless 12x10 pitch props, which would definitely get me on plane with just one of the newer twin 60’s if the need arose. I wouldn’t try to change it in rough water, but either the 40hp or 60 hp gives plenty of boat control in most all conditions to make for protected waters to do a change out & for sure better than a 5 to 15hp kicker.. This is a quote from our 2016 Yukon River trip, which was the only time I got the CD22 on plane with one 40 hp motor. “I experimented some today with running only one of the twin forty hp motors wide open & was surprised to find with still having 8 gal of water & 20 gallons of fuel aboard & lots of other gear at a elevation of 1250 feet, we could maintain 12.5 mph speed with current of 6.5 mph for a total 18.5 mph downstream & 6 mph upstream at 5200 rpm with the stainless 12 inch x 10 pitch prop”. Over a long period of time running wide open like this would shorten the life of the motor, but as long as it’s in the WOT designed rpm range of the motor it is still within acceptable use range. I prefer for the long term longevity of my motors not to run them over 80% of their max WOT design for any extended time period. With the power of the 60’s it’s seldom over 70%.
As Harvey indicated we have run considerably on one of the twin 40’s to extend our fuel for longer distances between fuel stops. We never knew until the addition of the 60 hp motors with nmea 2000 fuel burn information just how much it saved us. It is considerably with a difference of 2 smpg. With running both of the 60 hp motors at 5.6 knots or 6 smpg it is 6.4 smpg. With one motor running & the other still down, but off & in neutral it will be 8.4 smpg. Along with the primary goal of increasing cruise range it’s nice to know at todays fuel prices that’s a substantial savings in fuel cost. Also there is a huge reduction on engine run hours. With all the time we spent at displacement speed on our old twin 40’s, their hours when traded in would have been over 4000 hours instead of 2400 hours if we had been running a single or always powered up with both twins.
Jay
As Harvey indicated we have run considerably on one of the twin 40’s to extend our fuel for longer distances between fuel stops. We never knew until the addition of the 60 hp motors with nmea 2000 fuel burn information just how much it saved us. It is considerably with a difference of 2 smpg. With running both of the 60 hp motors at 5.6 knots or 6 smpg it is 6.4 smpg. With one motor running & the other still down, but off & in neutral it will be 8.4 smpg. Along with the primary goal of increasing cruise range it’s nice to know at todays fuel prices that’s a substantial savings in fuel cost. Also there is a huge reduction on engine run hours. With all the time we spent at displacement speed on our old twin 40’s, their hours when traded in would have been over 4000 hours instead of 2400 hours if we had been running a single or always powered up with both twins.
Jay
Roamed, here’s some info more in line with your posted question than my first post here.
The 50 hp Honda, run on the higher end of its rpm available, gives it the extra 10 hp over the 40 hp of the same vintage, so with a properly pitched prop & very moderate loads it will have the ability to plane at a ok fuel use rate at low altitude. The planing speed needs to be above 12 smpg & I believe that’s achieve-able, but the motors life will most likely be somewhat reduced by the higher rpm running to get the extra hp out of the 50 hp Honda in so doing. Personally, I could have lived with these speed limitation in my travels, but not the even more hp drop from higher altitude or higher hp needed for extra weight, that could make this a displacement speed only boat. If your boatings plans include areas of higher altitude or longer cruising destinations, involving the need for extra weight, or fishing with friends & still wanting to do all this & go at a reasonable on plane speed, then 50 hp will not be enough & as Jim mentioned, much less hp just as good.
I actually was considering a 50 hp diesel for repowering instead of my twin 60’s if they would have been ok’d for USA use. The low torgue power & greatly increased fuel range with just enough power to meet my needs was enticing, but the use of a 50 hp gas with it’s high rpm needed to actually make 50 useable hp is not at all.
Jay
.
The 50 hp Honda, run on the higher end of its rpm available, gives it the extra 10 hp over the 40 hp of the same vintage, so with a properly pitched prop & very moderate loads it will have the ability to plane at a ok fuel use rate at low altitude. The planing speed needs to be above 12 smpg & I believe that’s achieve-able, but the motors life will most likely be somewhat reduced by the higher rpm running to get the extra hp out of the 50 hp Honda in so doing. Personally, I could have lived with these speed limitation in my travels, but not the even more hp drop from higher altitude or higher hp needed for extra weight, that could make this a displacement speed only boat. If your boatings plans include areas of higher altitude or longer cruising destinations, involving the need for extra weight, or fishing with friends & still wanting to do all this & go at a reasonable on plane speed, then 50 hp will not be enough & as Jim mentioned, much less hp just as good.
I actually was considering a 50 hp diesel for repowering instead of my twin 60’s if they would have been ok’d for USA use. The low torgue power & greatly increased fuel range with just enough power to meet my needs was enticing, but the use of a 50 hp gas with it’s high rpm needed to actually make 50 useable hp is not at all.
Jay
.
South of Heaven
New member
Seems very underpowered. But if you can negotiate that into your purchase price then maybe it's not a deal breaker.
How is the rest of the boat? Electronics, canvas, radar etc? If you love boat and it's well equipped then maybe the motor can be "lived with" for now and then upgraded in a year or 2.
How is the rest of the boat? Electronics, canvas, radar etc? If you love boat and it's well equipped then maybe the motor can be "lived with" for now and then upgraded in a year or 2.
NOTE Slight off topic but . . . . I go anyway. (sorry OP).
Jay Said:
Jay, Thank you for that confirmation. And wow, you do keep good records. I have to admit to most of my slow cruising is with twins down and running. Your info may help in changing my cruising habit. (I like the twins running for control, but I like your fuel use records better. Thank you.
Now back to to is that question. Is that boat underpowered? In my opinion, (and it's worth to you what you paid for it) I would say definitely YES For use anywhere but on small to medium size lakes. Wind and Fetch would be your enemies.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Jay Said:
Jay, Thank you for that confirmation. And wow, you do keep good records. I have to admit to most of my slow cruising is with twins down and running. Your info may help in changing my cruising habit. (I like the twins running for control, but I like your fuel use records better. Thank you.
Now back to to is that question. Is that boat underpowered? In my opinion, (and it's worth to you what you paid for it) I would say definitely YES For use anywhere but on small to medium size lakes. Wind and Fetch would be your enemies.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon