Is my boat price to high?

It's a bit of a Catch 22... if you go into the grocery store and say, "I'll give you a dollar for that gallon of milk," you'll probably get tossed out. Everyone knows with most new big ticket items (cars, RVs, houses, boats) that there is some negotiation on the price. People expect the price to come down on those items. So, if the seller of a used item doesn't want to dicker (and there are plenty of people who really dislike that "game"), they will generally put "Price Firm" in the ad. Yet, potential buyers will still offer less, hoping that the seller will cave.

That doesn't mean the seller isn't serious about selling. It just means they have set a firm price. If a buyer doesn't want to pay that price, they can move on. In the meantime, the value of the item generally decreases and any costs of ownership (insurance, storage, maintenance) continues.

When a buyer offers considerably less than the asking price, and especially if the seller has stated that the price is not negotiable, one could make the argument that the buyer isn't really serious about buying. It works both ways.

For every product, there is a price where it will sell. Price it low (well below market value) and it will go fast; price it fair and it may take a while, but a knowledgeable buyer may come along. Price it too high (expecting to drop the price), and you're in "the game."

Seems to me that the best solution is to communicate, both buyer and seller. C-Dorys are just not a typical product.
 
Hello Sea Beagle,

I have a 16ft CD. Not interested in selling it, but always curious what it might be worth. I see there's a 16ft CD in the Los Angeles area listed for sale on the C-Brat home page for half your asking price. I thought of buying it to bolt to my boat to create a new style 16 ft C-Dory Catamaran...

These are hard times. Sadly. many people who raked in money in the boom years now see the virtue of unloading their toys, especially the big ones parked in their garage or drive way. Other people with better luck and fortunes see an opportunity to buy a bigger used boat of their dreams, but then need to price their 16 ft CD to unload it fast.

The prior realtor comment by Reel Salty is correct. It's not priced "right" until you start getting cash bids close to your ask so you can seriously negotiate a compromise price to close the deal. If I had no cash bid close to my asking price for along time, I would not keep waiting for the perfect buyer to eventually come to my home with my asking price as cash in hand. (Granted, warmer weather and approaching summer may bring out more buyers.) The "right price" relates to the factors that Reel Salty mentioned. Sadly, it has little relationship to your cost in the boat or your good maintenance of it. Sea Wolf's comments also resonated as true for me. A well kept boat like yours however, will certainly sell before a more neglected one at the right price.

Think of this frustrating exercise like managing a stock investment. Say you bought a stock that has sunk in value. If you wait for the price to come back to your cost or "close enough" before selling, then you may find instead that the stock price keeps moving lower or even to zero. Remember the old hunter's saying "A bird in hand is better than two in the bush." Will your boat sell easier now or when gas rises to $5.00 plus per gallon, maybe by this summer?

I am not sure it is wise to try to sell it on the west coast. California taxes cars and I believe boats brought in from out of state more harshly than boats registered in CA that are sold used.

Know who you are NOT going to sell it to... like macho guys who want twin 200 hp outboards and space to take four friends fishing along with a giant beer cooler, or to tow water skiers and speed rafts in summer. The 16 ft CD has a weight limit that frustrates many uses of a boat. After buying it, I had to learn what I could not do on the boat, and the weight tipping point that prevents it from planing. I'm sure you did too. Know how to screen callers so you won't waste your time and get depressed by rejection.

The 16 ft CD is perfect for serious fishermen who like to fish alone a couple days at a time on the water (that's me). Some fishermen really seek to keep their hot spots secret from other fishermen and will only take one trusted fishing buddy to those secret locations.

As a solo fisherman at sea, I appreciate the safety aspect of the boat's low center of gravity, high gunwale, and swim step. I'm less likely to fall overboard but if I do, easier to get back on board.

Get some creative input on marketing you boat's benefits rather than just describing its features.

You certainly highlight the pilot house hard top cabin but what benefit does this feature offer... obviously protection from wind, spray, weather, sun, etc. In rivers with Asian Silver Carp, it's your shield against a fish in the face! Less obviously a hard roof lets you bolt stuff to it... a radar dome, flood lights, GPS antenna, maybe even a kayak or luggage rack,... look at my boat's roof. I created extra storage space under the Bimini canvas on top of my roof. See photo at http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php

Tell potential buyers that C-Dory's durable construction and classic design never goes out of style. Show buyers this web site so they know there is a "Cult of the C-Dory" and group gatherings that other brands of 16 foot boats don't offer. As a new boat owner in 2003, my wife and I were very grateful to join a group of larger C-Dories to cross the wide ocean to the far side of the world (okay, to Catalina island, 32 miles from our departure marina) for our first time at sea. My wife would never have gone without the other boats riding shotgun.

Think of a 16 ft C-Dory's uses in your area or the central U.S. rivers that were not your uses of the boat. Seek to advertise on web sites or newsletters or at meetings of clubs for likely users... fishing clubs, duck hunting clubs, diving clubs, maybe even bird watching clubs. Focus on retirees who have spare money rather than young families struggling to make ends meet and cutting out pleasure spending. Are there retiree-only communities in your area?? Emphasize to them how easy it is to launch and retrieve a 16 foot CD by oneself.

The bad economy and high gas prices may actually add to your marketing advantage. Promote the cost advantages of the 16ft CD... a big boat feel that you can camp out on, but that sips gas on the water. Get the gallons consumed per mile or per hour at cruising speed for larger boats and compare their cost of gas for a day on the water to your boat. I belong to an ocean fishing club. The guys with big ocean fishing yachts use to laugh at me. Now I have the last laugh. I bug my friends by telling them I can go the 32 miles to Catalina Island at 18 ~ 21 knots per hour on just 6~7 gallons of gas, or less. They burn that much gas just getting their big fishing yachts out of Marina del Rey into the ocean before even setting course to Catalina! Some guys who can no longer afford to take their marlin fishing blue water big boats out often due to fuel costs have asked me to lend them my boat for their near shore bass or halibut fishing (No way!)

Tell interested parties that the tow weight of your boat (at least without the monkey bars... what was the purpose of that?) is under 3,000 lbs so it tows easily and legally behind a 6 cylinder vehicle like a minivan, and it does not need trailer brakes. I added brakes to my trailer when I bought the boat. After years of expensive brake service, had them removed. I don't miss them. My cost of brake service was high because I wash my boat at home after every ocean use, then put it in the garage. The brakes shoes held moisture and rusted away while sitting inside my garage!

Which brings me to the next cost advantage of your boat... a cost conscious buyer may appreciate that it can fit in a garage. (See my photo here for boat in garage and my tow vehicle:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php For disclosure, I had to put shorter, wider tires on my trailer and use a circular saw to shave about an inch off the garage header in the center. It may also fit in side yards where a larger boat will not go.

Explain to a buyer looking at used boats that the C-dory's construction gives it flotation with out stringers. This makes it easy to see if there is hull damage. A buyer can visibly inspect both sides of the hull in a 16 ft CD. Stringers can hide wood rot, mildew, dog pee and even illegal drugs.

Have a rubber mallet handy when meeting prospective buyers. Invite the buyer to tap the hull (gently) all over and compare the sound. Any spot with rot will sound different. The tap test isn't really necessary, but it will instill confidence in a buyer that he knows he has a solid hull on your boat. It also plants a psychological brain virus (like a computer virus). When they examine buying a competing used boat of a different brand that has sealed stringers, you will have planted a seed of fear in their mind that they can't know that the hull of that used boat is as sound as yours.

I would frankly like to trade up to a 22 ft Angler C-Dory without the bulk head. The cruiser bulkhead would get in the way of my fishing. (My wife has vetoed any upgrade!) I see many attractive 22 ft CDs at affordable asking-prices. I would guess that many can be negotiated down somewhat from their asking-price. If a 22 ft used CD costs only $10K ~ $15K more than your asking price then were I a buyer, I'd pay up for the larger C-Dory. Problem is, I'd also need to trade up to a house where I could store it for free at home. (I live on a hill side so no side yard.) I' would also have to trade up to a Jeep, pick up or SUV that can pull over 3,000 pounds. (I drive a minivan. Interestingly, tow capacity is as much about a vehicle's suspension as it is its horsepower.)

I honestly can't complain about keeping my existing car and having no boat storage cost. Like most families, I'm pinching pennies too. I also work hard and don't get to to use my boat as much as I wish. At least I don't feel as guilty as I would if I had bought a larger, more expensive boat that required a monthly storage fee.

If the potential buyer is thinking they need a 22 ft CD for its sealed cabin (bulkhead), that may be true if they are sleeping on it overnight in freezing weather. If not, then explain how your camper back turns the entire boat into a "cabin" that rivals the interior space of a 22 ft C-Dory Cruiser. I use a window defroster heater/fan that plugs into a cigarette lighter to warm my boat up at night. (They're sold on line.)

I am very very comfortable spending many nights in a row, alone anchored at night at Catalina island on my 16 ft CD cruiser. When not fishing, I will take my wife and two dogs on adventures where we tie up at a guest dock with access to the "civilized" comforts of life and a general store. We may shower and shop on shore, but we sleep and eat on board... my wife and I in the v-berth with a basenji between us and a sheep dog on top of us! Maybe that's too much information...

One last sales point. With the boat in my garage, when I want a REAL man-cave, I can go to my boat and listen to music or watch a movie on the DVD player. OK, my wife calls it my dog house... but we'll keep that just between us, okay?


Keith
C-Pup16 in Los Angeles
 
Wow, Keith, that was spectacular! :thup :thup Every 16 owner should print that out, laminate it, and keep it in their boat. Pull it out anytime you get the urge for a bigger boat.
 
Several great posts here, and I'll add my 2 cents as I'm in the market both to buy a used C-Dory 22 and sell a 88 Searay 268 Sundancer. I think the general problem is that too many sellers think their boat is worth more than what it really is. (And this is true rather you are selling boats, real estate, cars or whatever...) Ie, Supply and Demand. When pricing something to sell, I think you need to be looking at what other similar items have sold for, not what they are listed for. As a buyer, I wish sellers would put as much information up front as they can... Ie. a listing of all items on the boat along with photos from every angle and of every inch of the boat. I don't want to waste the time or give a seller a false impression that I'm interested by seeking out information that would have weeded the boat out of my search in the first place. As a seller, I accept that all the nice accessories I added to my boat, may be worth little to a prospective buyer. Also, just because I think it's like new, I would be foolish to think someone is going to pay me something very close to what they could buy a brand new boat for. Bottom line, it comes down to fairly pricing the item for a sale, and then having the right buyer come along. Colby
 
Simon,
At one time the C Dory did sell for what was paid for it. This took into account a very solid product, and inflation. For example the 1993 C Dory 22 I owned sold new for about $25,000, the second and 3rd owners each paid about $25,000. Each added something to the boat--including a new motor. I paid about $25,000, and sold it for a little less than that (mostly because I was concerned about the oil pump)--and it re sold fairly recently at a little less than that person paid for it.....

But--during the 2002 to 2007 era there as a flooding of the market with c Dories. Two companies went under, and warrantees were not honored. Combine that with the above comments about the economy--the boats are being offered at more than the selling prices often. I paid about $29,000 for a 2006 22, with a 90 HP Honda--and not a lot of other items except a 4" Garmin Chart plotter/sounder and Uniden radio. (Plus camper back and slant back)--if the boat had a tandem axel trailer, it would have brought more, if a windlass--more, if Radar, more, if a Wallas Stove, more---etc.

So keep looking--and you will find someone who will price a boat realistically for what it is.

This is unsolicited advice--but I always tell folks not to buy "Toys" on credit--buy them with cash, and then you are never under water.....
 
prosimedia":2fi7eteu said:
Thanks, Bob.

I appreciate your honest, transparent feedback. Yes, I will keep looking for the right boat, at the right price.

Simon
Click to expand...

Simon, keep in mind that the RIGHT boat is a decision YOU have to make based on your needs. The RIGHT price has to be RIGHT for both you and the seller. Generally, a good deal is one where the seller believes he/she sold it for a LITTLE too less than they should have and the buyer believes he/she paid a LITTLE too much than they should have.

That's about the RIGHT price. Good luck in your quest.!! :thup

Charlie
 
Seabeagle,
So far I don't recollect noticing that anyone has offered you a formula for pricing your vessel for sale.
Back in early 2004 I sold my 16' cruiser and trailer based on the following formula.

I took the price of the boat, main engine, kicker, trailer and equipment new in '99
subtracted 10% for the year 2000
subtracted 5% of the previous amount for the year 2001
subtracted 5% of the previous amount for the year 2002
subtracted 5% of the previous amount for the year 2003

I sold the vessel with no problem at that price and was able to explain to the purchaser how I came up with my asking price and he seemed to feel that it was a fair deal.

(I don't know how this formula will work for you, but give it a try and see how it comes out).

Quite frankly, since fewer C-Dorys are being manufactured now, I feel that soon the demand will be greater than the supply available of C-Dorys that are maintained in as good of shape as yours appears to be in. C-Dorys, that need a great deal of attention due to abuse of course will be super deals for those "handymen" in the world.
Often times the "deals" that are found by others seem to be those that are not advertised on this site by people that are unaware what a quality vessel they own. (for example a sale due to the death of its' owner that is advertised by a next of kin that knows nothing about the vessel).
C-Dorys are not like other mass produced vessels of lesser quality and do tend to hold their value better.
 
Good morning Dave,

I believe, the reason that your selling formula worked in 2004, was because it was 2004.

Today, the guy with cash definitely has an advantage (buyers market).

Regards,

Ron Fisher
 
I don't know if I have time to do it, but this thread is full of wonderful advice and considerations that could be harvested into a list of factors to consider and decisions to make when deciding to sell and price a boat (leaving out the specific discussion of the one at hand just to make it a simpler checklist.)

Could be posted somewhere, like linked to the introduction to the C-Dory's for Sale by Owners column.

Hummmm…………….?

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Pricing a item like a C-dory is very difficult. Something a salesman said that I have remembered since,
"Pricing solves all things"
What he was referring to was, if the item had defects, was in a bad color, located in a high crime area, etc. As long as someone was willing to price it accordinling to the current conditions a buyer would present themselves. Not necessarily the right buyer, but one.
I would venture to say, given the current conditions the boat is off the mark as you have asked the question. We love these boats, we have great memories attached to them and all the pictures to prove it.
I have spent my whole working life in sales, from the food you eat to the cars you drive. I decided to have my boat sold by someone else so I wouldn't allow my emotions to affect the sale. Lets face it, nothing will replace "that boat". But if we remember it's not the boat but our experiences that have the true value it might make this process easier.
I am in the market for a Dory, not necessarily the perfect one as that is not in..but having search the inventory through many channels I would say the price is high. If you can stomach the thought, continue lowering the price until a buyer presents themselc
 
Let me continue,
Lower the price unit buyer and seller meet. Otherwise it's likely you won't sell. Another thought, call a Dory dealer and have them appraise it for sale. A third party without that attachment may help you hit the mark instead of wasting time and opportunity.
My best educated guess, $14k +/-
 
Here's another thought. Change your perspective from being a seller to thinking like a buyer. Search for somewhat similar boats for sale in your area (you define area, but I'd say within an an hour's drive). Draw a large "T" on a sheet of paper. Compare features, just like some car web sites do between brands. If possible, call the seller. Ask if their boat and motor is still under warranty. Does it have stringers? Does the trailer have rust? Ask if they have a file documenting all past oil changes, impeller changes and regular service for the motor (especially if it is still under warranty). See what price they'll come down to on the phone just from your asking "How low would you sell this if I arrive with a briefcase of cash this weekend and start to fan Benjamins in your face?" If they offer a lower price, counter slightly lower. If they say okay to that, thank them and say you'll give it some thought. Now you know what you're competing against.

Summer is coming. Don't blow the opportunity to sell into the strong season to sell boats by clinging to unrealistic expectations. If you price your boat to be competitive and you explain the benefits of its features so a buyer fully appreciates the value of those features, if you have your maintenance file to show a buyer, and if you are relaxed and not showing a desperation to sell, then you'll move the boat as quickly as the market allows at the best price you might have a shot at.

Here's another s suggestion: A serious buyer will pay cash and come with cash in hand. Offer him a beer while you talk. Probe gently into what motivates him to buy a boat... their desired uses and sub-conscious outcomes. Example: Maybe he says that he'll use it fishing but is thinking to himself "This will be great for bonding with my son and grandson on the lake". Your job it to ask some questions in a friendly way to figure out what drives his desire. Then tell a quick tale of your enjoying the boat doing exactly that or something clearly similar. Plant the seed of desire first before starting in on selling the comparative benefits of the boat's features as merits to a purchasing it over alternatives.

Notice I did not say you are pricing the boat too high or too low. I don't know what price will move your boat and if that price was the highest you could have obtained. All I know is that the best price depends on many changing factors and will be the best price only at that moment in time, not last year, next year or with any different set of influencing factors (season, economy, gas price, etc.) There is no formula to this. It's a mix of making a realistic and rational comparison analysis, intuition and luck. It also is a factor of your need or utility of converting it into cash vs. the cost of keeping the boat. The "right" price is indeed something personal, not a statistical average or a formula or a dealer quote.

At least the C-Dory is not a solo use boat designed/marketed for fishing. In California, the Marine Life Protection Act (MLPA) has closed to fishing many good fishing spots on the California coast. This has scared away fishermen as boat buyers and motivates many to dump their trailer fishing boats designed for the ocean. Boats designed more for fishing at sea than for general family use are plunging in value as the cost:benefit of fishing locally deteriorates. This has particularly depressed the resale value of coastal fishing boats. Unfortunately by comparison, all used boats for sale fall with the lower sales comps.

I went to the LA Boat Show a week or so ago. The hall was full of very same-looking water sports (wake riding/water ski) model boats and fishing boats. Ranger Tug and Cutter Boats had their model on display. It may have reflected the lunch hour work day time I was there, but there were NO young families or blue collar fishermen looking at the other boats. There was a significant number of couples, obviously by their age and looks being retirees with money, looking over the Ranger Tug and the Cutter. Sometimes it's better to be different from the herd, and to sell to a more narrow, targeted market if that market has cash to burn.

Wow, just thought of another market... many people near Newport Harbor, California (W-E-A-L-T-H) own a Duffy electric boat just to putter around the harbor (never out to sea) with friends while having wine and cheese... sunset libation cruses! The C-dory can do that with a couple nice folding chairs in the cockpit and small folding table between them (Ikea sells one I use on my boat). The C-Dory "cute factor" helps there.

So as much as you may feel you're in a difficult area to market a C-Dory, it at least is not an MPLA impacted area and is a boat with many functions that lets you target whatever narrow market that still has money to burn on a boat and the motivation to buy one.
 
Over the winter I've been educating myself on the gold and silver market. The term "price discovery" often is used for it and other commodities.

I think I just had a realization on that concept. Could c-dorys be in a new "price discovery" phase of markets?
 
If you are serious about selling your boat, you might consider consigning it with a reputable dealer. I consigned my Toland 18.8 with Les Lampman at E.Q. Marine and found it to be a worthwhile experience. Here are some reasons where consigning with a dealer makes sense:
1. The dealer keeps regular hours, so the boat is more accessible to potential buyers. I was tired of "no-shows" and "looky-loos" taking up my time on evenings and weekends.
2. The dealer can arrange for financing.
3. The dealer can add upgrades/accessories (such as trim tabs) if they are a "must-have" with the potential buyer.
4. The dealer has a better idea of what a realistic selling price is, given your boat and your local market.
5. The dealer has no emotional involvement. He/she won't be personally offended by a low-ball offer.
6. The dealer takes care of the paperwork.
7. The dealer maintains a website and takes care of the marketing of your boat.
8. Compared to the price of a new C-dory with comparable extras, your boat will be perceived as a bargain.

It might be worthwhile to list your boat with Les, Matt, or Marc since they are regular contributors to this group and are well-versed on C-Dorys.
Good luck with your sale!
Leo
 
ferret30":8n6t8q2r said:
When I sell things I don't get offended by lowball offers -- I often won't reply to emails if I think the offer is so low that it doesn't seem realistic. Sometimes I will sell significantly below what something is worth (based on recent ebay *completed* transactions) just to get it over with.

The problem I see is when somebody takes an hour or two looking over something like a boat, maybe even gets a ride in it, takes it to a mechanic, and then without even having an issue with the item offers significantly below the advertised price. If we're going to take hours of my time and some of my trust, I'd appreciate it if a buyer was up front with the price they are considering offering.
Click to expand...

We don't do the boat ride or inspections until price is agreed to. The question comes up "How will I nknow what to offer until I know how it runs, it's condition, etc?"

Make the offer assuming everything works and runs properly. If it doesn't, you can walk away, or renegotiate.
 
Leo Smith":1fpdc9tf said:
If you are serious about selling your boat, you might consider consigning it with a reputable dealer. I consigned my Toland 18.8 with Les Lampman at E.Q. Marine and found it to be a worthwhile experience. Here are some reasons where consigning with a dealer makes sense:
1. The dealer keeps regular hours, so the boat is more accessible to potential buyers. I was tired of "no-shows" and "looky-loos" taking up my time on evenings and weekends.
2. The dealer can arrange for financing.
3. The dealer can add upgrades/accessories (such as trim tabs) if they are a "must-have" with the potential buyer.
4. The dealer has a better idea of what a realistic selling price is, given your boat and your local market.
5. The dealer has no emotional involvement. He/she won't be personally offended by a low-ball offer.
6. The dealer takes care of the paperwork.
7. The dealer maintains a website and takes care of the marketing of your boat.
8. Compared to the price of a new C-dory with comparable extras, your boat will be perceived as a bargain.

It might be worthwhile to list your boat with Les, Matt, or Marc since they are regular contributors to this group and are well-versed on C-Dorys.
Good luck with your sale!
Leo
Click to expand...

Leo,
I could not agree with you more. We used Spicer's Marina out of Noank to sell our CD 16 Cruiser. They have an excellent reputation, made it very hassle-free, and got us what we thought was a good price for our boat. All the reasons for getting a good broker that you listed were spot on.

Rich
 
Seabeagle,
You are asking a leading question, kind of like a wife or girlfriend asking: "Does this outfit make me look fat?" You are being a good sport with the wide variety of answers and opinions being offered to you.
Leo
 
Is it overpriced?

Maybe.

Keep in mind that a new C-Dory 16 is going to be in the $27-$30,000 range new (boat / motor / trailer). The used boat in question is 5 years old at this point.

Your boat has additional equipment on it, which cost more to install, but often the add ons don't add a ton of value, but do make the boat sell faster.

So while you're $10,000 below the cost of a new boat, there aren't a lot of people beating down the dealers' doors to buy new 16 C-Dories. Also note that the Angler sells better than the Cruiser, although I like the Cruiser better myself.

The custom stainless rack is more detraction than advantage on the boat. It is a personalization of the boat beyond what most buyers are willing to accept. Imagine if the hull stripes were painted lavender- it would diminish the number of potential buyers. The rack, while perfect for your use, may not be in line with your potential buyers expected use of the boat. So you spend all your time selling a prospect on what a great idea the rack is, instead of what a great boat the C-Dory is.

Rugged construction; positive flotation; ease of operation- these are the features of the boat. But buyers don't buy features, they buy what they do for them. They want the long lasting, safe operation and ability to single hand the boat that this design offers.

I think the electronics installed previously were overkill for most buyers of 16' boats, so removing them makes sense. If there are holes left from their install, that can turn buyers off: to have a "late model" boat with so many holes in it. If they have been filled and are unseen, that will not create any concerns for the buyer.

In this market, you need to have as few things that get in the way of the sale. Anything that distracts the buyer, or creates a doubt as to whether the boat they are looking at is the right one for them, moves you away from the sale. Holes in the dash or roof, and uniquely original add ons (no matter how well done and functional) can create a barrier between your potential buyer and their image of owning your boat.

Obviously you have a great deal of love of this boat. Use that to your advantage when presenting it, but don't let it get in the way of the sale. Once the new owner takes delivery, if they want to cut the pilothouse off for their use, it's no concern of yours. So don't worry about that.

You can talk in terms of finding a good home for your pride and joy. You can say in a light hearted way you're "conducting interviews for potential owners of your well cared for 2007 C-Dory 16 Cruiser." Just remember that the goal is to sell the boat, not to adopt it out.

You've got a great looking boat that has been well cared for and the next owner will be lucky to have it. The question is, will this market support this boat at $18,000? I don't know, but imagine that there are more potential buyers at $15,000 than $18,000.
 
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