Johnson 90: "CHK ENG" alert?

The plot thickens!

I've changed the fuel/water seperator filter element, as well as the low-pressure fuel filter in the engine. See http://www.navagear.com/2007/07/explori ... al-camera/ for some pictures.

Didn't fix it.

Then I was reading in my service manual about the CTP ("closed throttle position") switch, and it said "If CTP switch has failed, engine will tend to stall when decelerating". Bingo!

Yesterday I took my multitester to the boat to check its function, and it seems to work fine: ON when the throttle is closed and OFF when it's open. Since I only experience the stalling problem when the enngine is hot, I decided to run the boat. With the cover off the engine, I let it run at the dock. Still no problem, CTP switch still functioning properly.

So I decided to take it out and run it at higher rpms for five or ten minutes, duplicating the conditions that have been consistently producing stalls. Went out, ran around outside the marina. No stalling. So the problem just fixed itself, then? Weird.

OK, this is where it gets good:

So I put the cover back on the engine, ran around a bit more, throttled back to idle, and the engine started working harder and harder until it stalled!

THE COVER! Tried it twice more, and sure enough, when hot, it won't idle with the cover on...and if you pull the cover off before it stalls, it will recover and idle just fine.

MY THEORY: exhaust that is supposed to exit the engine completely is, instead, ending up inside the engine enclosure, thus oxygen-starving the engine. When running faster, enough air is stirred around, perhaps due to the motion of the boat through the air, that the engine runs OK.

Anybody have experience with this sort of problem?
 
Timflan,

If exhaust is somehow not exiting properly with the cover ON at low speeds (or exhaust being sucked into the cover's air intake port/slot) THAT would be a major design flaw -- not probable, but who knows...

Since it acts up with the cover ON, could the cover be heating the engine and components greater causing some of these anomalies?
 
Dora~Jean":2un5x9x9 said:
Timflan,

If exhaust is somehow not exiting properly with the cover ON at low speeds (or exhaust being sucked into the cover's air intake port/slot) THAT would be a major design flaw -- not probable, but who knows...

Since it acts up with the cover ON, could the cover be heating the engine and components greater causing some of these anomalies?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a design flaw...I think something is wrong, and exhaust is getting inside when it's supposed to go outside. One other piece of evidence: a couple months ago, when I went to check the oil level, I was suprised to find the dipstick handle less brightly colore than I remembered it. Instead of yellow, it was kind of dull yellowish brown. Oh well, maybe I'm thinking of the dipstick handle in my truck. But since then, I've been trying to pay attention to the appearance of the engine components beneath the cover, and I THINK things are getting dirtier in there, but I'm not sure.

Now I'm starting to feel like my initial perception was probably correct, and I probably should have investigated more thoroughly. Engine was still running fine at that point, though, so if it ain't broke...

But the dirtying up of components within the engine enclosure would be consistent with exhaust going out the wrong way. It might also be consistent with too much heat, as you suggest. I'm just not sure what to check next.
 
timflan":2ybjt3wy said:
So I was crossing Puget Sound on Monday with little Arwen at the helm (and Raymarine doing the actual driving!). I was rigging up fenders and lines as we approach the entrance to Blake Island's little harbor, when all of a sudden some alarm is going off. The "Systemcheck" tachometer tells me to CHK ENG.

Um...OK...Check Engine how, exactly? For what? I throttled down to idle, listening to the sound. Seemed like it might be a little rough, but might just be my imagination. I'm pretty close to the harbor, and I'd rather be inside than out if something's going wrong, so I add a little throttle and drive us in, keeping the RPMs low. Tie up to a float and shut 'er down without incident.

I checked the oil, and it was fine. Arwen and I explored the island for a couple of hours, and when we came back, the engine started up just fine, idled fine, and we made a run home to Edmonds (about 17 miles) without incident.

So what was that all about? I've just reviewed two owner's mauals and a service manual, and I can find only one SPECIFIC indication of what can cause a CHK ENG allert:

Low Battery Voltage Caustion System
Activated when battery voltage decreases to less than 9 volts for 30 seconds.

Um...OK. It seems to me I checked my other guages during the alert, and Voltage was fine, somewhere in the 14-16V range as usual. Little Arwen DOES have a way of playing with switches, but the only high-draw item she might have actuated would be the anchor windlass. I doubt she held that switch down for 30 seconds. She can barely push it down at all, and she can't lift it up at all. I know this because I asked her to help me raise the anchor earlier that morning. So see, I know she was interested in this new switch, and might have given it some attention while I wasn't looking.

Any other ideas? What part of my ENG should I actually CHK?
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Kelp over thr water intake. Been there & done that!! :lol:
 
Alright, I've verified that exhaust is leaking out of the lower portion of the exhaust manifold. I can see it and feel it. I can't really do anything to fix it until I pull the boat out of the water.

Mac, it looks like I'll be over sometime soon to fetch my trailer! :-)
 
Doesn't sound good...

Do you know where you are going to take it for repair?

I'll start to cut back the weeds from the trailer to find it and get it ready - you can come by anytime (even if we are not here) -

Mac
 
Island Ranger":17hs9vhc said:
Do you know where you are going to take it for repair?
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I'll take it to Jacobsen's Marine in Ballard. I'e never had them do work for me, but each time I'm in there for a part or something, they've been helpful.

Anybody have any experience, good or bad, with Jacobsen's?
 
timflan":w9la1hm5 said:
I'll take it to Jacobsen's Marine in Ballard.
Click to expand...

OK, the boat's in the shop, and I'm about as anxious as a father in a maternity ward. I've no doubt it can be fixed...the question is "how much will it cost?"
 
OK, here's the problem:

I've got an exhaust leak. About two grand worth of exhaust leak, as the midsection casting known as the "Engine Holder" needs to be replaced completely, along with a bunch of associated gaskets and little parts.

It's corroded clear through in one spot, allowing exhaust out, into the engine enclosure, thus starving the engine for oxygen. It also means there's an incredible mess of carbon and soot inside the engine enclosure, but that's just ugly; it doesn't prevent the engine from operating correctly.

Now about the warranty. Jacobsen's called, and I called: BRP says that, aside from the warranty having expired (about a month ago...doh!), it wouldn't be covered anyway. Why not? Because corrosion isn't covered; it's a maintenance issue. Oh, well OK then... :-(
 
timflan":364ah29a said:
OK, here's the problem:

I've got an exhaust leak. About two grand worth of exhaust leak, as the midsection casting known as the "Engine Holder" needs to be replaced completely, along with a bunch of associated gaskets and little parts.

It's corroded clear through in one spot, allowing exhaust out, into the engine enclosure, thus starving the engine for oxygen. It also means there's an incredible mess of carbon and soot inside the engine enclosure, but that's just ugly; it doesn't prevent the engine from operating correctly.

Now about the warranty. Jacobsen's called, and I called: BRP says that, aside from the warranty having expired (about a month ago...doh!), it wouldn't be covered anyway. Why not? Because corrosion isn't covered; it's a maintenance issue. Oh, well OK then... :-(
Click to expand...

You should be able to find a used (fresh water) exhaust housing or complete motor cheaper than new parts! Good luck on your quest. Mite be time to look @ the F80-F115 Yamaha :beer
 
Those engine parts probably haven't been changed since they started building them, at least not until the new EFI ones came out. My lower unit was the same on my 45 from now back as far as '94 and earlier. Find one with a blown power head, that's a lot more common!

Charlie
 
This is the Suzuki-built EFI four-stroke Johnson sold for a very few years while the E-Tec was under development. There MIGHT be Suzuki parts available...I don't know how long Suzuki has been building these engines.
 
The Suzuki and Johnson are the same with the exception with the exterior housings (ie: housing color and name). Suzuki will have what you need.
 
Sure doesn't sound right to me.

I find it hard to believe a three year old motor could have this kind of major failure and not be covered in warranty.

(Or would they say we have extremely corrosive water in Puget Sound - not what the engine was design to operate in?)

I'll cross off Suzuki/Johnson motors off my list.

Mac
 
Island Ranger":3vneuy2x said:
I find it hard to believe a three year old motor could have this kind of major failure and not be covered in warranty.
Click to expand...
Me too! And the service manager at Jacobsen's Marine agrees. They called BRP, and I called after they did. BRP isn't being unpleasant about it, they're just sticking to a strict interpretation: it's corrosion, which is out of their control, and the warranty has expired anyway.

My fear is that if THIS casting has corrosion...are the other midsection castings (to say nothing of the powerhead or the lower unit) similarly corroded, and they just haven't failed yet? Wow...that would suck, wouldn't it?
 
By the way, I'm starting to feel like a real "orphan" with regard to this engine. Suzuki-authorized service departments don't want to work on it because it's a Johnson. Johnson-authorized service departments are happy to work on it, and they can get all the parts, but they acknowledge right off the bat that they don't see many.

I guess (but have no firm evidence) that BRP cut this deal with Suzuki to sell rebranded Suzi outboards for a couple of years while their own plants were busy R&Ding and retooling in preparation for the big E-Tec push. They needed to feed SOMETHING into the retail channel in the meantime, so they worked the deal with Suzuki.
 
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