Let's talk 23 Ventures

F

fisharizona

New member
So after owning many boats (Whaler and Centurion currently; Parkers, Grady, Sea Ray, etc.) We've decided the 23 Venture fits our current situation perfectly. There are a few things my research hasn't been able to FULLY determine:

1. How much larger is the V berth vs. the 22 cruiser? Im 6'3" and have tall teenage boys that continue to catch up to me so we need to sleep 4 as reasonably as we can. (I sleep outside as much as possible)

2. Is the 6' 4" headroom in the 23 consistent throughout the years? Our budget means we'll be shopping for an older version (2000-2010ish) based on what Ive seen on the market in the past few years.

3. This will be a boat mainly for Lake Powell for us. (We live close)...Anyone towed a jetski? We made a deal with the boys and they negotiated the ski; but I get to sell the Centurion (YES!)

4. There seems to be a lot less out there...am I going to have to wait years to find a good one?!

So there's the start of my diatribe. We plan on doing the GL in a few years when the boys are off, and for now think it's a perfect boat for our Powell adventures. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
 
Welcome to the best boating site around! Lot's of good information to be found here.

The 23 is a great boat. Owning mine was the best time of my life.

Here's a few things in response to your questions.
First, the 23 Venture was first built in 2006 - you won't find one older than that. (And the first ones weren't built by C-Dory. My '06 was a Cape Cruiser. Long complicated story about the Venture model - but it is the same mold and basically the same boat whether a Cape Cruiser or a C-Dory.)
Second, I'm 6'3" and had no problem in the v-berth and plenty of head room in the cabin. Never owned a 22.
Third, can't comment on towing watercraft. Never tried it.

Best of luck in your search.
 
If you want to sleep 4, one will have to be in the cockpit. In which case I would get camper back. I also would buy one of the "Privacy curtains for the port-potty which will move to the cockpit at night.

You will probably sleep catty-corner in the cockpit (5'1" fore and aft, and 6'1" With. the full camper back, you will not have to worry about rain/storms at night; also helps to keep bugs out, especially if it has zippers on the clear vinyl, with no seem netting when the vinyl is gone.

Personally would be looking at one of the larger boats, such as the C Dory 25, the Venture/cape cruiser 26, or Tom Cat 255.

There is one family which had 3 boys and mom and dad. At least two slept ashore.

I have used the 22 and 2nd 5 on Lake Powell. They both (as well as a slight more dead rise--any of these are almost extreme low dead rise(Measured at the Transom. The progressive "V" is also slightly deeper on the Venture group.

Why did you void the C Dory brand over the Venture? What features?
 
Thanks for the info all. I thought Cape Cruisers built the 23 for a while longer; looks like 2006 is the earliest version of the 23 out there. 99% of the time 4 of us will not be sleeping on the boat, just traveling. We love sleeping under the stars but need an option if the weather doesn't cooperate. Seeing a RTT on a 22 expands the options tremendously. The rear enclosure is mandatory as well. Were in a Baja a bit too so I don't want to go larger or heavier than the 23 so we can get the boat to Gonzaga easily.

John, I appreciate the info about towing a ski. We've seen literally hundreds of skis being towed at Powell over the years; never knew about possible motor swamping issues; I'll read into it more. Ideally we get a stand up and traditional ski (Lake lice as my good buddy calls them.)

Bob, not sure what you mean here:

Why did you void the C Dory brand over the Venture? What features?

I thought they were all the same molds just acquired by CD in 2008 ish? The feedback seems to be that either brand is equally as stout.
 
fisharizona":13dx8i71 said:
...

Why did you void the C Dory brand over the Venture? What features?

I thought they were all the same molds just acquired by CD in 2008 ish? The feedback seems to be that either brand is equally as stout.
Click to expand...

At first glance, the Ventures and the C-Dorys look quite similar. There differences in the details.

There currently two versions of the Venture. The Venture and the Venture Sport.

The Venture is better finished. There are headliners and such in the interior.
The Venture Sport is less finished than the Venture and is closer in finish the to C-Dory. Some people prefer the more utilitarian finish of the C-Dory for ease of maintenance.

The Venture has a slightly different hull shape than the C-Dory. Some people say it rides better, others say there is no appreciable difference.

The biggest difference as far as interior comfort is the roof. The roof on the Venture is higher than the C-Dory and is continuous across the width of the boat. The C-Dory has a raised section over the cabin aisle, with the sections over the galley and dinette being lower. The C-Dory can be had in regular top and high top models. The high top gives about 6 inches more headroom over the aisle (and is higher than the Venture). The ceiling height over the galley and dinette are the same in both models. The higher Venture roofline allows the windows on that boat to be taller. This can be a benefit to taller people.

The Venture has a full height aft bulkhead at the splashwell. C-Dorys have a lower center section there.

You'll probably need to see both boats in person to decide which is right for you. The Ventures have a higher price than C-Dorys. C-Dorys are much more common.
 
fisharizona":2258rep0 said:
. . .
I thought they were all the same molds just acquired by CD in 2008 ish? The feedback seems to be that either brand is equally as stout.
Click to expand...

These discussions easily get off-track. The molds for the 23 foot boat originally built by a company called Cape Cruiser were acquired by C-Dory. The 23 foot Cape Cruiser built in 06-07, and the 23 foot C-Dory built 08 to present, are basically the same boat. These boats are all called Ventures. (There is also a 26 foot version - again originally built by Cape Cruiser.)

The 22 foot C-Dory has been made (with some hull modification) by C-Dory since before the 23 foot was ever built and continues to be made by C-Dory. There is also a 25 foot version of this boat.

I think Bob's question has to do with whether you might want to consider the 22 as well as the 23. (Or, the 25 as well as the 26, for that matter.)
 
To fill in any further gaps in the 22/23 and 25/26 saga, we bought our CD25 (Wild Blue) in 2006. Some employees at C-Dory and one of the original family that brought the C-Dory to market broke away and started the Cape Cruiser boats. The original premise of the 23 and 26 was: like an updated C-Dory. It turned into a court battle between the two companies (because of the VERY similar designs) that settled in C-Dory's favor, but ultimately tanked both business entities... but C-Dory acquired the molds for the Venture 23 and Argonaut 26 in the lawsuit settlement.

The Venture boats (23 and 26) have a bit more deadrise in the hull, but are very similar designs (the reason for the lawsuit). If you are considering a 23, then you might consider the 22; likewise with the 26/25.

A family of 4 with two teenagers is going to be very snug in the 22/23... and moderately snug in the 25/26. (The v-berth will sleep 2, the table can be converted to a short single berth, and someone is going to be sleeping in the aisle or cockpit... and during those middle-of-the-night trips to the head, everyone is going to be awake.) We cruised our 25 from coast to coast to coast, spending up to 6 months at a time in it for years... and we are still married. I couldn't imagine having two more adults in there with us, but some families do togetherness better than others. There is a significant increase in space between the 22 and 25, beyond the fact that the 25 (and 26) has an enclosed head with a shower. There are folks in this group that have taken longer cruises with 4 or 5 people onboard... but realistically (in my experience), any of these models are great for a couple... well, some couples.

When we were on the Erie Canal with Wild Blue, a guy in a 55' boat was intrigued by the fact we were traveling as much as we did in our boat (it took him 2 years to get from Houston to the Erie Canal in his boat... it took us a week or so with Wild Blue on the trailer). In the time it took him to run the ICW up to New York (admittedly, at a leisurely pace), we had done the Pacific Northwest 3 times, Florida twice (including a winter in the Keys), the Gulf Coast, Lake Powell a couple times, Yellowstone and the Tetons, and a bunch of other cruising. He asked if I would show our boat to his wife... "Sure." She didn't get beyond the cockpit: stuck her head in the cabin doorway and said, "Oh, hell no!" To be fair, they had more square footage on their sundeck than we had in our whole boat.

The trailer is the best accessory with these boats and it allows you to have the boat in the best places at the best times. We all travel in the way that suits us.

Good luck with the search.
 
I really should have named this thread "Lets talk 23 footers"...mods? The devil is absolutely in the details (that's why I'm here; admittedly, I love this stuff)...My decision to go 23 is based on the 6' 4" ceiling height. I've read on here accounts of folks that struggled with the lower ceiling heights and it was an issue. I like the self bailing cockpit, 4" beam increase, larger fuel storage and higher HP motor option as well.

James, I appreciate your in-depth input; your perspective is exactly how we've come to our decision not only to look for a 23, but also C-Dory. I've learned through the years that K.I.S.S is a philosophy that should be trusted...I stare longingly at the Ranger and Nordic tugs only to realize that my pride lies in the build and my abilities to fix, improve and maintain all systems...

Just to throw a wrench into it all. When was the first year of the "high top" 22? Can't seem to find that anywhere. If the right 22 with a 115 popped up....
 
I'm 5-11 and I find the v-berth on the 22 somewhat cramped. The length is okay, but it tapers to about 12" width in the bow and my feet and my wife's feet are always trying to occupy the same space. I can't give any info about the 23, but the high top 22s are kind of rare and that wont fix the footbox issue.
 
fisharizona":262hnsvb said:
. . . I like the self bailing cockpit ...
Click to expand...

The 23 does not have a self-bailing cockpit. (Nor does the 22.) Unlike the 22, the 23 does have a full-height transom, but it does not self-bail.
 
NORO LIM":yy4b24mq said:
fisharizona":yy4b24mq said:
. . . I like the self bailing cockpit ...
Click to expand...

The 23 does not have a self-bailing cockpit. (Nor does the 22.) Unlike the 22, the 23 does have a full-height transom, but it does not self-bail.
Click to expand...

Got it. Looks like you get that in the 25'....hmmmm.

Its unfortunate the CD website isn't more precise in its measurements, descriptions and photo/video gallery. For $100+K for a new 23, I'd think those things (especially a detailed photo gallery) would help sell boats.
 
You have to go to the CD 25 or Venture 26 to get the self bailing cockpit.
The issue I have with the foam lined cabin sides and overhead, is that it is very common to get delimitation of the 1/4" of foam between the hull and the vinyl. Also getting mold under the headliner/hull liner is common in the South. AZ may be dry enough that you may not get the mold, but it may delaminate from the heat.

I am 6'2" and about 180 lbs no problem for us (including at least one small dog) in the V berth--My wife is about 7" shorter than I aim, which may be part of the equation. We have been boating most of our lives, and are accommodated to V Berths. The only boat in the C Dory line which gets away from this issue is the Tom Cat. There the entire beam of the boat is available for the bunk--or as we did with our grandchildren; one person on the port side sleeping fore and aft, with up to 3 sleeping thwarts ship. A separate filler cushion in the forward foot well of the navigator seat, to allow the port person to have full length fore and aft. With the C Dory 25 or C Dory 22, with the front navigator seat which slides aft, you can remove the forward bulkhead in the cabin. This allows the person sleeping on the port side to have an additional 24" or so in the port side of the V Berth. Again you have to make a cushion for that area or have soft gear there to extend the sleeping length, as well as making Access easier.

DSC00477.sized.jpg

Also the major issue with headroom and the 22, is going through the cabin door. You do have to duck. Again for us having many sailboats, we are acclimated to a less than ideal head room. The C Dory 25 has over 6' 10" headroom in the center. On our last boat we had the canvas for the camper back and several life jackets in the "high" part of the center roof, and still no issues with my 6' 2" height. This storage rack brought the entire ceiling down to the same as the non elevated roof. By riding in a boat, you can see if this will be an issue for you.

I do suggest trying to board and if possible to take a ride in all of the various boats. Attending one of the gatherings would give a person a good shot of both of these goals. Plus a gathering would give a chance to ask a lot of questions.

Bob, not sure what you mean here:

Why did you void the C Dory brand over the Venture? What features?
Click to expand...

You did not appear to give the C Dory brand as much thought as the Venture. The one feature I like about the utilitarian interior, is that you can remove all fabric/foam objects and then hose out the interior of the boat, if necessary.

I now realize you mean what is technically called Personal Water Craft ( PWC). Jet Ski is a brand: Kawasaki. My apology

I am sure you are a responsible rider. However I see many irresponsible people run the PWCs, especially at Lake Powell. I realize this paints with one brush a category of boaters. But at Powell they often do not follow the rules. Primary violations include running after dark with a PWC. and this large category applies to wake board boats also:
The operator of any vessel may not exceed a wakeless speed when within 150 feet of: (a) another vessel;
(b) a person in or floating on the water;
(c) a water skier being towed by another boat;
(d) a water skier that had been towed behind the operator's vessel unless the skier is still surfing or riding in an upright stance on the wake created by the vessel;
(e) a water skier that had been towed behind another vessel and the skier is still surfing or riding in an upright stance on the wake created by the other vessel;
(f) a shore fisherman;
(g) a launching ramp;
(h) a dock; or
(i) a designated swimming area.
by the wake produced by the operator's motorboat.
Click to expand...

The above can include wake boards, and tubes towed behind a boat.

Some of the PWC riders seem to have graduated to wake board boats and commit the same violation of the laws.

I would also be concerned about a PWC being towed at any higher speeds having issues. For towing at speed the larger rated outboard would. shine for the 23 or 25/26 ft. boats. The Venture 23 up to 150 HP and the 25/26 up to 200 hp,

There are a number of C Dory 22's which are pre 2000 and are still in good condition. Many have been repowered.

You mentioned towing to Gonzaga. I assume that this is the bay off Highway 5, and I believe is now paved all of the way. You should be able to tow a 25 down there without problem. You do need a truck (I feel 3/4 ton is best, but some 1/2 tons do fine, and I towed my last 25 with a Yukon XL. Much better with a 3/4 ton diesel.
 
One thing to consider with a 25 and the self bailing cockpit is that if the boat is loaded heavily, the cockpit drains can work the opposite way and let water in.

The 22s do not self drain, but there is a sump at the back of the cockpit at a pump that removes the water.
 
thataway":afjuvjtq said:
You have to go to the CD 25 or Venture 26 to get the self bailing cockpit.
The issue I have with the foam lined cabin sides and overhead, is that it is very common to get delimitation of the 1/4" of foam between the hull and the vinyl. Also getting mold under the headliner/hull liner is common in the South. AZ may be dry enough that you may not get the mold, but it may delaminate from the heat.

I am 6'2" and about 180 lbs no problem for us (including at least one small dog) in the V berth--My wife is about 7" shorter than I aim, which may be part of the equation. We have been boating most of our lives, and are accommodated to V Berths. The only boat in the C Dory line which gets away from this issue is the Tom Cat. There the entire beam of the boat is available for the bunk--or as we did with our grandchildren; one person on the port side sleeping fore and aft, with up to 3 sleeping thwarts ship. A separate filler cushion in the forward foot well of the navigator seat, to allow the port person to have full length fore and aft. With the C Dory 25 or C Dory 22, with the front navigator seat which slides aft, you can remove the forward bulkhead in the cabin. This allows the person sleeping on the port side to have an additional 24" or so in the port side of the V Berth. Again you have to make a cushion for that area or have soft gear there to extend the sleeping length, as well as making Access easier.

DSC00477.sized.jpg

Also the major issue with headroom and the 22, is going through the cabin door. You do have to duck. Again for us having many sailboats, we are acclimated to a less than ideal head room. The C Dory 25 has over 6' 10" headroom in the center. On our last boat we had the canvas for the camper back and several life jackets in the "high" part of the center roof, and still no issues with my 6' 2" height. This storage rack brought the entire ceiling down to the same as the non elevated roof. By riding in a boat, you can see if this will be an issue for you.

I do suggest trying to board and if possible to take a ride in all of the various boats. Attending one of the gatherings would give a person a good shot of both of these goals. Plus a gathering would give a chance to ask a lot of questions.

Bob, not sure what you mean here:

Why did you void the C Dory brand over the Venture? What features?
Click to expand...

You did not appear to give the C Dory brand as much thought as the Venture. The one feature I like about the utilitarian interior, is that you can remove all fabric/foam objects and then hose out the interior of the boat, if necessary.

I now realize you mean what is technically called Personal Water Craft ( PWC). Jet Ski is a brand: Kawasaki. My apology

I am sure you are a responsible rider. However I see many irresponsible people run the PWCs, especially at Lake Powell. I realize this paints with one brush a category of boaters. But at Powell they often do not follow the rules. Primary violations include running after dark with a PWC. and this large category applies to wake board boats also:
The operator of any vessel may not exceed a wakeless speed when within 150 feet of: (a) another vessel;
(b) a person in or floating on the water;
(c) a water skier being towed by another boat;
(d) a water skier that had been towed behind the operator's vessel unless the skier is still surfing or riding in an upright stance on the wake created by the vessel;
(e) a water skier that had been towed behind another vessel and the skier is still surfing or riding in an upright stance on the wake created by the other vessel;
(f) a shore fisherman;
(g) a launching ramp;
(h) a dock; or
(i) a designated swimming area.
by the wake produced by the operator's motorboat.
Click to expand...

The above can include wake boards, and tubes towed behind a boat.

Some of the PWC riders seem to have graduated to wake board boats and commit the same violation of the laws.

I would also be concerned about a PWC being towed at any higher speeds having issues. For towing at speed the larger rated outboard would. shine for the 23 or 25/26 ft. boats. The Venture 23 up to 150 HP and the 25/26 up to 200 hp,

There are a number of C Dory 22's which are pre 2000 and are still in good condition. Many have been repowered.

You mentioned towing to Gonzaga. I assume that this is the bay off Highway 5, and I believe is now paved all of the way. You should be able to tow a 25 down there without problem. You do need a truck (I feel 3/4 ton is best, but some 1/2 tons do fine, and I towed my last 25 with a Yukon XL. Much better with a 3/4 ton diesel.
Click to expand...

Thank you Bob for your insight. Makes me think any of the CD models would work with the right attitude and ability to cope with its shortcomings (or lack thereof).

What an incredible resource this site is. You all have helped me tremendously. It's tough when you live in AZ and have never even seen one in person! Im starting to think I need to find you all at the next Lake Powell event.
 
Please note, srbaum corrected me that the Venture 26 is not self bailing.

As for the 25's, there has been a variation of where the outlet of the scuppers was placed and several had them placed where back flooding was frequent. The 2007 C Dory 25 we last owned did self bail, even with 3 batteries, full fuel, and water, plus the freezer in the aft end of the cockpit . We may have had enough weight forward to keep the boat in a better balance, or our boat had the scuppers at the correct height.

There have been a couple of incidents where when anchored stern too, that there was flooding of a C Dory 25's cockpit. Also I believe one incident where a wave did break over the cockpit and caused flooding. Our experience with "normal use" we have not had issues.

I don't believe there has been an official Powell gathering this year, and minimal gatherings the last several years, with COVID and the low lake levels. Hopefully this gathering will be back on track in the future. They are normally Oak Creek Canyon. Often several boats will scope out a site, and "preserve it " for the main event, where there have been over a dozen boats.

The times at Powell you want to be off the beach are the major storm events with potential high winds and flash flooding. Powell was one of our favorite places. We had kept one of our C Dorys in Los Vegas at a friend's ranch and a 1 ton van to tow it with. It was a good place to stage trips to Powell, Yellowstone, PNW, San Francisco and S. Calif.
 
fisharizona":1kz0yd3j said:
What an incredible resource this site is. You all have helped me tremendously. It's tough when you live in AZ and have never even seen one in person! Im starting to think I need to find you all at the next Lake Powell event.
Click to expand...

Hey Fisharizona,
You're right, it is tough to find a real, live, C-Dory to look at to see if it's something that might fit your needs. With your crew of four, and all of you being 6+' tall, a 25 would probably make more sense . Several years before we got our 22 we had the opportunity to check one out up in Phoenix. The gentleman who showed us his 22 also owned a 25 and that 25 was HUGE compared to the 22. I was quite astonished at the difference when comparing them side by side like that.

For the Mrs and I, the 22 is perfect. We've had some "rent-a-grandkid" kids (5 and 6 year old's that belong to some friends) join us for a couple of nights and that worked out fine with them sleeping in the v-berth with my wife, and me on the dinette. Anything more than that, for longer than a couple of nights, would probably be a bit uncomfortable.

Having said that, if you want to check out a standard "low" top 22, we're heading to Powell for a couple of weeks starting this weekend. Let me know and we'll see if we can figure something out.
 
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