Lifesling = USCG throwable?
- Thread starter Doryman
- Start date
The short answer is "yes". The Life Sling (depending on model) will be a type IV or V PFD. It is a throwable device. However, we also carry a thowable cushion--for the dinghy if nothing more. (Plus standard life jackets of type I, II or III.
I believe that the life sling and horseshoe bouys are not approved in Canada--so you need the "official life ring" there. (This may have changed, because Transport Canada, recently has added a section on the use of the Lifesling).
I believe that the life sling and horseshoe bouys are not approved in Canada--so you need the "official life ring" there. (This may have changed, because Transport Canada, recently has added a section on the use of the Lifesling).
The issue of the LifeSling not being accepted as a throwable device came up in Trawlers and Trawlering last Fall/winter. Several members of the CG Aux (or equivilant in Canada) said that it was not accepted at that time. I questioned this, because in my opinon it is a lot better than a life ring:
From: CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Small Vessel Regulations
CRC, Vol. XVII, c. 1487
"Pleasure Craft over 6 m but not over 8 m in Length
16.03 (1) Subject to sections 16.2 and 16.3, every pleasure craft over 6 m but not over 8 m in length shall carry personal protection equipment, boat safety equipment, distress equipment and navigation equipment in accordance with subsections (2) to (5).
(2) Personal protection equipment shall consist of
(a) subject to section 16.08, one personal flotation device or lifejacket of appropriate size for each person on board;
(b) either:
(i) one buoyant heaving line of not less than 15 m in length, or
(ii) one lifebuoy with an outside diameter of 610 mm or 762 mm attached to a buoyant line of not less than 15 m in length; and
(c) a reboarding device, if the freeboard of the pleasure craft exceeds 0.5
(From Definitions section: "reboarding device", in respect of a small vessel, means a ladder, lifting harness or other apparatus that does not include any part of the vessel's propulsion unit and that assists persons in gaining access to the vessel from the water. )
Currently in the Canadian Transport Fishing vessel brochure, they show an item similar to the LifeSling.
The 610 mm outside is 24" and the 720mm outside is 28.3 inches--still difficult to get "into".
I am not aware of anyone being cited for not having a lifering. We had Canadian CG aboard our vessels for social functions a number of times, and had a horseshoe bouy and a life sling--never commented on, so I suspect it is not enforced--if it is really a requirement--but it appears to be on the books...
From: CANADA SHIPPING ACT
Small Vessel Regulations
CRC, Vol. XVII, c. 1487
"Pleasure Craft over 6 m but not over 8 m in Length
16.03 (1) Subject to sections 16.2 and 16.3, every pleasure craft over 6 m but not over 8 m in length shall carry personal protection equipment, boat safety equipment, distress equipment and navigation equipment in accordance with subsections (2) to (5).
(2) Personal protection equipment shall consist of
(a) subject to section 16.08, one personal flotation device or lifejacket of appropriate size for each person on board;
(b) either:
(i) one buoyant heaving line of not less than 15 m in length, or
(ii) one lifebuoy with an outside diameter of 610 mm or 762 mm attached to a buoyant line of not less than 15 m in length; and
(c) a reboarding device, if the freeboard of the pleasure craft exceeds 0.5
(From Definitions section: "reboarding device", in respect of a small vessel, means a ladder, lifting harness or other apparatus that does not include any part of the vessel's propulsion unit and that assists persons in gaining access to the vessel from the water. )
Currently in the Canadian Transport Fishing vessel brochure, they show an item similar to the LifeSling.
The 610 mm outside is 24" and the 720mm outside is 28.3 inches--still difficult to get "into".
I am not aware of anyone being cited for not having a lifering. We had Canadian CG aboard our vessels for social functions a number of times, and had a horseshoe bouy and a life sling--never commented on, so I suspect it is not enforced--if it is really a requirement--but it appears to be on the books...
Alyssa Jean
New member
I can't speak for Canada. But for the CG in the US a Type IV Throwable Device in my Vessel Safety Check Manual is described this way:
Throwable Devices may be a bouyant cushion, a ring buoy, or a horseshoe design. Type IV PFDs are designed to be grasped and held by the user until rescued, as well as to be thrown to a person who has fallen overboard. The Type IV is suitable only where there is a probability of quick rescue such as areas where there is considerable boating activity.
Buoyant cushions are thick foam Type IV Throwable devices approximately 15 by 15 by 2 inches. This type of throwable PFD has two 20 inch grab straps, one each on opposite sides of the PFD. The grab straps are for holding the PFD to your chest or for putting one leg and head through opposite straps.
Ring buoys are available in 18, 18 1/2, 19, 20, 24, and 30 inch outside diameter.
All PFDs for recreational boats must have a fully legible instruction label and the Coast Guard approval number listed. If not, the device does not meet carriage or VSC decal requirements. (Taken from the Vessel Safety Check Manual)
My take:
If a device has a USCG approved Type IV tag on it, it is an approved device of that type. If it does not, it is NOT a USCG approved Type IV device.
Throwable Devices may be a bouyant cushion, a ring buoy, or a horseshoe design. Type IV PFDs are designed to be grasped and held by the user until rescued, as well as to be thrown to a person who has fallen overboard. The Type IV is suitable only where there is a probability of quick rescue such as areas where there is considerable boating activity.
Buoyant cushions are thick foam Type IV Throwable devices approximately 15 by 15 by 2 inches. This type of throwable PFD has two 20 inch grab straps, one each on opposite sides of the PFD. The grab straps are for holding the PFD to your chest or for putting one leg and head through opposite straps.
Ring buoys are available in 18, 18 1/2, 19, 20, 24, and 30 inch outside diameter.
All PFDs for recreational boats must have a fully legible instruction label and the Coast Guard approval number listed. If not, the device does not meet carriage or VSC decal requirements. (Taken from the Vessel Safety Check Manual)
My take:
If a device has a USCG approved Type IV tag on it, it is an approved device of that type. If it does not, it is NOT a USCG approved Type IV device.
My understanding of the equipment requirements are that you must carry the equipment required by your country of registration or documentation. US boats carry US Coast Guard approved equipment and Canadian (or other country) carry Canadian approved equipment.
Otherwise, those of us who cross the border would have to carry two sets of gear, one for each country.
In addition, Canada requires more safety gear than the US does.
Otherwise, those of us who cross the border would have to carry two sets of gear, one for each country.
In addition, Canada requires more safety gear than the US does.
Alyssa Jean
New member
Type IV's are throwable devices. Type V's are special use wearable devices.
What the manual states about Type V Special Use Device is this: Type V PFDs are intended for special use activities and may be carried instead of another PFD only if used according to the approval condition stated on the label. A Type V PFD may also provide performance of either a Type I, II, or III PFD (as marked on its label). If the label says the PFD is "approved only when worn" the PFD is required to be worn during the VSC (Vessel Safety Check) as well as when underway to be acceptable for meeting VCS requirements.
As you can see, and as I look at the manual , there is no reference to a Lifesling type peice of equipment.
I find one reference to the ability for one type to "substitute for another" in the following statement: Other Type V special purpose vests must have a label stating dual classification to qualify.
I also find this description when Googleing Lifesling:
USCG/A! Type IV
It's one thing to get the boat back to a man overboard. Getting the man back in the boat can be far more difficult, especially if the victim is unconscious. The USCG-approved Life Sling 2 is the most.......
What the manual states about Type V Special Use Device is this: Type V PFDs are intended for special use activities and may be carried instead of another PFD only if used according to the approval condition stated on the label. A Type V PFD may also provide performance of either a Type I, II, or III PFD (as marked on its label). If the label says the PFD is "approved only when worn" the PFD is required to be worn during the VSC (Vessel Safety Check) as well as when underway to be acceptable for meeting VCS requirements.
As you can see, and as I look at the manual , there is no reference to a Lifesling type peice of equipment.
I find one reference to the ability for one type to "substitute for another" in the following statement: Other Type V special purpose vests must have a label stating dual classification to qualify.
I also find this description when Googleing Lifesling:
USCG/A! Type IV
It's one thing to get the boat back to a man overboard. Getting the man back in the boat can be far more difficult, especially if the victim is unconscious. The USCG-approved Life Sling 2 is the most.......
As a boarding officer in the Coast Guard, I can say the first thing I look at when inspecting PFD's is that the label says,"U.S. Coast Guard approved" and then the approval number. As long as the lifesling is labeled as a Coast Guard type IV, then it's good to go. I also ensure that type IV's are "immediately available", and type I, II, & III's are "readily accessible". Type V's must be used in accordance with the manufacturer's directions, which may require them to be worn at all times.
Stay safe.
Stay safe.
Actually, Larry, most countries accept SOLAS equiptment. Some countries have specific requirements--and you must meet these requirements. For example, in Portugal, we came to an impass, since we did not carry a certified life raft. Finally I got over that we had a dinghy with flotation--and used the magic word "Balsa"--a balsa raft does not have to be certified in Portugal, and we were allowed to leave the port.
In Belgium we had to have the river/canal guide in French or Flemish--and the same in Holland but in Dutch. Didn't make any difference that we couldn't read Dutch or Flemish--we had to have the guide to proceed.
A country can make up any rule which they wish and hold you to it or deny permission to leave the port or to enter a port. Another common requirement is insurance or license. For example many EU Countries have specific "yacht" licenses, and boats may be certified for various types of voyages, as well as their masters. US and Canada have reciprocity on a number of items, so it is rarely an issue.
In Belgium we had to have the river/canal guide in French or Flemish--and the same in Holland but in Dutch. Didn't make any difference that we couldn't read Dutch or Flemish--we had to have the guide to proceed.
A country can make up any rule which they wish and hold you to it or deny permission to leave the port or to enter a port. Another common requirement is insurance or license. For example many EU Countries have specific "yacht" licenses, and boats may be certified for various types of voyages, as well as their masters. US and Canada have reciprocity on a number of items, so it is rarely an issue.
I just bought a Lifesling 2 for my boat, so I was looking up info about it. Here's what I learned:
It's a USCG Type V device, but at every turn you encounter language like this:
"Suitable for powerboats with a lifting point 10 ft above the water."
"Lifesling is USCG Approved for powerboats that have a hoisting point at least 10 ft above the deck."
"All boats may carry an original Lifesling, but to replace the traditional USCG-approved ring, horseshoe buoy or throwable cushion, the boat must be [...] a powerboat with a lifting point at least 10 feet above the water."
In other words, don't throw away your throwable cushions just yet!
It's a USCG Type V device, but at every turn you encounter language like this:
"Suitable for powerboats with a lifting point 10 ft above the water."
"Lifesling is USCG Approved for powerboats that have a hoisting point at least 10 ft above the deck."
"All boats may carry an original Lifesling, but to replace the traditional USCG-approved ring, horseshoe buoy or throwable cushion, the boat must be [...] a powerboat with a lifting point at least 10 feet above the water."
In other words, don't throw away your throwable cushions just yet!
I bought a Lifesling 2 for my boat also, but not with the intention of replacing my throwable cushion. I bought it to supplement, not supplant the other safety device.
MOB is an important topic to think about, but I worry much more about COB (Child Over Board) and that's the reason I bought mine.
Another thread being discussed right now is on the subject of figuring out a tackle system that can lift a person high enough to get him/her over the side of the boat. I'm not worried about that either. I can lift my children out of the water...and add some adrenaline to the mix and I could probably throw my child into the air on his way into the boat.
Why I bought a Lifesling 2 is simple, if either of my children fall into the water anytime other than when I'm docked, I'm going to have to go in after him! I made my living responding to emergencies and it's been my experience that 99 and 44/100% of the population panics the minute something goes wrong. I'm sure my children will too if they fall overboard and into 45 degree water. To expect them to grab a throwable cushion or a Lifesling is pure fantasy (my children are 2 and 5 years old). I figure with the Lifesling, when I'm in the water I'll have extra bouyancy and a line that is securely attached to my boat which I can use to pull the two of us back to the boat. From there I KNOW I'll find the strength to get us both on-board.
Not the greatest plan, but a plan none-the-less.
It would be wonderful if this Lifesling were USCG approved and/or we all had easy access to the appropriate lifting tackle, but for $79 on sale...it is damn sure better than only throwing someone a floating cushion.
Sad, I don't even own shares of the stock.
-Sarge/Carl
MOB is an important topic to think about, but I worry much more about COB (Child Over Board) and that's the reason I bought mine.
Another thread being discussed right now is on the subject of figuring out a tackle system that can lift a person high enough to get him/her over the side of the boat. I'm not worried about that either. I can lift my children out of the water...and add some adrenaline to the mix and I could probably throw my child into the air on his way into the boat.
Why I bought a Lifesling 2 is simple, if either of my children fall into the water anytime other than when I'm docked, I'm going to have to go in after him! I made my living responding to emergencies and it's been my experience that 99 and 44/100% of the population panics the minute something goes wrong. I'm sure my children will too if they fall overboard and into 45 degree water. To expect them to grab a throwable cushion or a Lifesling is pure fantasy (my children are 2 and 5 years old). I figure with the Lifesling, when I'm in the water I'll have extra bouyancy and a line that is securely attached to my boat which I can use to pull the two of us back to the boat. From there I KNOW I'll find the strength to get us both on-board.
Not the greatest plan, but a plan none-the-less.
It would be wonderful if this Lifesling were USCG approved and/or we all had easy access to the appropriate lifting tackle, but for $79 on sale...it is damn sure better than only throwing someone a floating cushion.
Sad, I don't even own shares of the stock.
-Sarge/Carl
I just had an inspection by the Power Squadron down on Grand Lake, OK. The inspector had never seen nor heard of the lifesling which I had installed on my aft, Starboard rail. He would not count it as a throwable device. I always keep the throwables around for knee cushions and additional seating height, so he OK'ed those as throwables.
I was amazed that he had no knowledge of, nor any interest in, the Lifesling system!
John
I was amazed that he had no knowledge of, nor any interest in, the Lifesling system!
John
Carl, Tim,
We have a lifesling 2 on Kingfisher and I attach the very spendy but very strong 5:1 block and tackle that is recommended for it to the cross member of the radar arch. That is as near 10 ft as is possible.
I don't care if the CG counts it as I carry 2 throwables anyway.
Our rational was that there is no way in heck that we could get either one of us (or a third party any larger than a child) back in the boat if they were disabled or unable to get up the swim step.
Will take some pictures if you want
Merv
We have a lifesling 2 on Kingfisher and I attach the very spendy but very strong 5:1 block and tackle that is recommended for it to the cross member of the radar arch. That is as near 10 ft as is possible.
I don't care if the CG counts it as I carry 2 throwables anyway.
Our rational was that there is no way in heck that we could get either one of us (or a third party any larger than a child) back in the boat if they were disabled or unable to get up the swim step.
Will take some pictures if you want
Merv
OK, Joe..... NO, that's how the new combines look around here!
While this may not be the place to post it, I did have an accidental "falling-in" the water a week ago which left me in the lake without that dive ladder in place.
As some have already mentioned, I climbed atop the Perma-Trim fin and pushed the engine tilt switch right there closeby on the Honda 150, and got "elevated" right up the the swim step!!!
'Learned several lessons at once..... 1- always be prepared 2- it's expensive to have to hire a diver to retrieve your more expensive glasses dropped into the deep 3- less expensive to keep "floaties" neck straps on them 4 - As old Woodie, the retired Merchant marineman of my youth preached 40 years ago, "Anything you care about needs a landyard!"
some other lessons too
JOhn
While this may not be the place to post it, I did have an accidental "falling-in" the water a week ago which left me in the lake without that dive ladder in place.
As some have already mentioned, I climbed atop the Perma-Trim fin and pushed the engine tilt switch right there closeby on the Honda 150, and got "elevated" right up the the swim step!!!
'Learned several lessons at once..... 1- always be prepared 2- it's expensive to have to hire a diver to retrieve your more expensive glasses dropped into the deep 3- less expensive to keep "floaties" neck straps on them 4 - As old Woodie, the retired Merchant marineman of my youth preached 40 years ago, "Anything you care about needs a landyard!"
some other lessons too
JOhn
Fortunately, My sis was aboard and shut off the engines right away. Had she not been there, there would have been NO WAY for me to get back up into the boat!!!
I'm thinking about getting one of those flexible ladder packs that hangs from the railing with a trailer rope that you can pull and the ladder drops down.
John
I'm thinking about getting one of those flexible ladder packs that hangs from the railing with a trailer rope that you can pull and the ladder drops down.
John
Merv,
You mentioned:
and:
With regard to "spendy" that's a relative term when it comes to a person's children. There are the costs that are associated with raising them and then there is their worth...priceless.
I'd love to see photos of your set up and maybe some information on installation, etc.
Thanks a bunch,
-Carl
You mentioned:
and:
With regard to "spendy" that's a relative term when it comes to a person's children. There are the costs that are associated with raising them and then there is their worth...priceless.
I'd love to see photos of your set up and maybe some information on installation, etc.
Thanks a bunch,
-Carl
A while ago someone was asking about a comealong that uses rope. It just occurred to me that that kind of comealong might be just the thing to use with the lifesling, to help overcome some of the deficiencies of the lifesling on C-Dories. Bob also mentioned here the possible use of a sailboat winch for that purpose.
Even with a 5:1 mechanical hoist advantage, could your significant other lift you into the boat? I don't think mine could.
Warren
Even with a 5:1 mechanical hoist advantage, could your significant other lift you into the boat? I don't think mine could.
Warren
drjohn71a":zc5weysf said:
Two comments here.
First, my aft steering station comes with a deadman lanyard. Perhaps the safety procedure is to shift into neutral when away from the helm while boating solo?
Second, Jim B. pointed out once that those ladder deals are very difficult to use because they don't hang straight down. Once you put your weight on a rung, it curves under the hull. I don't know if I could deploy it from the water, but Brent on Discovery installed a 3-rung stainless ladder on his bow. It worked well for going ashore at the lake and might be a good for getting out of the water also.
Warren