Limits of a C -Dory 16
- Thread starter Osprey48
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Safetythird
New member
I've been out in some decent rollers-no idea the height, but at least 3' with a very short frequency and 20 knot winds.
I can't say I was comfy or making good time, but I never felt concerned for my safety.
I chose not to repeat said performance.
Or in other words, pick your days and the boat will likely handle more than you want to.
I can't say I was comfy or making good time, but I never felt concerned for my safety.
I chose not to repeat said performance.
Or in other words, pick your days and the boat will likely handle more than you want to.
Osprey48":35v0js6r said:
A C Dory 16 does not self bail (that means that any water which gets into the cockpit stays there until you pump it out with an electric or manual bilge pump. I consider any boat which is not "self bailing" to be safe for a new boat owner only in very calm waters.
I am very familiar with Sequim having kept a boat in John Wayne Marina for 4 years. The straits of Juan de Luca can be very rough. I certainly would never intentionall take a C Dory 16 or 22 into an area where there were 3 foot steep waves! 20 knots of wind normally does not generate 3' waves, unless a long fetch and wind against current.
You can go into Sequim Bay, and nearby waters on calm days. But always be aware of what the weather is going to be in the next few hours. We had a person buy a C Dory cruiser and take it out one time on the bay where I live (6 miles fetch max) and maybe 1 foot waves. They sold the boat.
Experienced boaters have taken the 16 thru many of the Gulf and San Juan Islands. I believe several have done at least most of the passage to Alaska.
For a first boat, I would suggest a boat which is self bailing, even thought it does not have the cabin protection of the C Dory 16.
This is one of the very few times, that I will respectfully disagree with Bob. Perhaps he’s right with the CD16, but in my opinion with 20 seasons & 25,000 plus miles cruising our CD22 with many instances of over 3 foot very steep waves & up to at least 6 foot, we’ve never got more than wind driven splash into the cockpit other than when purposefully backing into chop, while attempting to approach an exposed to chop dock or in the process of getting the boat off & on trailer at exposed to wind chop launches. This is with starting right off on the first year without any experience in a boat comparable to a CD22, by doing three extensive cruises in SE Alaska, including some in it’s outside waters, along with very large lakes in the Yukon & British Columbia all during the 1st, 5 years, while learning from our errors. Very few other boats self bail or not in the size range of a CD22 would have done as well or allowed us to do in for what was us “considered comfort” during this learning curve period. I believe it’s high capability & ease of use, a primary reason, we have fared so well on our cruising adventures, while learning & gaining experience by doing.
I’m not disagreeing, that a large breaking wave over the stern of a CD22 might bring on a non recoverable situation in which a self bailing boat has a better chance of handling, just that it’s going to take much more than a steep three footer & more like someone actually foolish enough to back into 2 foot plus seas or routinely running during small craft warning conditions. Last summer in SE Alaska off the east coast of Baranof Island, I was drifting in steep four foot seas after having the dingy flip & me, by myself, trying to remove it’s motor & get dingy upright in these conditions for approximately 20 minutes, without any water getting into the cockpit or me concerned for my welfare, in fact I told the boat with me at the time to go on, as I & the boat could handle the situation & I couldn’t see where He could be of any help.
In many of the sea conditions we’ve experienced & handled well in the CD22, I personally wouldn’t have wanted to be in a CD16 & think a CD25 though no doubt much more comfortable, not a whole lot safer, even with it’s self bailing. After seeing many larger boats running in the same rough conditions as us over the years & cruising for a summer with both a Ranger Tug 23 & Tomcat 255, I think the CD16 much less capable than a CD22 compared to a CD22 & many other boats in the 22 to 28 foot range.
Of course in the right hands a CD16 has been shown to be extremely capable by several of our fellow Brats, but here I agree with Bob, not the best choice for the inexperienced wanting to boat rougher waters.
Jay
I’m not disagreeing, that a large breaking wave over the stern of a CD22 might bring on a non recoverable situation in which a self bailing boat has a better chance of handling, just that it’s going to take much more than a steep three footer & more like someone actually foolish enough to back into 2 foot plus seas or routinely running during small craft warning conditions. Last summer in SE Alaska off the east coast of Baranof Island, I was drifting in steep four foot seas after having the dingy flip & me, by myself, trying to remove it’s motor & get dingy upright in these conditions for approximately 20 minutes, without any water getting into the cockpit or me concerned for my welfare, in fact I told the boat with me at the time to go on, as I & the boat could handle the situation & I couldn’t see where He could be of any help.
In many of the sea conditions we’ve experienced & handled well in the CD22, I personally wouldn’t have wanted to be in a CD16 & think a CD25 though no doubt much more comfortable, not a whole lot safer, even with it’s self bailing. After seeing many larger boats running in the same rough conditions as us over the years & cruising for a summer with both a Ranger Tug 23 & Tomcat 255, I think the CD16 much less capable than a CD22 compared to a CD22 & many other boats in the 22 to 28 foot range.
Of course in the right hands a CD16 has been shown to be extremely capable by several of our fellow Brats, but here I agree with Bob, not the best choice for the inexperienced wanting to boat rougher waters.
Jay
I guess it's how you define self bailing. The only time I got significant water in the cockpit was because I forgot to put the drain plug in. I was launching the boat and got distracted somehow. I found out that there was a lot of water in the cockpit was when I stepped into it. As an aside, if you have a wooden floor for the cockpit it can float on top of any water in the cockpit, kind of disguising that the cockpit is flooded.
Anyway, getting the boat up on plane got all the water out through the drain plug hole (the bilge pump was also going). Putting a drain plug in from the inside of the boat prevented water from re-entering when going off plane.
Anyway, getting the boat up on plane got all the water out through the drain plug hole (the bilge pump was also going). Putting a drain plug in from the inside of the boat prevented water from re-entering when going off plane.
Marco Flamingo
Active member
I've been in some conditions in my 16 that I can't talk about because then everyone will know that I'm a reckless idiot. Okay, I will. I got the 16 after years of whitewater kayaking where rough conditions are the goal and the boat is 7 feet shorter. And I was fortunate to WW kayak with my wife, so her idea of a scary wave is something over 5 feet. Until that point, nothing is likely to come aboard a CD 16, although the ride can be tiresome.
I was cutting across from Port Townsend to Lopez Island with the tide running out and the wind from the west. I should have waited another hour. I got into a wave train of breaking +6 foot standing waves a Partridge Point. 10 minutes of "not fun," wipers on high speed, but no real danger. We were fshing some outlying islands off of Kyuquot Sound and had to crab across 6 foot waves to get back. Cut sideways down the trough and when the next wave came, slow down and take it on the stern, then cut down the next trough for two miles. We slid sideways a few times, but my wife was more concerned about getting the fish in the freezer.
It's been said on C Brats many times that it isn't what the boat can take, it's what you can take. Probably most true with the 16. The point of "not fun" comes way sooner than "not safe."
I was cutting across from Port Townsend to Lopez Island with the tide running out and the wind from the west. I should have waited another hour. I got into a wave train of breaking +6 foot standing waves a Partridge Point. 10 minutes of "not fun," wipers on high speed, but no real danger. We were fshing some outlying islands off of Kyuquot Sound and had to crab across 6 foot waves to get back. Cut sideways down the trough and when the next wave came, slow down and take it on the stern, then cut down the next trough for two miles. We slid sideways a few times, but my wife was more concerned about getting the fish in the freezer.
It's been said on C Brats many times that it isn't what the boat can take, it's what you can take. Probably most true with the 16. The point of "not fun" comes way sooner than "not safe."
T.R. Bauer
New member
I think others have explained it pretty well. I can add a bit of anectodical information, and that is in the right hands a 16 foot boat can do things that you just shouldn't be able to do in a 16 foot boat. It's amazing where you see 16 foot skiffs up here. And it's even more amazing how many salmon I've seen them carry.
BTW, even in a self bailing boat, in my humble opinion, a large wave will more than likely be nonrecoverable in any like sized self bailing boat if a CD 22 is at risk of capsizing. The scuppers won't drain fast enough for the next 2 or 10 waves that hit you. In other words, they're both probably toast.
BTW, even in a self bailing boat, in my humble opinion, a large wave will more than likely be nonrecoverable in any like sized self bailing boat if a CD 22 is at risk of capsizing. The scuppers won't drain fast enough for the next 2 or 10 waves that hit you. In other words, they're both probably toast.
Please note that my comments were in the context of the question by Osprey48 as a first time boat owner. Also tempered by the waters which are his "home base". Those who responded are folks with vast experience and excellent sea skills.
The C Dory will handle many different types of water well. However the skill of the skipper is important. That skill has to be built. Driving any boat safely in difficult conditions is a learned skill.
One should get experience where it is safe. My kids learned to sail Sabots-- an eight foot open boat which capsizes easily--and they got wet; They had to learn to right the boat in Alamitos Bay, a very calm body of water. Next they sailed the Laser and wind surfers--craft better suited to rougher water. They had to prove swimming ability before they were allowed alone in any boat. They had to row, before they were allowed to use a motor on the dinghy. Those of us who grew up boating have a huge advantage, and often forget what it is like to be a real novice.
Ideally a new boater would have friends who took them boating, and experienced many different types of boats and conditions. Also ideally a new boater could enroll in a class such as given by the US Power Squadron or CG Auxiliary. Reading Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship is a great place to start learning about boats. Chapman's is in its 69th edition currently.
There are wonderful places to trailer any C Dory to in the Sequim area--how about Crescent Lake? I have taken both 22's and 25's there--and spent wonderful days in fresh waters on an alpine setting.
The C Dory will handle many different types of water well. However the skill of the skipper is important. That skill has to be built. Driving any boat safely in difficult conditions is a learned skill.
One should get experience where it is safe. My kids learned to sail Sabots-- an eight foot open boat which capsizes easily--and they got wet; They had to learn to right the boat in Alamitos Bay, a very calm body of water. Next they sailed the Laser and wind surfers--craft better suited to rougher water. They had to prove swimming ability before they were allowed alone in any boat. They had to row, before they were allowed to use a motor on the dinghy. Those of us who grew up boating have a huge advantage, and often forget what it is like to be a real novice.
Ideally a new boater would have friends who took them boating, and experienced many different types of boats and conditions. Also ideally a new boater could enroll in a class such as given by the US Power Squadron or CG Auxiliary. Reading Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship is a great place to start learning about boats. Chapman's is in its 69th edition currently.
There are wonderful places to trailer any C Dory to in the Sequim area--how about Crescent Lake? I have taken both 22's and 25's there--and spent wonderful days in fresh waters on an alpine setting.
Osprey48":2n51knb8 said:
John, great response so far with your question. The C-Dory 16 cross Newport, Or. bar and do fine. Choose your weather carefully and I am confident you will do fine in the 16. Thinking in terms of safety, I am more concerned that you wear a proper PFD and have a ditch bag and portable VHF Marine Radio at hand.
T.R.’s point about what he’s seen 16 foot skiffs do in Alaska, brought back an old memory of JoLee & I & our three very young boys with a open tiller controlled 16 foot skiff in the very early 1980’s on Yellowstone Lake. This was before the rule making only a small portion of the lake out from the Marina available for the rented boats & why this rule was implemented. It was also before I knew about the dangers Yellowstone Lake could create & I had extremely limited boating knowledge at this time. Having never been up to the southeast arm of the lake & wanting to see that area, we started out early in the morning on glass smooth waters. By the time, we had made it to the SE Arm & headed back up the eastern shore, the wind had come up & by the time we needed to cross back over from the eastern shore to Stevenson Island & back to the Bridge Bay Marina it was blowing very hard & this portion of the lake is where the normal summer southeast winds have the longest fetch to create the notorious conditions this large high mountain lake is known for. My family & I were very fortunate to survive the crossing that day, as two out of three in an identical skiff in the same general area didn’t, when their skiff capsized. Due to these deaths, the 16 foot skiffs with their 25 hp motors were switched to rentable row boats only & confined to just the small bay out from Bridge Bay & new much more capable 19 foot high bow boats with 40 hp helm controlled motors were brought in to replace the 16 foot skiffs & they are still now confined to a much smaller portion of the lake. The area of 5 foot very steep short spaced waves, we crossed that day was about 5 miles. The details of the deaths in the other boat on that day is detailed in the book “Death in Yellowstone: Accidents and Foolhardiness in the First National Park” by Lee H. Whittlesey.
Those skiff were very capable, but I don’t know by how much in comparison to a CD16.
As to Gary’s point on the priority of safety gear. On our Yellowstone experience we only had the old cushion seats for PFDs & no VHF radio & the same with those in the other boat. Most likely those deaths would have been prevented if they had been available, but maybe not as the water there that day was very cold & survival time in the water very limited.
Jay
Those skiff were very capable, but I don’t know by how much in comparison to a CD16.
As to Gary’s point on the priority of safety gear. On our Yellowstone experience we only had the old cushion seats for PFDs & no VHF radio & the same with those in the other boat. Most likely those deaths would have been prevented if they had been available, but maybe not as the water there that day was very cold & survival time in the water very limited.
Jay
Tippy Canoe
New member
Our 16ft C-Dory Angler is our first boat - we consider it our starter boat to gain experience before we get a larger boat. What we have learned so far is that it is a very seaworthy boat and after a few interesting launches we became comfortable with our boat, feeling secure. Being a small, light boat it has a propensity to "bob" when in waves. The action can be a bit disconcerting until you adjust to it. Also, a pilot house boat handles differently in the wind and requires more awareness. The 16ft. Angler gives you so much open deck space for your crabbing or fishing gear - we crab with six pots onboard easily. We run two Scotty downriggers on it as well. We figure if you can handle a bobbing 16 footer, moving up in size should be easily attained! Hope you find the right boat for your new adventures!
Paul and Vicky
Paul and Vicky
T.R. Bauer
New member
I'd go ahead and buy a good condition CD 16 (if that is the one you want) and do what Bob said, go out to Crescent Lake or Sutherland and get a feel for it in a safe place. In fact, that is good advice for any boat you end up buying.
While my 16 cruiser isn't my first boat it is the biggest boat I have owned. Coming from jet skis and gheenoes probably affects my point of view but I am constantly amazed by what this little boat can take. Im in the gulf of Mexico so conditions aren't near as bad as I imagine the PNW is but even in chop or windy days with confused seas my 16 eats it up at 18mph with the right trim. And when a big yacht comes buy throwing big wake all I have to do is drop the speed down to around 10 and the hull does all the work. It definitely is a "cork in the water" but personally im the kind of person that loves roller coasters and trampolines so I enjoy the excitement of it!
This discussion reminded me that many years ago I crossed the Atlantic on a heavy cruiser, the USS Albany. Next to us, on our starboard, was the battleship Wisconsin. We were followed by two destroyers, the Vogelsang and one other, and two tankers, the Caloosahatche and the Allagash. On Sunday the band would play on the Wisconsin's quarterdeck as we glided seamlessly across the water. The little Vogelsang would pull up, bobbing and weaving, to hear the music.
I never met a destroyer sailor who wanted to be on a battleship or a cruiser.
I never met a destroyer sailor who wanted to be on a battleship or a cruiser.
MartyP you're right about no Destroyer (tin can) sailor ever wanted to be on a Cruiser. I was stationed on two Gearing Class tin cans DD710 USS Gearing and DD709 USS Hugh Purvis and made that trip across the Atlantic in the tail end of a hurricane so know what its all about to 'bob and weave' haha. After 3 years on tin cans and then for my last 6 months transferred to a Light Cruiser CLG4 USS Little Rock and couldn't stand it. Go Navy!
Schuster":3ufg6t5h said:
..and regarding flat bottom vessels, As a hospital corpsman I was transferred to the Seabees in '57. During a winter storm in January we rode an LST from Davisville Rhode Island to Grand Turk Island in the British West Indies.
Anyway, all those ships are now razorblades and we're still here to talk about and enjoy all the very seaworthy C-Dorys.