Locking problem at the St. Lucy Lock Florida

Thanks John for the update on the St. Lucie Lock. You had Joyce and I laughing in stitches! Funny how the lock tender makes it sound like THEY fixed a problem that was actually of THEIR making. Ken did a great job rectifying the situation. Glad to hear that you had no major problems locking through.
Safe Journeys……Tom
 
starcrafttom":20zxktd3 said:
Oh what the hell... You show up at a lock , a lock that has helpers that have helped thousands of boaters of all types and all sizes for years, and waste every ones time reinventing the wheel and then act surprised on how you where treaded? I would have told you to go away after one minute. Despite what you think the lock keeper has no choice. He much follow the rule because if he does not his job is on the line. The same type of people that will argue with him are the same type that will spin a 180 and blame / sue if some thing goes wrong. Their lawyers will use the fact that he allowed you to not follow the rules as the bases for the lawsuit of damages that resulted from you not following the rules.

If you are not able or confrontable to be on the bow maybe its time to sell your boat. but the completely obvious solution is to open the front hatch and stand on the berth while handling the lines. This is where Susan handles the front lines or anchoring duties from. She is unable to stand safely on the bow most of the time.

Oh and I any not here to have a back and forth what if discussion. You dance with the devil he leads. You use the lock you follow the rules.
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:lol: :lol: :thup YUP! Rules are for THEE not for ME!

:roll:
 
I am concerned about locking through a window single handed. I had assumed that if I was single & had a cockpit (rear) steering station, that I would be able to stand in the cockpit near the rear controls & grab one line. Could any of y'all tell me how locking through single handed is supposed to be done? Many Thanks in advance.
 
I do have a cockpit helm on my 25 and lock from there. My 22 did not have a cockpit helm. I would simply position myself then go grab the lines or bollards from the cockpit. With bollards it’s better as you wrap a bow and stern line around it and hold the ends from the cockpit. Lines were a little more tricky, but would grab one and stand on the opposite side of the boat as that gave some directional force to keep the boat on the wall. Once you are in a lock, there is not much windage or current, so once you are in position and quickly get back to the cockpit you should be able to grab lines or the bollard.
 
Single line will often be a problem. Some way of working both window and cockpit lines would be best. Also lines can be slimy or have growth. Gloves advised. Also fenders in garbage bags or other protective system, to avoid tearing them up or badly soiling them on lock walls.
 
I would not advise pulling lock lines thru the window or cabin. If you are at the front of your cockpit, you are pretty close to the center of the boat. When two lines are necessary, the lock tender will usually assist in getting them to you. My experience with single hand lockage is pretty extensive with lockings on the Mississippi, Illinois, Tennessee, Cumberland, Snake, Columbia, Erie, Michigan Inland Waterway, and even on a small local river lock. I've never tried the garbage bags on fenders, and think they would rip apart. I did use to have cloth covers on my fenders, but now days just use them naked. I do rinse them off right away after going through a lock. Some lock lines can be slimy, like those on the Erie, or that are left down permanently. Dish washing gloves worked nicely. Let the lock tender know that you are solo, and they'll usually provide necessary assistance or advice, or may even run the lock a little slower to reduce any possible turbulence. If you are traveling with other boats, you might be able to raft up in the lock, or prior to entering. (If prior to entering, that will make it a little harder for the rafted on boat to maneuver.) One of the folks on our Tennessee River cruise this past fall, that was solo, watched some youtube videos, and I was not aware that was his first time locking. And he even had another boat raft on him in the lock. :)
 
Just to clarify, what I meant above, was the pulling of the line thru the window and then thru the cabin, or vise versa, to step out in the cockpit to grab the other line. I have on a few occasions with the 22, held on the line, or wood lock fendering (small locks), with my arm through the window. But 99% of the time I am able to hold lines at the front of the cockpit. If the lock has bollards, just have your fore and aft lines ready to go, and long enough to reach. Once I have the boat positioned, then it's just a matter of hooking each line over the bollard and holding the ends. In locks without bollards, where there are lines tied to the top rails and dropped down, rather I only have to use one line, or two, I will grab the line, then hold it from the opposite side of the boat, thus pulling the boat into the wall. If there are two lines, I've found the lock tender will help get one or both of those lines to you. I've only been thru one lock where you actually had to hand your own line up to the lockmaster, and in that case, she had a hook to grab it from me.
 
I never meant to imply that lines should be taken through the cabin. If you have to use lines from the amidships cleat a snatch block attatched to the cleat with straps would give a good "hand" to running the line back to the cockpit outside the boat. We used snatch blocks (a pully whose case can be opened, and the line put through the sheave and lead to some other area--usually to a powerful winch. In our sailboats these could generate 3500 lbs of pull or in some cases more. (3 speed), or lead the line to one of two anchor windlass capstans.

We don't have as extensive experience as Colby on some of those rivers and NY canal System--but have done Tennessee, Cumberland, Illinois and Mississippi river locks. We have done the locks on the Atlantic ICW, Delaware/Chesapeake Cape Cod Canal, We have done the Panama Canal 3 times (4 line handlers obligatory), the Corinth Canal, The Kiel Canal (Germany) inland locks in Holland, and Belgium, as well as a few in France. We have never done solo locking. Although most were the two of us, and a 62' 65,000 lb boat. Some were in the Cal46 which was only about 38,000 lbs displacement.

So, Colby, when you took the lines to the outside of the boat, how did you. rig them to get the mid ships cleat line back to the cockpit? I would be using a fender board over two inner wall fenders if that was a position I found myself in. I have seen expensive fenders totally ruined by lock walls. We have used both Burlap and trash bags to protect our fenders on many locks. Yes they are damaged and ruined--far better a trash bag than a $100 fender which you may not be able to replace.

I have to differ with Colby that once the boat is in the lock and gates secured that there is no turblance. Ask some of our members how their motor cowl ended up smacking the lock wall and badly damaged it. (I have a video of that, but have not shared it.)
 
I never meant to imply that lines should be taken through the cabin.
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Sorry Bob about my misunderstanding. I didn't think you would do it that way, but just came off sounding like it.


So, Colby, when you took the lines to the outside of the boat, how did you. rig them to get the mid ships cleat line back to the cockpit?
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Not sure I understand exactly what you are asking. The cleats on my boat are mounted in the aft quarter, and then just outside the forward windows. When working with a bollard, I have both a bow line (from just under the forward window) and aft line ready laying across where you would step off the boat. (When cruising, I always have four lines attached to the four cleats. The bow lines bitter ends tied to the hand rails on the back of the cabin bulkhead.) Once I'm in position, which ever side I lock on, I hook the two lines on that side over the bollard, and then just hang on to the lines, adjusting as necessary to keep the boat against the lock wall. Without bollards, but with lines that are dropped down from the top of the lock, I will grab one while standing at the front of the cockpit, move for or aft with my cockpit helm and kicker to grab the other line. Or many times if there are two lines to grab, the lock master/tender will assist in getting both lines to me. On the 22, I would get in position with my main from the cabin, go back to the cockpit, and then the lock tender would assist in getting the lines to me. (On the larger river locks that required the lock's line be used, the lock tenders usually assisted getting the lines to you, as they have to throw them down, and then bring them back up so they are not in the way of barge traffic.)

While many of the larger river locks have bollards that recreational boats can also use, the Erie Canal used mostly lines hanging from the top lock rails, or heavy lines tied at the top and bottom of the lock. Many times if the lock tender didn't mind, I would actually use the safety ladders to hang on to, as they were secure and I could actually hold the boat more secure by grabbing on to those. On the Erie, Rosanne was with me, and while in the beginning I had her picking up the back line from the cockpit and I would pick up the forward line by reaching through the front window, we finally ran into a situation where she ended up hurting herself. (Communication issue. I had told her to grab the aft line, but hang on to it as I needed to pull forward in order to reach the front line, these lines were about 30' apart and were a bit short. I did not mean for her to hang on for dear life, but she did, and received a rope burn.) After that, I ended up catching both lines myself since I frequently solo in locks. Most the lines were long enuf, so I could pick up one and then motor ahead with my kicker and cockpit helm to reach the other line. Without the cockpit helm and kicker, this would have been a bit harder and would have required assistance from the lock tender. Anyway, this is how I have worked in on first my 22, without a cockpit helm and I would have to get into position first and then run back to the cockpit, and on my 25 where I lock from the cockpit helm.

I have seen expensive fenders totally ruined by lock walls
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I have ruined fender covers, but not fenders. :mrgreen: And I usually have the fenders right up against the lock wall. Yes, they get dirty and grimy. But rinsing them off right away helps to make cleanup a lot easier later. Yes, you'll notice my fenders are not purely white anymore. :wink:

I have to differ with Colby that once the boat is in the lock and gates secured that there is no turblance. Ask some of our members how their motor cowl ended up smacking the lock wall and badly damaged it. (I have a video of that, but have not shared it.)
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I'm still not sure how he and his admiral had that happen... I mean I have seen boats that have an issue with the bow or stern twisting out away from the wall, but wonder if they let one end start moving out, without adjusting lines sooner to pull it back in. There is only one time turbulence caused me an issue. This was in the double lock on the Erie Canal. We were in it by ourselves, and parked right over the top of a valve. We were locking up. The lock tender opened it up a little bit too much, and then got busy chatting with some visitors and not paying much attention to us. We caught a large air burble and I managed to keep C-Traveler on the wall. Several minutes later we caught another larger air burble and was a bit more than I could handle. I ended up letting go of the lines rather than having the kicker hit the wall, and floated free. I tried to get it back on the wall, but no luck, so went to the other side and grabbed lines there.

There are others that have single handed through a lock, both up and down. Bill on Mystery Girl comes to mind, as I've gone through many locks with him. Yes, he uses his bow thruster sometimes to help get into position, but then has to leave his cabin helm to get back to his cockpit to grab the bollard or lines. As far as positioning on the lock wall when you first come in, it's no different than accurate docking. Then stepping back quickly to grab dock cleats.
 
The latter post I made referred to turblance in the lock as water was let in or out of the lock. Some are mild, but we have been in many where there was significant turbulance. The boat involved with the lock wall was right in back of us--next time we meet I'll show you the video.

The concern is the forward line, which goes from the lock wall to the far side of your boat over the cabin top, would rub on the edge of the cabin, and cause damage to the gel coat. How did you lead this line back to the cockpit so you could keep tension on it, either up or down? Something has turn that line back to the cockpit--and thus a snatch block. Do you put the line under the forward horn of the cleat and lead it back?

The bollards are always much easier than the locks which have lines. The majority of American Locks we have been thru had lines permently on the wall of the lock. Many other world locks have you throw the lines to one of lock attendants, who secure them to the lock wall at the top, and then you let your lines in or out. Our large boat we had 4 100 foot lines, one foreward and one aft on each side of the boat, for center lock position. Then those on the boat tend each of these lines;
 
The latter post I made referred to turblance in the lock as water was let in or out of the lock. Some are mild, but we have been in many where there was significant turbulance. The boat involved with the lock wall was right in back of us--next time we meet I'll show you the video.

The concern is the forward line, which goes from the lock wall to the far side of your boat over the cabin top, would rub on the edge of the cabin, and cause damage to the gel coat. How did you lead this line back to the cockpit so you could keep tension on it, either up or down? Something has turn that line back to the cockpit--and thus a snatch block. Do you put the line under the forward horn of the cleat and lead it back?

The bollards are always much easier than the locks which have lines. The majority of American Locks we have been thru had lines permently on the wall of the lock. Many other world locks have you throw the lines to one of lock attendants, who secure them to the lock wall at the top, and then you let your lines in or out. Our large boat we had 4 100 foot lines, one foreward and one aft on each side of the boat, for center lock position. Then those on the boat tend each of these lines;
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Good evening Bob,
I don't know if I ever saw video, but I did see the photos he posted. You are not the only one I've heard report significant turbulence. I've just never felt anything in the locks (other than the one Erie lock) that I would consider significant. Perhaps like wave and chop, it's all relative. Yet I know you've had a helluva lot more boat experience than I have. Either I'm just lucky in the locks, or I've figured out a better way to keep my boat in position.
I understand your question now in regards to line positioning. To be honest, I've sat here trying to remember just how I've handled the lines when solo. I know I've gone to the other side of the boat with a line, and perhaps that's been with single line. I can visualize having to watch my line coming between the bimini and roof. (My bimini has a window curtain between, that I can take out. Or I had the bimini folded back.) And it's possible that with two lines, I had the forward line come across the roof. Most likely, during that time I was in the bottom half of the lockage, so with the angle from above, there was little rubbing on the roof. I guess I'll have to pay attention next time I'm in a lock with lines to see exactly what I do. It's all kind of second nature now and I don't even think about it. Also, most my lockings have been with the bollards. I believe most the Mississippi Locks used lines, and it's been a few years since I've been on the Mississippi. The Erie Canal had lines, and I barely remember holding both lines while sitting on the gunnel on the lock wall side of the boat. (Or it's possible I only used one line). I also remember once or twice leaving the kicker run and using it to help keep the boat parallel to the lock wall. (From the cockpit helm). Whatever I did, it seemed to work, as other than the Erie, I can't remember ever having much of a problem. But no, I never used a tackle block or anything to "pulley" the lines. I'm beginning to think in locks using lines hanging down from above, I rarely used two lines, and rather just used one...but held the line from the center of the boat, just behind the cabin bulkhead.
 
On the Erie Canal on my 22, it is not usually possible to grab two lines (the boat is too short). Using one line is not a problem, but you might have some issues with the boat twisting. This is not usually a problem unless the lock wall has some chunks out of it than could potentially catch the boat if it twists into the gap. It is just a question of managing the twist.

As mentioned, being able to hang on to the ladder at the front and the back of the lock is easier when single handling a smaller boat.
 
Hi friends,

Yesterday we breezed through the Franklin lock on our OWW cruise, our 226th lock in this boat. Like 99% it was ‘Cat O’ Mine secure, lifejackets on, engines and radar off, standing by on 13 for exiting permission.’ We learned from our Infamous Joe Wheeler Locking Incident of 2018 (among others) and installed ‘locking cleats’ just aft of the cabin so Eileen never leaves the cockpit and I grab a rope from the helm window. I always choose a starboard tie, regardless of wind or current, so I can reach the engine controls without ‘running out of rope’ to hang onto, for just the kind of situation Colby describes.

We had an eerily similar episode in the St Lucie lock. We already had permission to enter as soon as the green light came on. A 45 foot power cat pulled up behind us and was also told ‘lifejackets required, select and hold a bow and stern line.’ We pulled forward as far as practical on the stbd wall so the fat cat wouldn’t have to be beside us (we were first, so we got to choose). We knew it was a 13 foot lift and that there would be turbulence when the gate was opened 6 inches, but we didn’t want to be beside the fat cat with limited options. The fat cat entered and cleated off a bow and midboat rope with their stern up against the rear gate and meandered about their boat without PFD’s on. Eileen called out several times to them, ‘Don’t you want to move forward a little bit so the gates can close?’ but they didn’t seem to know what a gate is or that their boat was on one. Eventually the lockmaster radioed them in very terse and explicit terms to move forward. So they moved fully beside us. The torrential surge when the forward gate was cracked was worse than expected. Eileen had no problem with a single turn under the lower end of her vertical 8” cleat, but the boat veered into the current and I simply couldn’t hold onto the 1” thick rope without it slipping through both hands despite dimpled roughneck gloves. I got a 2 inch gash on my arm from the pressure on the window frame despite both feet against the boat. The bow kept closing with the fat cat so I let go with one hand to push the Start button on the port engine, turned the wheel toward the wall and throttled up to 1000 RPM. Unlike the 2018 Incident, the engine never hit the wall because we now use bigger fenders and place them closer to the engine bracket. Eventually we settled close to the wall with engine and steering power. At times the current seemed over 5-6 MPH, and this boat doesn’t like to get sideways to that. The fat cat was cleated off and didn’t seem to have any issues.

I’m 70, 145 pounds who does 110 pound arm pulls on the gym machine 3 times a week. I think it was ver 150-200 pounds of force on that rope before I started the engine. The fat cat didn’t seem prone to wander in the current, thank goodness, or it could have crushed us. Or maybe having cleats at both ends kept it in control. Now I’m determined to place a locking cleat by the helm window sosmehow. I don’t know if a snatch block could hold a rope over an inch thick but perhaps an option.

Eileen is a retired Surgery and Wound RN. After we got safely out of the lock, she glanced at my cut arm and said:

“How the HELL are we going to get all that blood off the mouse fur? Do you think the Folex carpet stain remover will do it?”

I said: “Yes, Dear”. If you’ve been happily married for over 40 years, then you know that is always the correct response, even when it isn’t your initial thought. The Folex worked.

Now we like Polyform F3 fenders, which were on clearance at West Marine for $17 each with free shipping, so I bought eight hoping it is a lifetime supply.

https://www.westmarine.com/polyform-f-3 ... %20Docking

The F3 fender cover is $43 each. We never had good results with the garbage bag trick or cutting the legs off old Goodwill jeans etc etc and now just replace them every 50 locks or 5 years. A Mister Eraser will sometimes work.

Bob, if you send me that video clip I’ll post it to our OWW blog (up to 120 seconds allowed) for others to learn from. Too bad I didn’t think about turning on the port engine at the Joe Wheeler Incident.
https://findpenguins.com/ancient-isles/ ... ll-hontoon

For solo locking at ‘dangling rope’ locks, I’d consider bigger fenders as far forward and aft as possible and be prepared to start the outer engine. IIRC many of the Canadian locks require a crew of two.

Cheers!
John
 
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