Lost my anchor today

[redbaronace]

Was out today fishing for ling cod over a known shipwreck site (possession). We dropped anchor in 70 feet of water to maintain our position near the structure.

The wind was around 15-20 knots and waves were 3 feet high. When it was time to go, we tried to retrieve the anchor using our windlass but discovered it was stuck. We called Starcraft Tom and he gave advice to tie off to bow cleat and try to motor at 45 degrees into where the anchor was stuck. We tried to do that but it seemed like too much pressure on the building on bow and the anchor was really stuck.

Because I needed to be back to the marina for an appointment, we reluctantly cut the rope and left.

My question is 2 fold. What would you have done to release a very stuck anchor in somewhat difficult water?

Also, if someone has recommendations on what anchor style and weight, chain size and rope do you recommend for my 24 Tomcat. I am in Puget Sound.

 

[digger]

The only thing I can suggest is that sometimes if you are pulling hard and able to release it instantaneously, it may "swim" a bit to a different position. Sometimes then the bite it had has moved to make retrieval possible. Also pulling on it from different directions sometimes moves it some, and reduces the bite.

 

[rogerbum]

Hmmm... lots of things to discuss here. I'm waiting to hear Bob chip in but 1) Why 45 degrees to the way in which it was set? Generally I would go straight back in the opposite direction of the set retrieving line until I was about over the anchor. Then I'd tie off to the bow cleat and continue in the same direction. If that didn't work I'd go off at an alternate angle. 2) What was the indication that "too much pressure was building on the bow"? Without being there at the time, it's hard to know if you got nervous too early. But in general, I've found I can pull much harder than I initially imagined. 3) If you are really stuck hard, it's possible to send a length of chain down with line on either side in an attempt to get the chain around the anchor so you can pull in the opposite direction in which the anchor was set. 4) If you have a buoy, an alternative to cutting the line is to attach a buoy to if to allow you to attempt retrieval at a later time/date. 5) When you cut your line (a last resort) it would be good if the tag end was weighted down with something. Even just a lead fishing weight would be useful. I have a feeling that a lot if tackle is going to be lost to that line in the future.

 

[colobear]

Ouch! Too bad. I agree with what Roger said. I carry a length of chain, about 2', that I can attach to a spare line and slide down to the anchor to, hopefully, get it over the shank to the head, then motor in the opposite direction from the original set with the chain pulling as though the anchor has been tripped. Thankfully I've never had to actually use it. Short of that, I have basically circled the anchor pulling with a cleated line from several points to retrieve the anchor and that has worked. I know this is not what you want to hear but in your situation I think I'd have attached the cut line to my worst fender (with my boat name and home port on it) so I could come back soon to try again. As for a new anchor, The mansons are getting a lot of notice probably about a 25# for your boat, We use a Delta 14#, you may want a 22#. Were I getting a new anchor I'd look hard at the Manson. Minimum 200" of 1/2" three strand line, 30-40' of 1/4" chain. Good luck.

 

[redbaronace]

Thanks for the replies thus far.

To provide some clarification. The wind and waves were pretty substantial to the point where being on the bow was not very safe. I was getting pretty wet from 3 foot waves crashing onto and splashing over the bow. I was doing my best to stay planted while maneuvering up front on an angled freshly waxed hull. In the back of my mind was the fact that if I were to accidentally be tossed overboard, it would be difficult for the boat to make a rescue being tied to the anchor.

We tried to tie off onto the front cleat and power into the oncoming waves. The front metal piece which holds the anchor up front appeared to be under tremendous stress. We had already lost an expensive fender on this trip and I got a speeding ticket headed to the marina (first one in 10+ years). Because of this, I did not want to part with another expensive fender, add a damaged windlass or broken front cleat to the list of repairs. I decided to cut the rope and keep my losses where they were. Needless to say it was an expensive day ($130 ticket, $200+ Anchor/chain/rode, $75 fender, $100 gas.

Had I not been under some time constraints, I might have tried to google some suggestions and make additional attempts to free the anchor.

Glad to be home safe and dry. I do need to replace the fender and anchor/rode/chain. Did I mention that we did not catch any fish.

 

[redbaronace]

Ouch! Too bad. I agree with what Roger said. I carry a length of chain, about 2', that I can attach to a spare line and slide down to the anchor to, hopefully, get it over the shank to the head, then motor in the opposite direction from the original set with the chain pulling as though the anchor has been tripped. Thankfully I've never had to actually use it. Short of that, I have basically circled the anchor pulling with a cleated line from several points to retrieve the anchor and that has worked. I know this is not what you want to hear but in your situation I think I'd have attached the cut line to my worst fender (with my boat name and home port on it) so I could come back soon to try again. As for a new anchor, The mansons are getting a lot of notice probably about a 25# for your boat, We use a Delta 14#, you may want a 22#. Were I getting a new anchor I'd look hard at the Manson. Minimum 200" of 1/2" three strand line, 30-40' of 1/4" chain. Good luck.

Looked into the Manson and they seem to be quite expensive.

 

[rogerbum]

<stuff clipped>

We tried to tie off onto the front cleat and power into the oncoming waves. The front metal piece which holds the anchor up front appeared to be under tremendous stress. We had already lost an expensive fender on this trip and I got a speeding ticket headed to the marina (first one in 10+ years). Because of this, I did not want to part with another expensive fender, add a damaged windlass or broken front cleat to the list of repairs. I decided to cut the rope and keep my losses where they were. Needless to say it was an expensive day ($130 ticket, $200+ Anchor/chain/rode, $75 fender, $100 gas.

Had I not been under some time constraints, I might have tried to google some suggestions and make additional attempts to free the anchor.

Glad to be home safe and dry. I do need to replace the fender and anchor/rode/chain. Did I mention that we did not catch any fish.

Sounds like a bad day all around. When you say "The front metal piece which holds the anchor up front appeared to be under tremendous stress", do you mean the bow roller? Exactly how did you tie off the anchor to a cleat? Cleat -->anchor line --> anchor OR cleat-->anchor line ---> through bow roller --> anchor?

 

[Larry Patrick]

When I was in the Keys Marathon same thing happened. Weather got bad it was our last day to fish. Stayed a little longer than we should have. No matter which angle we pulled couldn't get it unstuck. We cut it and paid an extra $140 at boat rental. Sure hope I never lose the new manson.

 

[redbaronace]

<stuff clipped>

We tried to tie off onto the front cleat and power into the oncoming waves. The front metal piece which holds the anchor up front appeared to be under tremendous stress. We had already lost an expensive fender on this trip and I got a speeding ticket headed to the marina (first one in 10+ years). Because of this, I did not want to part with another expensive fender, add a damaged windlass or broken front cleat to the list of repairs. I decided to cut the rope and keep my losses where they were. Needless to say it was an expensive day ($130 ticket, $200+ Anchor/chain/rode, $75 fender, $100 gas.

Had I not been under some time constraints, I might have tried to google some suggestions and make additional attempts to free the anchor.

Glad to be home safe and dry. I do need to replace the fender and anchor/rode/chain. Did I mention that we did not catch any fish.

Sounds like a bad day all around. When you say "The front metal piece which holds the anchor up front appeared to be under tremendous stress", do you mean the bow roller? Exactly how did you tie off the anchor to a cleat? Cleat -->anchor line --> anchor OR cleat-->anchor line ---> through bow roller --> anchor?

We have the Lewmar 700 Pro windlass.

In order to tie to the cleat, we let out more line in order that I would have some slack for pulling the anchor line through the bow roller and wrapped around the bow cleat. As we tried to pull forward, it began to cause stress on the bow roller which was being forced downward. Even though it was now tied onto the cleat which removed the tension from the windlass, it still was causing the bow roller to want to dive downward due to the force of the boat and the pull of the stuck anchor below.

We are now looking for a new anchor, and rode.
Anybody here selling one? Probably looking for something in the 20# range.

 

[matt_unique]

As has been mentioned your engines are your friend. I would not put a load on the anchor roller and fortunately had installed bow cleats with chafe pad. I tie off to the bow cleat and try varying angles to the set to try to break it free.

If all else fails and you have to cut, I would tie a fender so you have a chance to retrieve it again when you have more time. Good reminder to ensure you always have a knife in case you HAVE to cut.

Once at Block Island anchored just off Ballard's Beach we could not get our anchor free. We were there diving so eventually I suited up and went down to find out what the problem was. We discovered our anchor, and almost every other anchor from the 20 or so other boats, had hooked a power cable running from the mainland to the island. I could have made a fortune that day if I offered to free every boat but I had to get going.

 

[nordicstallion]

I only use my boat for fishing & consider my anchor a last ditch tool to keep me off the beach in case of some sort of engine or electrical failure. My commercial fishing friends suggested a rock anchor for fishing ling & rockfish as here I fish mostly on the St. George reef. I made a rock anchor that looks more like a grapple out of a piece of heavy rebar with 1/4" rebar tines. If I get hung up, just tie off & bend the tine & she comes right up. I don't need a bombproof anchor, just an inexpensive anchor for fishing. Vern

 

[bridma]

Looked into the Manson and they seem to be quite expensive.[/quote]


Good anchor though, best I have ever owned. Maybe its a case of "you get what you pay for".

Barry, when my anchor got stuck on the way to the Sidney gathering last year, I tried the 2' chain bracelet, no success. Dr Bob mentioned that it was too small. So now my bracelet is 4'.

Martin.

 

[Chester]

You can becue the anchor when anchoring in suspect bottoms. Instead of shackling your rode to the stock of your anchor, shackle it instead to the head of the anchor. Then lash the rode to the end of the stock with some light line or zip ties, as shown in the photo.

Set the anchor as you normally would. If the anchor gets fouled and won’t break out when you try to hoist it, you then yank on the rode hard enough to break the lashing or zip ties on the stock. You’ll likely need to come up short on the rode and use your engine to do this. But once the line is broken, the rode will be pulling directly on the head of the anchor, and the anchor should release.
Some anchors, certain Mansons among them, have a slot in the stock to accomplish this.

 

[thataway]

Given the conditions, you did the correct thing. The windlass and anchor roller are not designed to take the load that you might put on it with the boat.

Also Tom gave you good and safe advice. Most likely he knew the conditions, and felt that some of the other options would be dangerous.

I don't know what wax you had used on the deck, but there are "non skid" waxes which may help prevent the slippery conditions. 3M makes one. Woody Wax is a favorite. Some of the surf board waxes are also used on decks.

The best techniques are discussed already. There are some other options, with larger boats, bigger windlass and pulpits ect--but they would not have helped in this case. A trip line can be put on the crown of the anchor, but this is frowned upon in a fishing areas, where lots of boats are fishing because of the risk of other fishing gear being tangled in that second line.

The Manson, Ronca Fisherman, and a few others do have a slot in the shank, which allow you to ride back on the anchor in the normal position--but when the anchor is stuck, you can go forward of the anchor, and then you will be pulling on the crown (in front or above the flukes). You can also :lock the shackle aft, or forward. The zip tie is a favorite.

In many areas the use of a "Wreck anchor" is very popular. This may just be some rebar tacked together, like a grapnel , by a local welding shop. If the anchor gets caught, you pull hard with the boat's engines, and then that piece of rebar straightens out. At home you take the small sledge hammer and pound it back in place. There are versions which use a larger pipe which is weighted and then the prongs are of SS.

Note that the last one, home made, still has chain to the crown, as well as the shank, with some release mechanism if stuck….

I probably would get or make some form of "Wreck anchor" for fishing. Down in the Marathon area, we see guys using these as their primary rising anchor, even when not on wrecks. Some bottom conditions they are not good, and certainly never for an overnight anchorage.

If you left a float on the cut end, with your name and phone number and "reward" on the fender there is a pretty good chance that some honest diver or larger boat operator would bring the anchor back to you. Roger makes a number of good points, including that fishing lines may snag on the nylon rode. We have had to cut rodes, and gone back to pick them up--one time just because of expediency, and danger to the boat because of very strong winds.

I certainly do like the Ronca, Manson Supreme, and I will try out the Boss, shortly (our nearest ramp is washed out after the flood)--
The Claw/bruce type is popular in the PNW because it works well in certain conditions which prevail up there--I am not a big fan, but my anchoring conditions down in FL are different. The Delta is also a great anchor, and I have been using it as a primary in most areas for the last 20 years. A good combo would be a wreck anchor, a Delta and a small Guardian, for mud or sand, where some of the others do not work as well. (The Fortress and Guardian are very similar, and improvements on the HT Danforth pattern).

My new anchoring rode, is 300 feet of Brait (8 plait) to 30 feet of 1/4" G4 chain, directly spliced to the chain with a tight back splice. I also have the Lewmar 700 Windlass.

Good luck on refitting--(and may you never had a day like the 8th of May 2014!

 

[starcrafttom]

Hi, glad you got home ok. Sorry you lost a anchor.

To be clear I was trying to describe to Red that if he motored around the anchor and got in front of it he would have a chance. I did not want him driving directly over the anchor and foul his motor. He also informed me where he was on the bar and the conditions. 60 ft of water on the north end of the bar with a 20 knot south wind is not a fun place to be and can get strange very quickly. You can not back into those sees in a tomcat , or most small boats, without taking a lot of water over the ass end. Given the location and weather combine with Red being a new boater I think any crafty heroics with second lines and chains, non of which he had, would not have been advised. I did recommend tying off a buoy for later retrieval. My first choice would have been using a large shrimp buoy and a quick clip sent down the line to float it out from the opposite direction of set.

It also bring up the idea that Chester illustrated. How many of us have our anchors rigged right?? Not me. keep meaning to get to it but don't. If Red would have set up his anchor right he would still have it.

 

[westward]

Sorry you lost your gear; sounds like a frustrating day all around. But you acted safely and conservatively and got the boat/passengers home intact. What might seem logical and reasonable the next day is very different than dealing with your boat bucking in 3 foot waves with your bow roller bending, the wind whipping, and maybe rain pouring down. Your instinct not to spend undue time on the bow was a very good one. You can replace the anchor and now you have some additional sea experience. I was planning to fish for lings in the exact same spot yesterday but cancelled because I'm getting over a nasty cold. I don't even have an anchoring system yet so I would've been bounced around all day and probably skunked as well. BTW: what do you think about the Rocna anchor as an alternative? Regards, Mike.

 

[redbaronace]

Good news from all this is that I will have a new anchor and rode. The line was getting somewhat worn from too many trips up and down the windlass and probably from age as well.

I am going to get the Manson Supreme as I like the built in feature of sliding shackle. Right now im deciding between the 15 and 25lb versions. Both apparently can cover my boat. Would most folks opt for the next bigger size?

Will probably be a $500 anchor setup when all is said and done. At least its an upgrade to what I had. Hopefully this will be the last anchor I purchase for this boat.

 

[localboy]

Brian, personally, I'd go bigger. We bought the Delta 14# and so far it has been adequate, but it's at the lower end of size/weight for our boat. I wished I had spent a little more and got the 22#. I tried to remedy it by going heavy/long on chain; we run 50'. Like I said; so far so good. But we have dragged that setup in some strong winds and have had to re-set. Luckily, it was NOT overnight. Have you checked w/ Fisheries on their price? I have "an account" so you can use it and get the lower price.

Sorry about the loss, but it happens. Remind me the next time I see you to tell you about our first dinghy that blew off the boat....on I-5. :x Live and learn.....

 

[bridma]

Good news from all this is that I will have a new anchor and rode. The line was getting somewhat worn from too many trips up and down the windlass and probably from age as well.

I am going to get the Manson Supreme as I like the built in feature of sliding shackle. Right now im deciding between the 15 and 25lb versions. Both apparently can cover my boat. Would most folks opt for the next bigger size?

Will probably be a $500 anchor setup when all is said and done. At least its an upgrade to what I had. Hopefully this will be the last anchor I purchase for this boat.

I have the 15lb Manson Supreme and am very happy with it. But your boat is bigger and heavier than mine, go with the 25lb MS, you will be glad you did.

Martin.

 

[thataway]

Go for the 25. I would still get a cheap wreck anchor--either have it made up, or buy one--does not have to be made for real severe conditions. When the conditions are severe, you should be heading home.

After Tom's comment--It brings to mind the 3 football players who were lost in the Gulf Of Mexico in a 21 foot Everglade trying to get the anchor by pulling off the stern. Conditions very similar to what you describe, in 2009.
Only one of 4 came home--in your case everyone came home! You were prudent.