Major Kenyon Kiss malfunction

B

bmacpiper

New member
Howdy all, hope you are enjoying the great weather. Had three days on the Columbia chasing sturgeon, lots of fish but no keepers this time out.

While there, we were making morning coffee. You may recall that I recently had to clean out my regulator to get the Kiss to light, but all has been well since then.

Well, as I boiled my second pot of water on Saturday, I kept smelling a plastic-like burning smell, and kept checking all around the stove, underneath, etc. for something in contact with the burner. Couldn't find anything.

As the water began to boil, I pulled the kettle off to pour into the coffee press, and was fairly surprised to find that the burner had melted, deformed, and sprung at least one leak. There was fire out the burner holes, but also below the burner and back towards the canister, etc. As a fireman who has worked a number of boat fires (big, hot, nasty and fast), believe me when I say this got my attention. I shut it down, and fortunately it went out on its own.

In my previous thread "how full is butane when empty?", I noted that the plastic insulation around the piezo sparker was all burned away, and perhaps that should have been my first clue that the stove has a design flaw. In any case, there is something seriously awry with this stove.

I haven't reached Kenyon yet, but I will of course be asking for a full replacement, warranty or no warranty. There is obviously a serious defect in the metallurgy and/or design of this stove, or so it would seem. I keep trying to come up with a scenario where the metal in a burner would melt and deform at a lower temperature than that produced by the combustion of its intended fuel, and can't seem to come up with one. Ideas?

I will post back to the list with Kenyon's response, including recall info if appropriate.

In the meantime, if you have one of these stoves, I'd sure keep my eye on it. I love the simplicity of the stove, but...

Boy do I ever feel like I dodged a bullet. Swimming away from my burning boat anchored in the mighty Columbia is not my idea of a good day of fishing!!!

Best,
bmc
 
Please do post what comes of your question to Kenyon. I have this same stove on my boat. I've only fired it up to make sure it lights, but never really used it.
 
BMC,

You are definitely not alone, and the problem does not appear to be new. Here's one 2009 post from a thread titled "H26O Kenyon KISS stove problems" on another forum:
"I put a new can in, first there was a hissing noise then it stopped so I lit the stove with a pan on it . I smelled something burning and lifted the pan to see a fire below the burner as I was reaching for the fire exstinguisher I heard and felt a big woomp and the fire was a foot tall, as luck would have I was able to put the fire out with only possible damage to the stove."

The thread contains some discussion about possible causes and about manufacturer's responses to complaints. Here's a link: hunter sailboat owners' forum
 
Quick search found many site's and board post about this unit catching fire or leaking fuel. As stated it lookes like the unit is no longer being made and parts are hard to come by. Good luck with your letter to the company, others have not done well going that road.
 
Known problem. I agree, watch these stoves very carefully. I am semi forced to use a portable propane stove on the "new" 22, and keep the stove and propane cly outside of the cabin, unless it is being used--cooking outdoors when possible. As some of you know my very close friend was badly burned with a propane stove which leaked the fuel and then exploded. He made it, but not after over a million dollars worth of medical care--and about 4 months in a burn unit, dialysis coma for 3 months etc....
 
OK, just got off the stove with Frank at Kenyon, 860-664-4906. He was super nice and helpful.

He mentioned that they've had a lot of calls of the flare-up mentioned by others, and that basic maintenance they recommend is to always remove the butane cartridge from the stove when not in use, and to put a drop of 30-weight oil on the cartridge when inserting from time to time to lubricate the seals.

When he heard what had happened, he said he hadn't had that problem surface before and was very apologetic and glad it didn't lead to a fire. He immediately offered to replace the stove with a B61144, which is a combo alcohol/electric stove. He also said they have a full sheet metal shop, and that they've created a stainless deck that holds the replacement stove and hides the hole from the original stove (the new one is smaller). Here's a link to the replacement:
http://kenyonappliances.com/product/show/id/93

It can be used away from port with alcohol, and in port it has an 1100W burner that can be used with shore power. He did mention that the alcohol portion doesn't put out as much heat as the butane version, and I said that had been my favorite aspect of the butane one--quick boil of water, etc. He then said, "Though I could rebuild your butane stove, I'd really like to steer you towards the replacement stove. You probably also have a bunch of butane canisters still, so I can also send you one of our portable butane stoves for camping, and you can always use that on board if you need extra output, etc."

So in the end, we'll get both the combo alcohol/electric onboard stove, and the portable butane one. He is shipping them out today, and then will generate a return ticket with UPS for the old stove, which of course they want to look at to see what went wrong.

I feel like they really took care of the problem as well as could be expected, and am looking forward to the replacement.

All the best,
Ben
 
Excellent customer response. Although the non pressurized Alcohol stoves are safer than the pressurized, there are still disadvantages of alcohol.

I certainly agree with removal of the cartridge in any propane stove. That is what we do. Never leave it in place, unless we are going to use it immediately, and both the stove and propane go into the port Lazarette which drains overboard.
 
As one who has seen the nearly invisible fire of an alcohol fire several times in a lab setting, I personally won't have an alcohol stove on the boat. Like Bob, I also feel much better about using propane or butane outside of the enclosed cabin. For safety, there's a lot to be said for the diesel stove. While I know plenty of others here have had problems with their Wallas, I've had two - one on my 22 and one in the Tomcat and they've both been trouble free. The low vapor pressure and lower flammability of diesel are a good thing on a boat. An electric or induction stove while on shore power is great and quite safe. A simple propane stove on a table in the cockpit is a cheap and safe way to go also.

Also, while I agree the customer service was excellent, after reading about your issue and reading about how fires with such a stove have occurred on other other boats too, I have to wonder if you really want another stove from the same company. That is of course, your call, but the track record of the company doesn't look too good to me. Just my opinion and probably worth less than you paid for it. :wink:
 
The kiss on my boat has been a good performer. After owning it just a little while I started removing the end cap and releasing the canister. I felt there may have been a slow leak thru the valve as I wasn't getting 3 hours from a canister. I use the stove for at least an hour a day with oatmeal for breakfast and coffee breaks and dinner prep etc. I also use a Kenyon portable outside for 2 pot meals. It uses the same canister and I unlock it each time after use. Just today I got a Magma LPG BBQ using the 1 lb bottles so now I can have stuff on the barby and 2 pots going! So now I have 50 gallons of gas, butane canisters and LPG canisters aboard. Good thing no one smokes. I changed out the Cobb briquette BBQ as it was a pain to clean and slow. Carrying briquettes aboard. Not good. I always worried we looked on fire when getting the Cobb going. :thup
 
I spoke with the Kenyon Customer service guy today, just to give them an attaboy for their good service. He gave me two tips worth passing on:[1]
after you have removed the gas bottle (of course you do this every time you are finished with the stove :wink: ) try to relight the stove, it should burn for a few seconds with the butane in the lines and getting that out is good for the system.[2] Before you install the butane bottle put a drop of 30wt oil right on the little nozzle, it will give a burst of oil through the system, lubing the o rings and it will keep the gasket the nozzle goes into lubed and flexible. I may try another oil as I don't carry 30wt around much.
 
bmacpiper,

My 26' ProAngler came with one of those crappy stoves. I could not find any canisters for it so asked on the Cbrat site.
Dr. Bob.....thankyou Dr. Bob.....advised me of his friends severe burns and recommended that I remove mine. 10 minutes later my stove was in the garbage can.
I plugged the hole in the cabinet and currently have no stove.

A Mr Heater is my cabin heat and I take coffee in a thermos.

I am glad that you were not burned or had to swim to shore.

Jack
 
This has been interesting to me. I had the original alcohol stove, which while it worked, poured moisture into the cabin and constantly rattled. So I rebuilt the cabinet top and now use a portable butane stove. It is not a kenyon but looks the sme. Wonder if it was manufactured by the same firm and may have some of the same problems. So far so good. Hard to find the bottles. I bought some in friday harbor upstairs from kings market. $3.29 was the best price I have come across so I bought several.

I normally use mine out in the cockpit and it works really well. I will try out some of the suggestions and see if I can keep it working well. I almost bought the kiss stove but the cost turned me off. Glad I didn't.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about the replacement. I'm glad they're trying to make it right, but also not sure the alcohol one is worth it--I've had one on a previous boat, and it took forever to heat. I'm intrigued by the idea of using the portable instead and using the cabinet top for something else.

Guess we'll see when it gets here--will probably do a trial run of boiling water with the portable butane vs. the alcohol and see how it goes.

best,
bmc
 
Received the two replacements as promised by Kenyon. One is a single-burner alcohol/electric combo, and the other is a portable (camping) single-burner butane, in a plastic carry case.

I used my kettle from the boat, and heated my usual quantity of water (about 12 ounces) from 70F to 200F. For the butane, I just timed it from start to finish. For the alcohol stove, there is a warm-up period of 2-5 minutes per the instructions, so I heated the water with no warmup, 2 minutes warmup, and 5 minutes warmup.

With butane, it hit 200F in 2:32. The burner puts out even more heat than the old (dead) butane burner did, very impressive.

With alcohol, these were the results:

No warmup:
100F at 3:35
150F at 8:15
200F at 11:40
(Total time to coffee: 11:40)

2 minute warmup:
100F at 2:32
150F at 7:00
200F at 9:38
(Total time to coffee: 11:38)

5 minute warmup:
100F at 1:45
150F at 4:45
200F at 7:10
(Total time to coffee: 12:10)

In short, the warmup period doesn't make a whole lot of difference--rob Peter to pay Paul. But for the second cup while the burner is still hot, it would go a lot faster. Even still, 7:10 for the second cup versus 2:32 for the butane could be material on a crabby morning of fishing when caffeine is at a premium... And of course all three alcohol tests paled compared to the butane.

One concern I have is that when I turned off the alcohol burner (by moving a sliding steel snuffer lid over the burner), it continued to burn all around the outside of the snuffer lid for 60-65 seconds in 2 out of the 3 tests. This is not something I'd expect--when I say "off", I expect "off".

The electric element is fine, but not something I'll get much use out of. So, waiting 4-5 times longer for my coffee on the alcohol burner isn't a great option; based on that and the lack of positive shutoff, plus the reasons you all stated above (moisture, invisible flame, etc.) and I don't feel I want to install this stove.

Kenyon mentioned they have a sheet metal shop, and they sent a nice stainless spacer ring that covers the old hole and mates up to the new alcohol stove. I'm sure I can convince them to make me a solid stainless cover for the hole instead, and to give me the butane stove. Or, they will rebuild my old butane that is onboard. Of course I am very hesitant to keep using the stove that failed, rebuilt or not.

Not sure what to do, but I'm thinking I'll get a cover for the hole, use the portable butane, and reclaim the countertop for some other purpose.

Any thoughts/input here?

All the best,
bmc
 
Personally I'd fill the hole to get your counter space back and use the butane stove. They work great and when they quit working they're cheap to replace. We just bought a new one for about 20 bucks.

Rick
 
I'm with Rick. I almost ordered my boat with no stove. I find we cook outside more than inside so if my Kiss quits, I will cover the hole with a food quality surface for meal prep and use the portable there. I do now actually. I close the kiss and store the portable on top. I find the portable has better low flame control. $28 in Canada. Can buy them often if they give you trouble.
 
Spoke to Frank again, and he was once again very accommodating. I asked to keep the portable butane, return the alcohol/electric combo, and have him rebuild the Kiss. I also asked for a stainless cover for the KISS hole, in case I remove it later. He agreed to all of that, and is sending me a refurbished KISS instead, to save me a bit of time. I'll return the other one to him for their review.

I will keep a close eye on the KISS going forward; I hated to just toss it and get nothing in return, but also wanted to cover the eventuality of removal and closing the hole. Will see. I'll have to add some non-slip to the portable if I go that route--and maybe some makeshift potholders. Used it on Friday out of Pt Townsend and had the boiling kettle all over the place.

b
 
My KISS is working well. I like everything about it. BUT, with the info on the potential fire issue, I'll be paying more attention. Sucker heats up like a blow torch and you are cooking or boiling right away, so I'd hate to go to anything else. However, I do know that proper sealing and maintaining any gas stove, propane, butane or otherwise is important. The tip on the 30 weight oil makes sense, and I'll be doing that. Otherwise, the stove is so simple, I can't imagine much going wrong. I also can't imagine what would melt the burner. I wonder if there is something funny with your gas canister and the wrong stuff is in there. Is it possible that there is some other gas in a similar canister that is much hotter? Makes no sense to me that the butane would be able to melt the burner.
 
potter water":2sscm07a said:
I also can't imagine what would melt the burner. I wonder if there is something funny with your gas canister and the wrong stuff is in there. Is it possible that there is some other gas in a similar canister that is much hotter? Makes no sense to me that the butane would be able to melt the burner.
Click to expand...

How about a MAAP gas canister? (Used where higher temperatures are needed over propane/butane mixtures.)

The MAAP canisters fit the same torches as do the propane/butane canisters.

Does your stove use that style of canister?

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
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