Marinaut 215 Anchor Arrangement as configured by MBC

D.D.,

Not only do I agree with you on all counts, but am indebted to you regarding the information on transient facilities information at Coecles harbor.

It's funny, in the Connecticut River, which is a sandy -- as opposed to silty --bottom, the 14 pounder worked superbly well, as it does for day trip use. However, I don't trust it in other situations. The 22 pounder is too heavy; Les was right, and so, too, are people like you who prefer moorings and transients berths.

Thank you so much,

Rich
 
Rich-

If I were you with your issues, I'd put a GOOD POWERFUL WINDLASS on that boat, ASAP!

I'd also add some extra chain, if I had less than 30 feet, to add horizontal pull and help the anchor set and stay put. (I prefer at least 50 to 100 feet, as long as I have a windlass to do the work for me.)

Then I'd try the 14 pound Delta Fast Set out in the problem situation, and if it didn't perform adequately, switch over to the 22 pounder. Who cares how much it weighs when you have a windlass? :wink:

Problems setting in tight/dense grass or clay? How sharp is the point on your Fast-Set? I'd recommend sharpening it, but would caution you to check with the manufacturer first. You'd be taking off some of the galvanizing in the process. :sad

Good Luck whatever you do! :D

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Rich --

You are not alone with Delta problems in that area. We had them on several boats and had issues at Coecles and Three Mile Harbor. Eventually, we gave up on the Delta. We changed to a Manson Supreme and have had no further anchoring issues. It sets hard and fast every time. Part of the problem on LI Sound and Between The Forks of Long Island is the presence of a lot of black silt and mud in the bottoms. That stuff is often so thin and so churned by boat anchors that it can be easy to drag. We find that the Manson Supreme gets down deeper and faster and it's blade looks like it is designed to stop the mule rather than plow and therefore works better for us.

YMMV.
 
mcc272":2u54yiqg said:
Rich --

You are not alone with Delta problems in that area. We had them on several boats and had issues at Coecles and Three Mile Harbor. Eventually, we gave up on the Delta. We changed to a Manson Supreme and have had no further anchoring issues. It sets hard and fast every time. Part of the problem on LI Sound and Between The Forks of Long Island is the presence of a lot of black silt and mud in the bottoms. That stuff is often so thin and so churned by boat anchors that it can be easy to drag. We find that the Manson Supreme gets down deeper and faster and it's blade looks like it is designed to stop the mule rather than plow and therefore works better for us.

YMMV.
Click to expand...

Jim,

You've described my problem exactly. It's a black, silty mud. This stuff was also present with weeds in the Niantic River. And we found it on our anchor in Coecles, too, but we used the 22 pounder, which held like the devil.

Regarding the Mansom Supreme, what weight anchor do you use?

Thanks!

Rich
 
Sea Wolf":339xf09h said:
Rich-

If I were you with your issues, I'd put a GOOD POWERFUL WINDLASS on that boat, ASAP!

I'd also add some extra chain, if I had less than 30 feet, to add horizontal pull and help the anchor set and stay put. (I prefer at least 50 to 100 feet, as long as I have a windlass to do the work for me.)

Then I'd try the 14 pound Delta Fast Set out in the problem situation, and if it didn't perform adequately, switch over to the 22 pounder. Who cares how much it weighs when you have a windlass? :wink:

Problems setting in tight/dense grass or clay? How sharp is the point on your Fast-Set? I'd recommend sharpening it, but would caution you to check with the manufacturer first. You'd be taking off some of the galvanizing in the process. :sad

Good Luck whatever you do! :D

Joe. :teeth :thup
Click to expand...

Joe,

I don't think the problem was with digging in; it seemed to dig O.K. It just didn't hold. Jim described it aptly when he said the Delta would essentially plow through the river or ocean bed silt. As I said previously, I had no problem in the Connecticut River with the 14 pounder, because it was dense sand. I agree with you about the windlass, but given my physical issues, I may be better off using transient berths and moorings as opposed to anchoring.

Thanks!

Rich
 
Rich
I agree with joe about the windlass . It is a safety issue as well as a convince. We happen to enjoy anchoring over marinas for many reasons, and this is why we often use the boat over the R V.

An anchor is a safety device. With physical disabilities the windlass makes a lot of sense. Plus anchoring is used for many other reasons than overnight.

Sand is the easiest bottom to anchor on. I can see where the Manson would work better in those bottom conditions.
 
We just got back June 30th from a week long trip to Block Island , Montauk, Coecles Harbor, Sag Harbor, Greenport. We anchored out in the salt pond at Block Island a couple nights. Not to derail the thread but I suggested the marina or a mooring ball might be an option where the anchor you have on board might not hold in a given area. I mean instead of springing for a new anchor with the new anchor roller etc. that will hold in a few problem areas. Anchoring out is something we enjoy. But we also like to see the towns and maybe a restaurant or two. Sometimes when anchored out showers can be harder to come by as we have been treated like a step child trying to get showered up. Also I like the idea of the going on my land based tours with the boat in the relative security of a marina rather than dinking in and leaving my boat hanging on a hook in a more secluded setting. But each to his own.
D.D.
 
since we are on this side track--and maybe this deserves a separate thread.

Are there others who feel more secure in a marina than on the hook?

The 3 times my boat has been boarded with intent to steal items was in a marina. On the other hand, we did have a new 13 foot inflatable and 25 hp outboard stolen when at anchor. Also had one native come aboard uninvited--he was repelled. Have had iffy with drug situations twice when at anchor--one in a marina. Granted, I may have been in higher risk areas than most C Dory owners. Some countries we specifically avoided the marinas....because of the crime.
 
Rich --

My Manson Supreme is 25 lbs which works well on my boat which is heavy at 9,300 lbs. I got the dimensions off the manufacture web site and determined that it would fit well in my roller which, indeed, it does.

See you on the water one of these days.

Off to Three Mile Harbor in the morning.


Jim
Connecticut Side of LI Sound
C-Star, 2004 22 Cruiser (sold 10/10)
North Star, 2011 Rosborough RF-246
 
I like to be on the hook 6 out of 7 nights. I like to treat a marina night as a job day. Easy acces to fuel, water groceries laundry and maybe a lunch out. Take a break tie up and do all the chores. I too have a feeling security on the hook is easier than in most marinas. Our most hit marina in town for theft is the Nanaimo Yacht Club. No liveaboards. Help yourself. When I take moorage for an extended period I want liveaboards around. They know me and I know them. Great help on security.
 
Jim,
Thanks for the information on your Manson Supreme 25#. At 9300 lbs, your boat weighs 2.7 times more than our Marinaut. Applying that same ratio of anchor weight to total boat weight, one would think that 14 pounds should be sufficient for the Marinaut, but all things are not equal. I looked at your anchor and see why it may be a superior design for silty bottoms. I’ll keep a eye out for your Rosborough RF-246 “North Star”, because we plan to do the majority of our cruising within a 50 miles radius of Niantic, CT.

D.D.,
My wife and I are on the same page with you. It’s funny -- we spent 3 weeks on our boat in Anacortes, WA and loved it! But it was at a wonderful marina (Cap Sante Boat Haven) and a beautiful town, Anacortes, which rivals Greenport. We very much prefer marinas so that we can get off the boat and enjoy walking, restaurants and a good shower. After about 14 hours on the boat, we have an overwhelming desire to get our feet onto land by any means possible. We don’t drink, so there is no way for us to become anethetised should we have to be on the boat any longer. This is not to say we don’t love our boat and love being on the water; we just need to get off from time to time, which is why marinas fit the bill for us.

Bob, Joe:
If we desire to spend a greater time anchoring overnights in the future, we will have to get a windlass, so I agree with you completely.

Bob,
Regarding crime at marinas, I’m on your page, too. My wife and I were at Greenport, NY in May, and there were only two boats in the marina. It was spooky. Gangs of kids were hanging out at the marina and some were walking onto the docks. Some kids were boarding boats. There essentially was no security. We did not feel safe, nor did we feel that our boat would be safe at night if left unattended. It’s too bad for Greenport, because we would otherwise go into town for dinner or shopping. I realize that later in the season, when the place gets busy, it’s safer, but they have a real problem off-season with security, in my opinion. If these places put up signs such as “No Unauthorized People Beyond This Point,” someone needs to enforce the rules. In another example, my wife and I spent a few nights in La Conner, WA last year. The men's restroom was a filthy -- fecal material was strewn all over the shower floor -- because some inconsiderate person as messy as his dog left it that way. There is a sign prominently posted that no animals are allowed, but again -- who enforces the rules? We were also concerned for security there, too, because the restrooms were open to, and the docks easily accessible by the general public. Our choice, if we lived in Washington, would be to never return unless we had to. That’s why I think it is sometimes better to go to off-of-the-beaten path marinas with minimal services with the benfit that they are in a more secure location. As for mooring bouys, I don’t think they are any less secure in season when one lives in crowded areas. Unattended boats are easy prey. Perhaps this is a subject for another thread?

All,
The 22 pound Lewmar Delta for our 3500 pound Marinaut (fully loaded) is more than enough anchor. It sticks like the devil. We have absolutely no fear that it won’t hold. Our biggest fear is disengaging it from the bottom and pulling it up with my hands the way they are. So we’re sticking with the 14 pound Lewmar Delta for daytrip anchoring, and will only use the 22 pounder in rare instances. I’m thinking about carrying it on board for long trips should the need arise to anchor due to bad weather, or if we plan to anchor the boat overnight in a crowded anchorage where we would need to use less scope.

Thanks everyone,

Rich
 
Don't forget that you should have a variety of anchors--because the Delta is not good in mud--for that the Fortress (or Super Max) is the best. I must have a dozen anchors in the garage--carry the two Fortress (6 and 7 lbs) and the Delta 14. for the 22 normally. If a 3rd choice, then the folding Northill. If any chance we will be in storms, then the FX 37 comes along...in pieces. and stowed below.

My testing found that the Manson Supreme was a great anchor in sand/shell, thick mud. Probably not as good in soft mud. Our experience is that it was close with the stock roller on the 25, but would work. Best to have rollers specifically designed for each anchor.
 
Thanks for your advice Bob; I'll look at the other options.

Rich
 
A brief update: I wish to confirm that the 14 pound Lewmar Delta anchor does not seem to hold in a stiff breeze (10 knots) when anchored in muck. It holds fast in sand, but in that black, fine silt muck that we so often see in anchorages, it acts more like a farm plough then an anchor. I had 7-1 scope, and even when putting the engine in reverse and dragging the anchor for an appreciable distance, it did not hold. I can tell you that my 22 pound Lewmar Delta holds in similar conditions, but it does not fit my bow roller, its very heavy -- almost too heavy without a windlass -- and had I to do over, I would have pursued other options as mentioned by Dr. Bob and others on this site.
 
Final Betty Ann anchor update.

I removed the Lewmar 14 pound delta, because it just does not hold in silty bottoms, and replaced it with the Lewmar 22 pound anchor. The Lewmar 22 pound holds like the devil in all conditions, and needs little scope relative to the lighter anchor it replaced.

As for the Lewmar 22 pounder not fitting on the BRM-2 bow roller -- that's not quite true. I used nashua tape (as a temporary measure) to build up the bottom of the shank that rests on the roller channel by 3/8". It very nicely prevents the shank from hitting the fiberglass. I use a 12" mini-shockles, which has a load capacity of 600 lbs., for firmly holding the anchor in place. I'll post a picture of the arrangement in my photo album later this week.

As for the tip of the anchor hitting the bow upon deployment and retrieval, that is most certainly true if one is not very careful. I'm using a temporary bow shield to prevent damage, and remove it after stowing the anchor.

As for the weight of the anchor -- the 22 pounder, to me, feels three times heavier than a 14 pounder. It's hard on the back, even though I tried to keep my back straight, as Bob Austin suggested. My recommendation to people is that when you get up to that heavy an anchor (at 22 pounds), a windlass will really save your back, arms and shoulders. As people suggested on the forum, there are other anchor designs of lighter weight that can be employed in silty conditions, so these work, too. I would have pursued those other options had I not already spent nearly $180 for the Lewmar 22 pounder. (Like a fool, I should have asked the group for advice prior to purchasing my anchor, but that makes too much sense.)

Thanks,

Rich
 
I do not have a Marinaut, but while we are talking anchors. Last year I used a 16lb Bruce, never a problem. This year I am using a 15lb Mansard, no problems so far. Next year I will decide which anchor will be my primary and which will be my secondary. Problem right now is I like them both.

Martin.
 
Ooops, I meant Manson not Mandard. :oops:

Martin.
 
I have a small Bruce anchor knockoff. If I ever feel its not enough, I send down an extra 10 lbs of lead. Lead is a downrigger ball on a cariribeaner.
 
bridma":3734ys5d said:
I do not have a Marinaut, but while we are talking anchors. Last year I used a 16lb Bruce, never a problem. This year I am using a 15lb Mansard, no problems so far. Next year I will decide which anchor will be my primary and which will be my secondary. Problem right now is I like them both.

Martin.
Click to expand...

Hello Martin,

Our boats are physically the same size and weight. As I had stated, while the 14# Delta holds fast in sand, it does not do so in silt, which forced me to go to a 22# Delta. Others have said that the 15# Manson holds better in silt. Have you had an occasion to test your anchor in silt?

Rich
 
Hello Martin,

Our boats are physically the same size and weight. As I had stated, while the 14# Delta holds fast in sand, it does not do so in silt, which forced me to go to a 22# Delta. Others have said that the 15# Manson holds better in silt. Have you had an occasion to test your anchor in silt?

Rich[/quote]



Hi Rich,

My anchoring so far with the 15 lb Manson has been in local waters, I have 35' high test 1/4" chain. Mainly mud or a mud/sand mix with gravel or small stones thrown in. Sets well, no probs. I chose the Manson as that is the rig that Sam on "Retriever" uses. When I met him he said that he is quite happy with his Manson, and he is anchoring in all sorts of bottoms.

Martin.
 
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