Alyssa Jean
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MMSI
- Thread starter sailor-d
- Start date
Anita Marie,
Your report is the first we have heard that US authorities are checking out the boat station license requirement to visit a foreign port.
I assume your friend checked into a Canadian port and then checked back into the US at Anacortes. Assuming that the US border patrol has the ability to 'listen' (passively) to boats running radar, then they may have noted that use and asked him for his station license when he checked back into the US.
Do you have any further details?
US boats are permitted to operate or transit through Canadian waters and if they do not stop at a port or communicate with a Canadian station, they do not need a boat station license.
Quote from FCC web site:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html
"Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands) a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit as described in Section III."
A $600 fine :cry
Larry H
Your report is the first we have heard that US authorities are checking out the boat station license requirement to visit a foreign port.
I assume your friend checked into a Canadian port and then checked back into the US at Anacortes. Assuming that the US border patrol has the ability to 'listen' (passively) to boats running radar, then they may have noted that use and asked him for his station license when he checked back into the US.
Do you have any further details?
US boats are permitted to operate or transit through Canadian waters and if they do not stop at a port or communicate with a Canadian station, they do not need a boat station license.
Quote from FCC web site:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html
"Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands) a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit as described in Section III."
A $600 fine :cry
Larry H
Grumpy,
Quote from the FCC page(link in above posts):
"HOW DO I OBTAIN A RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT?
Obtain FCC Form 159 and 605 (see Section VI) and file it with the FCC. You do not need to take a test to obtain this permit. The FCC will mail the permit to you and it will be valid for your lifetime. Don't forget to sign and date your application and include any applicable fees, otherwise it may be returned. "
Go the the page where the forms are, click on 605 and complete Schedule E and submit it along with the 605.
More reasons to LOVE our govn'mt :crook
Larry H
Quote from the FCC page(link in above posts):
"HOW DO I OBTAIN A RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT?
Obtain FCC Form 159 and 605 (see Section VI) and file it with the FCC. You do not need to take a test to obtain this permit. The FCC will mail the permit to you and it will be valid for your lifetime. Don't forget to sign and date your application and include any applicable fees, otherwise it may be returned. "
Go the the page where the forms are, click on 605 and complete Schedule E and submit it along with the 605.
More reasons to LOVE our govn'mt :crook
Larry H
Anita Marie
New member
Larry, he was not a friend just a guy on a big boat I talked to at the fuel dock in Anacortes after he went thru customs. He said they fined him for not having a station license for his boat and operating a radar in Canada. Don't know any other details.
Fred
Fred
Alyssa Jean
New member
Well, I guess I/we broke a lot of international laws when we did our trip to Ketchikan. We used radar the whole way up through Canada and back, used VHF to communicate with a Canadian Lighthouse Station, communicated with each other during the trip, communicated with a Canadian aircraft in Canadian waters, and other boats. I guess I should have been locked up in their equivalent of Leavenworth in Canada.
AstoriaDave
New member
Been following this thread, especially the business about VHF licenses required for US boaters in Canada. My experience is from the deck of a sea kayak, but the requirements are the same.
In some ten seasons of active paddling on the coast of BC, much of it in Barkley Sound, and a fair share in the Queen Charlotte Islands, I never got asked if I had a VHF, never got hassled about licenses (I have both the operator's permit and the ships license), and never met anyone, Canadian or US citizen, who had ever been asked about licensing.
In remote areas, such as the Charlottes, "local usage" often differs substantially from the "official" rules for channel designations, etc., with a given channel serving as the hailing channel, a party line for ship to ship chatter, and shore-to-ship exchanges, some lengthy. Oddly, 16 in the Charlottes was not much used for hailing.
The ONLY reprimands I ever heard were from the CCG warning persons using 16 for chat to get the hell off. Just like I hear down here near the mouth of the Columbia River.
I have made one extended rescue call/query in Barkley Sound from a handheld off the beach, for some folks who did not have a VHF, and the CCG obviously was most happy I had a VHF and knew how to use it. Never a peep about call sign, license, etc. Their focus is boater safety, not picky rules.
I think the reality of usage and license checking up there differs substantially from the official requirements; as long as you do not violate established channel usage, you do not have to worry.
In some ten seasons of active paddling on the coast of BC, much of it in Barkley Sound, and a fair share in the Queen Charlotte Islands, I never got asked if I had a VHF, never got hassled about licenses (I have both the operator's permit and the ships license), and never met anyone, Canadian or US citizen, who had ever been asked about licensing.
In remote areas, such as the Charlottes, "local usage" often differs substantially from the "official" rules for channel designations, etc., with a given channel serving as the hailing channel, a party line for ship to ship chatter, and shore-to-ship exchanges, some lengthy. Oddly, 16 in the Charlottes was not much used for hailing.
The ONLY reprimands I ever heard were from the CCG warning persons using 16 for chat to get the hell off. Just like I hear down here near the mouth of the Columbia River.
I have made one extended rescue call/query in Barkley Sound from a handheld off the beach, for some folks who did not have a VHF, and the CCG obviously was most happy I had a VHF and knew how to use it. Never a peep about call sign, license, etc. Their focus is boater safety, not picky rules.
I think the reality of usage and license checking up there differs substantially from the official requirements; as long as you do not violate established channel usage, you do not have to worry.
Seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the federal government legislating what I do in a foreign country or are we all now in the armed services ?
But a couple of hundred is much cheaper than the futility of trying to argue about it.
Now lets see if I can figure out what language the forms are written in 'cos it surely is not English. Maybe they were written by one of those "hovering vessels" that we must avoid.
Thanks for the info Larry. I guess I should now allow the government to issue me an MMSI and hope that they erase the old one I got from US Boat and that my radio will aloow me "one more try" before it demands to be sent back to the manufacturer. !!!!
Seems like the only legal requirement in Canada is the radio station operator license.
I suspect the guy who got nailed in Anacortes (big boat) may have been in the category where a station license etc is mandatory.
Merv
But a couple of hundred is much cheaper than the futility of trying to argue about it.
Now lets see if I can figure out what language the forms are written in 'cos it surely is not English. Maybe they were written by one of those "hovering vessels" that we must avoid.
Thanks for the info Larry. I guess I should now allow the government to issue me an MMSI and hope that they erase the old one I got from US Boat and that my radio will aloow me "one more try" before it demands to be sent back to the manufacturer. !!!!
Seems like the only legal requirement in Canada is the radio station operator license.
I suspect the guy who got nailed in Anacortes (big boat) may have been in the category where a station license etc is mandatory.
Merv
Grumpy":3tya6cpj said:Seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the federal government legislating what I do in a foreign country or are we all now in the armed services ?
Merv
I suspect it's International Law we're dealing with and who the heck enforces that? It's the home of "Selective Enforcement." :roll:
As for the original thought, ie: a C-Brats group MMSI, one needs a "group number". Tom, tbbrady gave a great explanation here. It points out the fact that a group number starts out as an FCC assigned MMSI number that ends with a zero.
My FCC assigned MMSI number ends in a zero, by the way. 366978310 which can be made into the group number 036697831.
Do the free BoatUS numbers end in zero? If not, that's yet another reason to go through the FCC.
Don
Don,
My US boat assigned MMSI number does not start with a zero, don't know if that is typical.
Do think that in addition to your group suggestion, all those C-Brats with MMSI numbers who have no objection, might like to put them in their personal profile so that we could each set up our "phone lists".
Merv
My US boat assigned MMSI number does not start with a zero, don't know if that is typical.
Do think that in addition to your group suggestion, all those C-Brats with MMSI numbers who have no objection, might like to put them in their personal profile so that we could each set up our "phone lists".
Merv
starcrafttom
Active member
Hey I got a good question. I got my number, put it in my vhf and have never used it since. What is my number? Cant find where I wrote it down and do not know how to get it off the radio??? Any hints.
starcraftom,
I will come and park next to you. You press the emergency button and I will see if it pops up on my plotter.
If that doesn't work we can always ask the "nice" man who comes to rescue you (and I will take photos for the record) :wink:
Seriously, I think there is a part of the Radio set-up procedure that lets you see what is in there. If you can find the book !!!
I will come and park next to you. You press the emergency button and I will see if it pops up on my plotter.
If that doesn't work we can always ask the "nice" man who comes to rescue you (and I will take photos for the record) :wink:
Seriously, I think there is a part of the Radio set-up procedure that lets you see what is in there. If you can find the book !!!
This gets funnier by the minute.. :amgry
Just checked my Ray 54 manual and find out that it is not possible for me to erase my MMSI number assigned by Boat US and put in a new one when assigned by FCC. Has to go to dealer..
Anyone else done this and found a dealer that can do it??
Merv
Just checked my Ray 54 manual and find out that it is not possible for me to erase my MMSI number assigned by Boat US and put in a new one when assigned by FCC. Has to go to dealer..
Anyone else done this and found a dealer that can do it??
Merv
mikeporterinmd
New member
I think you can only put in the number twice on an Icom 422. Odd. Clever way
to prevent radio resales? Mike
to prevent radio resales? Mike
Grumpy":16rkfsch said:This gets funnier by the minute.. :amgry
Just checked my Ray 54 manual and find out that it is not possible for me to erase my MMSI number assigned by Boat US and put in a new one when assigned by FCC. Has to go to dealer..
Merv
Also
My US boat assigned MMSI number does not start with a zero, don't know if that is typical
and
Do think that in addition to your group suggestion, all those C-Brats with MMSI numbers who have no objection, might like to put them in their personal profile so that we could each set up our "phone lists".
The DemiGods of C-Brat would have to add a MMSI field to their present database. I don't see the harm, but my long range planning/viewpoint took a distinct nosedive this month so it's better the Mighty Nerd or Mike the Magnificent address that.
The "ending in a zero" question is a good one and I hope more of the USBoat MMSI recipients chime in so we can get some idea whether there is a drawback to BoatUS "Free."
ROTFLMAO! My Icom VHF gave me two or three chances to "get it right" before I would have to return it to ICOM to clear the memory. Since for once I got something right the first time, I could probably install another number. I have the same MMSI number in both of my VHF's and if it weren't for the fact I did go through the FCC and I have an online file with them I'd probably be in the same boat as starcrafttom, Merv.
Don
Pat Anderson
New member
We did not obtain any VHF license, either operator or station on our Inside Passage trip. However, David on Anna Leigh and I communicated mostly via amateur 2 meter radios - US and Canada recognize each other's ham licenses - as the range is better. As David noted, we did talk to a Canadian light house, and he talked to a helicopter (I had already gone back when that occurred), and I imagine we probably did talk to each other once or twice on VHF, although I mainly recall using the 2 meter radios between our two boats.
Lori Ann":18hozpe3 said:So, here is a question for you Brats who have gone up the Inside Passage to Akaska. Did you get anything more than the Boat US license? Any problems?
Warren
Pat Anderson
New member
Boy, that Waggoner snippet sure is helpful! Seriously, I think there is zero enforcement, like it says, but then there is always that one chance in 1,000...if CBP (it was CBP, wasn't it, Fred?) nailed a guy in Anacortes on returning from Canada, I wonder if that is the start of some new trend?
thataway":1wznyx5y said:From the Waggoner Cruising guide:
" Unfortunately, the U.S. regulation requiring licensing for U.S. pleasure craft in foreign waters is still on the books. It's supposed to be revoked, at least for travel in Canada. But it hasn't been revoked - yet.
What about enforcement? The reality is that the U.S. Coast Guard does not check VHF radio licensing for U.S. pleasure craft, because in U.S. waters no licensing is required. Neither does the U.S. Coast Guard go into Canadian waters to enforce U.S. VHF radio licensing regulations. In Canada, the Canadian Coast Guard and RCMP have no interest in enforcing U.S. regulations.
So nobody is looking at, nor are they about to look at, this obscure regulation requiring U.S. boats and their people to be licensed if they cruise in Canada. Given these circumstances, what should the U.S. boater do? We'll leave the decision up to each individual."
Well, the regulations may be a pile of BS but without exception, all the coasties I have ever met are a real dedicated bunch of guys and to me the real reason for the DSC system is that you can punch that button and give them and any other boat near you that is suitably equipped, an "instant message" with the nature of your problem and your very accurate position. Since you are most likely to be rescued anyway by someone near you, that is worth many $$.
BTW, many coast guard areas are still not equipped for this.
We are lucky in the PNW that they are equipped and we often have many commercial/pleasure vessels around us which have had it for years.
The mayday and location part will work even if they do not recognise your MMSI (and I'm sure they know about the Boat US vs FCC fiasco). The only thing that will not work is that the coasties outside USA will not be able to acces your supplementary information that you filled in on the FCC 605 schedule B.
Or would someone like to tell me that it would be technically illegal to broadcast a DSC mayday in Canada ??? That would make an interesting cout case.
More importantly I guess we all need to read up on what happens if your radio/plotter receives a DSC mayday so we know what to do. Did you kne that you have options about what your receiver does IF you get a call ?
As for my "One chance" radio I am mad because I sold two "three chancers" with my old boat and if I add up the time and hassle to find an authorised Raymarine station that can reset it for me it is likely to cost me another arm and a leg.
Now, the sun is over the Yard arm and I can start to feel better
Merv
BTW, many coast guard areas are still not equipped for this.
We are lucky in the PNW that they are equipped and we often have many commercial/pleasure vessels around us which have had it for years.
The mayday and location part will work even if they do not recognise your MMSI (and I'm sure they know about the Boat US vs FCC fiasco). The only thing that will not work is that the coasties outside USA will not be able to acces your supplementary information that you filled in on the FCC 605 schedule B.
Or would someone like to tell me that it would be technically illegal to broadcast a DSC mayday in Canada ??? That would make an interesting cout case.
More importantly I guess we all need to read up on what happens if your radio/plotter receives a DSC mayday so we know what to do. Did you kne that you have options about what your receiver does IF you get a call ?
As for my "One chance" radio I am mad because I sold two "three chancers" with my old boat and if I add up the time and hassle to find an authorised Raymarine station that can reset it for me it is likely to cost me another arm and a leg.
Now, the sun is over the Yard arm and I can start to feel better
Merv
Larry,
Thanks, good thought.
Les did the installation on mine and I will certainly consult "the Oracle" before going further.
On the old ones I believe a "factory reset" worked but the manual for this one specifically states that this will leave the MMSI intact. Don't ask why....
Merv
Thanks, good thought.
Les did the installation on mine and I will certainly consult "the Oracle" before going further.
On the old ones I believe a "factory reset" worked but the manual for this one specifically states that this will leave the MMSI intact. Don't ask why....
Merv