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potter water

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A. Get a three quarter ton (at least) diesel, ford, chevy, dodge...doesn't matter. They are all good.
B. Tow ratings are only good for cutting in half. If you have a 10 grand tow rating, then assume that you are maxed out at 5 grand. That way your tow vehicle will have a good long...normal...life span with breakdowns a non issue. Oh sure, you can tow at max, but the life of the engine and xmission will be half or less than you expect and you WILL break down at the worst possible locations.
C. Tow at low speeds. I'm a maximum 60 mph towing anything, my fifth wheel, my sailboat or my CD22. There is not much that can go wrong at 60 mph that the big ol' diesel can't recover from...blown tires, etc.
D. Mileage will be better than any gas engine, usually enough to wipe out the diesel/gas fuel cost difference. I get 20 true MPG empty, 15 true mpg with the CD, and 11 True MPG with the fifth wheel at 60 mph.
E. The more truck, the better.
 
The only thing I would disagree with is the 50% of rated tow rate ratio. Trucks are rated at different tow capacities for different type of hitches. A 5th wheel rating will be much more than a receiver hitch capacity.

If you are going to go by hitch receiver capacity--there are few vehicles out there which will pull the Tom Cat or larger Rangers.

If you drive conservatively, and take care of the running gear, you can still get very good service out of a truck. We don't all have to go to 450's on up. (Where the rear end ratio will be lower and there will be a different transmission).

You do need to monitor transmission temp--and I have had temp gauges put in on some rigs to be sure that it remains within normal limits. Some trucks require extra transmission cooling--especially when doing grades.
 
I think the most important aspect of towing is control and stopping. You do not want the tail wagging the dog. That is the reason to go for overkill when it comes to a tow vehicle.
 
It is common knowledge to recommend that the tongue weight of the trailer is somewhere between 9 and 15% of the trailers gross vehicle weight. I would make sure your tow vehicle is rated for that kind of tongue weight. So that being said if your dragging 10,000 pound trailer a half ton pick up might be near it's max. Making the front axle a little light. Getting tongue weight wrong is usually what makes for a tail wagger or not. For this reason alone I would opt for the heavier duty vehicle. Getting down hills, mountain passes is as important as climbing them. The diesels with the Allison transmissions which automatically down shifts to use horse power to hold down speeds that avoids burning up brakes coming off mountain passes with 8% grades along with 20 mph switchbacks is a feature that can't be over stated.
D.D. :o
 
thataway":2tk3yhte said:
The only thing I would disagree with is the 50% of rated tow rate ratio. .

Some trucks require extra transmission cooling--especially when doing grades.
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Agree with Dr. Bob! If we did it that way, as he mentioned, everybody would be driving ton and a half trucks unnecessarily! :roll:

As for a temperature control when "doing grades", my school teacher wife :love needed one of those when doing high school biology grading. She regularly went "into the red" and steam ensued from her ears! No extra cooling possible (except maybe pinot grigio) and no gauge required.

I'm sure SEAWOLF JOE had the same experience!

Charlie
 
Nope, not if the "family" includes TomCats...

http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_g ... owing.html

Unless you go to a ton and a half, the max that a one ton will tow (according to this article) is 19,200#. A fully loaded TC255 on the trailer will go upwards of 10,000#, closer to 11,000# or more. I'm going to take mine to a scale this week to verify that. The top tower is the International CXT which will tow 40,000# :roll: but costs $120K!! :cry .

That 19,200# rating belongs to a super duty F350, which is a "one ton". All the other top ten are less than that in towing capacity.

I also think a fully loaded CD 25 will exceed half of the F350's rating.

Am I missing something in your calculations? Or is that article wrong? Or is 50% perhaps a bit conservative? :wink:

Charlie
 
So would a 2008 Tacoma, 6-speed manual, v-6, 4wd, tow package and rated for 6500lbs. pull and stop safely a 22 crusier which I was told would weigh in about 4000lbs with gear, fuel etc and trailer. In California, we can only go 55mph max. pulling a trailer.
 
My 07 Tacoma 4x4 V6 towed the 22 just fine. 15mpg from Roseville to Washington was my average, however it squated a bit more than I liked, so if I had decided to keep it was going to install the Firestone air bags to level it out. My 22 is a bit heavier as I have twin 40's, a 90 hp would be lighter. of course you have to add single or twin batteries. I traveled loaded at about 4500#
 
I'm speaking very generally with the 50% and trying to make a simple point. That is: Towing at maximum rating will tear the engine and xmission apart way before normal life expectancy. The more conservative you are on the tow rating, the less likely you'll be stranded on a desert road in 105 degree heat, or -20 degree cold. My Dodge mechanic says he can predict somewhere around 60 thousand miles the gas powered trucks will lose a transmission if the owner has towed at full rating much of that time. So, take my numbers and put any plus or minus around them. The point still stands. Get as much truck as you can pulling your stuff. Drive train lifetime, braking, safety etc. all gets better as you go up. Of course there is a limit..., but just take the simple point I'm trying to make for what it is...something to provoke thought and maybe spend a few grand on something bigger or tougher.
 
potter water":2s9e96w7 said:
I'm speaking very generally with the 50% and trying to make a simple point. That is: Towing at maximum rating will tear the engine and xmission apart way before normal life expectancy. The more conservative you are on the tow rating, the less likely you'll be stranded on a desert road in 105 degree heat, or -20 degree cold. My Dodge mechanic says he can predict somewhere around 60 thousand miles the gas powered trucks will lose a transmission if the owner has towed at full rating much of that time. So, take my numbers and put any plus or minus around them. The point still stands. Get as much truck as you can pulling your stuff. Drive train lifetime, braking, safety etc. all gets better as you go up. Of course there is a limit..., but just take the simple point I'm trying to make for what it is...something to provoke thought and maybe spend a few grand on something bigger or tougher.
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I am not sure I agree on this philosophy. Max weights are for 5th wheel or gooseneck hitches, not necessarily receiver type of hitches. The Ford 450 with diesel does not fit your criteria for the Tom Cat--you have to go with the 550--and that is going to be significantly more than a few thousand dollars more.

Marc is towing 13,000 lbs or more with his 3500 heavy duty--and not having any problems. I'll bet he gets a lot more than 65,000 miles. Is your mechanic factoring in the modern heavy duty transmissions? I have more faith in current engines and transmissions than your mechanic does, especially if you use good oils, regular oil and filter changes, and watch the temps.

The other question is how many miles a year does the aver age C Dory owner tow a year? Some do several thousand or more--I have done over 7500 several years--but think that is a bit of the exception.

I towed my C Dory 22 a couple of times from S.Calif. to Powell, and from New Mexico to S. Calif. with the Honda Pilot where it is very close to the max rating of the vehicle. The vehicle has about 58,000 on the odometer, has been towed behind the RV over 75,000 miles (probably harder on the transmission than towing the C Dory) and still is in great shape.

I would figure the loaded weight of the 22 at closer to 4500 lbs than 4,000 lbs.
 
potter water":28gtqsmo said:
I'm speaking very generally with the 50% and trying to make a simple point. That is: Towing at maximum rating will tear the engine and xmission apart way before normal life expectancy. The more conservative you are on the tow rating, the less likely you'll be stranded on a desert road in 105 degree heat, or -20 degree cold. My Dodge mechanic says he can predict somewhere around 60 thousand miles the gas powered trucks will lose a transmission if the owner has towed at full rating much of that time. So, take my numbers and put any plus or minus around them. The point still stands. Get as much truck as you can pulling your stuff. Drive train lifetime, braking, safety etc. all gets better as you go up. Of course there is a limit..., but just take the simple point I'm trying to make for what it is...something to provoke thought and maybe spend a few grand on something bigger or tougher.
Click to expand...

If I had the money than sure it would be nice to buy something bigger and tougher. I have less than year left of payments on my Tacoma and looking for the right boat now. I really do not think pulling 4000-4500lbs with my truck will be much of an issue and will not go out an buy another to pull a boat. Not retired yet (45 years old) so will not be towing as much as maybe some of you are. At 4500lbs and say another 1000lbs of cargo and thats a high number for what I will be doing I still have 1000lbs before I reach my max. I can see your point if you have the money to spend and are retired but I still work. I believe if you take care of your truck and don't tow/drive like an idiot and are aware you will be fine.
 
Until recently the Dodge had a weak link in their transmissions . I would have been cautious with regard to their history . The newer Dodges use a Mercedes sourced 6 speed electronic truck trans . The jury is still out on it's longevity and I am a Guinea Pig [beta tester]. So far so good . The Allison 5 or 6 speed is a great proven performer .
I live in Florida . A Toyota/Nissan/Ford/Ram /Chevy gasser with a rating comfortably over your actual weight [25% or better]would give me a fairly warm and fuzzy feeling . If I were crossing mountains , maybe a different approach would be in order.
Tonight I drove from Pensacola to Apalachicola empty at 60 MPH and below and attained 21.5 MPG with my big dually 4wd Cummins . A light foot, a sense of accomplishment for the day and a good stereo made it a good trip .
Marc
 
Your points are good... And derating by 50% will enhance longevity of any vehicle..
But a ton and a half vehicle is going to ride like, well like a truck... Anyway, I know that you understand - especially after the group did a 'pile on', on you...
You can buy a used 3/4 ton diesel as long as it is under 300,000 miles and it will tow your boat just fine for many years...

I'm partial to GM trucks... My 2500HD has a maximum tow weight of 13,000 pounds on the bumper (or 17,800 as a 5th wheel)... My Ranger tug on the trailer is 11,000 pounds (970 pounds on the tongue)... The truck behaves as though it is not even back there telling me the weight limits are conservative...
Barring unforeseen circumstances this is likely the last truck I will buy because I don't expect to exceed 300,000 miles towing...

ymmv, bni, sar
denny-o
 
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