new DC/DC battery charger from Victron Energy

[pcg]

Victron Energy is now shipping the Orion XS DC/DC battery charger - I got mine in the mail today.

Designed with Li batteries in mind, compared to the Orion-Tr Smart, it is...
1) Smaller
2) Runs cooler and requires no heatsink
3) Although it can provide 50A to a Li battery, it can be programmed to provide much less if one is concerned about overheating the rectifier in an outboard motor.
4) It costs $100 more.

Here’s the specs… https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/do ... ger-EN.pdf

 

[thataway]

Certainly sounds interesting--perticulary for boats with larger alternators.

What engine, and how much alternator output do you have? I used the Sterling 30 Amp unit which also allows programing the output--and did the setup for my Honda 150 HP with about 44 amp output--25 amps was about what I felt comfortable pulling for the 2 LIFePO 4 100 amp hour Battle Born 100 amp batteries==200 amp bank.

On the portable power supply: 100 amp hour LiFePO4 with Orion 18 amp output was about what was good for my battery, and the various car alternators (and RV--which has a Leece Neville 200 amp alternator,) as the max I want to pull for those applications and my needs. j

Thank you.

 

[pcg]

What engine, and how much alternator output do you have?

I don't have a motor yet, but it likely will be a Honda or Merc 115hp. (I really like the Merc, but the Honda delivers more charging current.) That, and Li batteries, will be the last thing I buy when my restoration is near complete. Whatever it is, it won't be able to take advantage of the XS's ability to deliver 50A. Currently there is not a lower amp model of the XS available and I suspect there never will be since it can be programmed for lower current values, and it's already much smaller than the 30A version of the Orion-Tr.

The two features that I think will be useful to me are the cooler operating temperature and the current limit programmability. This charger will be mounted in close proximity with a solar charger and shore charger on a removable "charging module" under the starboard berth, and I was concerned about the amount of heat the Orion-Tr puts out. The Tr operates at 87% efficiency and the XS operates at a claimed 98.5% efficiency - a huge improvement. Also, being able to "tune" tha DC-DC charger so that I can get the most charging current available without overheating the outboard's stator is an attractive feature that the Orion-Tr does not have. I didn't consider the Sterling charger because when I was designing my charging system I had Victron tunnel vision and want to be able to monitor all of the charging devices and the batteries with a Cerbo GX and a display.

 

[WCF]

Thanks for sharing this, just yesterday I was looking around at what is available now in DC-DC; I somehow missed this.

I use the Renogy DC-DC 20 amp which has configurable charging profiles at less than 1/3rd the price. The Renogy line is not infinitely configurable, but it is configurable with a jumper to either the full rating or half rating. I find that 10A is plenty and provides peace of mind that I am not damaging anything on the outboard. I manually switch it on and off only when running and when the start battery is charged. But it would be a lot more fool-proof set at 5A. It would also be nice if it were smaller.

I just purchased one of VE's new small inverter chargers, which I think is the perfect solution for a basic 22 cruiser. I'm sure soon VE will have a combination solar, DC-DC, and inverter/charger unit that will fit in a 22

 

[pcg]

I just purchased one of VE's new small inverter chargers, which I think is the perfect solution for a basic 22 cruiser.

I agree. I wish they had offered that a year earlier!

I'm sure soon VE will have a combination solar, DC-DC, and inverter/charger unit that will fit in a 22

You may be right and it would be a dream product for a C-Dory. I wonder if the need for DC/DC converters may soon go away as manufacturers start making LiFePO4 house batteries with a BMS that can accomodate charging from an alternator/stator.

 

[jkidd]

I just purchased one of VE's new small inverter chargers, which I think is the perfect solution for a basic 22 cruiser.

I agree. I wish they had offered that a year earlier!

I'm sure soon VE will have a combination solar, DC-DC, and inverter/charger unit that will fit in a 22

You may be right and it would be a dream product for a C-Dory. I wonder if the need for DC/DC converters may soon go away as manufacturers start making LiFePO4 house batteries with a BMS that can accomodate charging from an alternator/stator.

It's not the BMS that is the problem. The alternators would have to put 14.7 volts in order to get the lithium to 100 percent of charge. The lithium cells have to low of internal resistance that is what burns the alternators up.

 

[pcg]

... I wonder if the need for DC/DC converters may soon go away as manufacturers start making LiFePO4 house batteries with a BMS that can accomodate charging from an alternator/stator.

...It's not the BMS that is the problem. The alternators would have to put 14.7 volts in order to get the lithium to 100 percent of charge. The lithium cells have to low of internal resistance that is what burns the alternators up.

Yes, that's currently the problem. I'm wondering if advances in BMS design can help resolve this.

Mercury recently announced the approval of Li start batteries that meet certain specifications (Relion RB100-HP, for example) for use with certain outboards (including the 115hp). The fact that they have published specs for a Li battery to be compatible with their outboards leads me to believe there is something about the BMS of a battery that meets those specs that allows them to work with Mercury alternators. Relion is owned by Mercury, but I expect other companies will soon produce Li batteries to the specs published by Mercury. It's also possible Mercury has made changes to their alternators to allow this, but again, only with batteries that meet those specs, and the BMS has everything to do with meeting those specs.

There are two issues at stake here - keeping the Li battery at full charge and preventing damage to the alternator. Apparently something about the specs Mercury has published will prevent damage to the alternator, but I don't see how it will allow full charge of the Li battery. Perhaps it doesn't and that's not an issue. Also, I see nothing that would prevent a future BMS from including circuitry to boost charging voltage.

 

[ssobol]

There are two issues at stake here - keeping the Li battery at full charge and preventing damage to the alternator. Apparently something about the specs Mercury has published will prevent damage to the alternator, but I don't see how it will allow full charge of the Li battery. Perhaps it doesn't and that's not an issue. Also, I see nothing that would prevent a future BMS from including circuitry to boost charging voltage.

You'd think that it wouldn't be that hard to put a current limiter inline with the charging circuit from the alternator to the LI battery. Yeah, it might not be as efficient as a proper DC-DC charger, but it'd keep from burning up the alternator.

 

[thataway]

The LiFePO4 battery actually functions best at 20% SOC to 80% SOC. (This is a consensus, and could be debated, but generally accepted range.)

Relion is one of the Navico Group which includes: Blue Seas, BEP, Lawrence, Simrad, B & G, Lenco, Marinco, Mastervolt, and a number of other very familiar Marine company names. Their web page makes the distinction:

"We are a global team, but our customer service representatives and engineers are located in the United States, giving you quick and easy access when you need help.

I believe that all of their batteries and accessories are made in China.

Today I received my new Victron Battery charger. The battery charge is tagged: "Designed in the Netherlands, Made in India."...

Mercury Propulsion group is also under the Umbrella of Brunswick Co.

The Boat division of Brunswick includes Boston Whaler and Bayliner, Lowe, Lund and a host of other boating brands.

Dometic is another umbrella company which is buying up Marine accessory companies. Often there is little communication between the different companies. What does happen, is that your Boston Whaler will come with Mercury Outboards, Mastervolt, BEP or Blue Seas accessories etc. And more recently you may have the option of Relion batteries. There certainly is communications between the two companies, but one does not "own" the other.

 

[thataway]

Over heating the alternator (if here is one) is the usual issue with limits. The cheapest is to have the alternator programed so it runs XX minutes, and then rests XX minutes. This is what is often used in the RV world where the coaches are swinging a 200+ Amp heavy duty Leece- Neville alternator.

It would not require innovative programing--that can be done fairly easily today. Most of the systems are going into larger boats and RV's where there is not an issue with the cost as much as with a small outboard. For example in the boat we took to Europe I had two 150 amp alternators on the main engine, and a 200 amp alternator driven off the front part of the 120VAC "generator". I had 1200 amp hours of Lead Acid battery, and ran the main or generator several hours a day. (Change batteries, heat water, make water and do the wash, all at once.). No problem doing this with larger boats.