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New Honda lean burn ect. "07"
- Thread starter Anne-B
- Start date
Squarehead
New member
Will these be the '07 models?
flapbreaker
New member
Wow, that 44amp alternator would be nice.
Here's what I saw on another site.
Tokyo, Japan, Sept. 13, 2006 - (JCN Newswire) - Honda Motor Co., Ltd. introduced the all-new BF90 and BF75 medium-sized(*1) 4-stroke marine outboard engines. The two new models will go on sale through Honda's outboard dealers in Japan on November 1, 2006. The new BF90 and BF75 achieve outstanding clean exhaust performance that exceeds US California Air Resources Board (CARB) emissions regulations for 2008 - the most stringent emissions standards in the world - while delivering superb performance, fuel efficiency and reliability. They are also the lightest, most compact models in their output category(*2) (90 to 100 PS).
Developed on the base of the 1.5-liter engine of the Honda Fit automobile, the new engines feature Honda's PGM-FI programmed fuel injection system and lean-burn combustion, and VTEC(*3). They also boast the world's first ignition timing governed by BLAST(*4) (Boosted Low Speed Torque) air/fuel ratio technology and other advanced electronic control devices. Together with a lightweight, compact design, these technologies combine to offer outstanding performance and fuel efficiency. Maximum speed and acceleration performance are improved, while fuel consumption is reduced by more than 20%(*5) compared to the previous BF90 model(*6). Battery charging capacity has been more than doubled to a class-leading 35 amperes.
*1 25 to 100 PS
*2 90 PS/75 PS (Honda calculations)
*3 Variable Valve Timing and Lift, Electronic Control (featured only on
the BF90).
*4 Ignition timing is governed by air/fuel ratio at constant speed and
during acceleration for improved acceleration.
*5 In EPA-emission mode (Honda calculations)
*6 Honda calculations
Honda has already taken steps to ensure that all 19 models in its marine
outboard engine lineup, from the BF2 (2 PS) to the BF225 (225 PS),
deliver emission performance complying with CARB 2008 regulations,
making Honda the world's first outboard engine manufacturer to make its
entire lineup CARB 2008 compatible(*7). As a symbol of their clean
operation, all outboard engines for sale in Japan display an "Ultra-Low
Emissions" logo to identify them as the world's leading
environment-friendly engines.
*7 As of 2003
BF90/BF75 Main Features
Lightweight and Compact
- The integral head and exhaust manifold construction, lightweight and
compact generator with neodymium magnet rotor, and integral oil pan and
crankcase design combine for a 6kg weight reduction and 10% size
reduction compared to the previous model.
Fuel Economy
- Lean-burn operation is achieved through the use of Honda PGM-FI(Honda
Programmed Fuel Injection) and an O2 feedback sensor. The implementation
of intake/exhaust roller-type rocker arms and an offset cylinder layout
help reduce internal friction, resulting in over 20% higher fuel
efficiency compared to the previous model (EPA emissions-mode fuel
consumption).
Operational Performance
- The BF90 and BF75 are the world's first marine outboard engines to
feature ignition timing governed by air/fuel ratio technology.
Acceleration at all engine speeds is significantly improved through
optimized, computer-controlled ignition timing based on air/fuel ratio.
- A separate two-way cooling system, new aerodynamically designed gear
case, VTEC technology* and knock control* help achieve the highest
maximum speed in the category yet with a smaller engine capacity. The
new gear case is designed with a reduced frontal surface to reduce
hydrodynamic drag. A large-sized splash plate helps reduce water splash
while a longer anti-ventilation plate helps reduce cavitation around the
propeller. To promote the use of the BF90/BF75 engines on a wider
variety of boats, a 2.33-to-1 gear ratio has been selected. This allows
for a choice of larger screws, helping achieve higher speeds and reduced
splash.
* Featured on the BF90 only
Environmental Performance
- In addition to exhaust emissions levels that are significantly lower
than those required by both the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) for 2006 and domestic Japanese voluntary regulations, both BF90
and BF75 also exceed the 2008 CARB standards - the most stringent
standards in the world.
- Both models are 95% recyclable (Honda calculations).
Durability and Reliability
- Oil pressure alert, overheat alert, over-rev limiter, PGM-FIwarning,
ACG warning,water-in-fuel warning and other alert functions ensure
instant recognition of any potential malfunction or abnormal operation.
Battery Charging Capacity
- Lightweight, compact generator boasts a category-leading net battery
charging capacity of 35 amperes.
Easy to Install and Maintain
- The BF90/BF75 can be mated to a wider range of boat types than
conventional models due to their light-weight, compact design.
- A flush valve joint makes for easy engine cleaning after use.
- A two-piece undercover promotes easier maintenance.
Design
- Like Honda's larger marine outboard engines, the BF90/BF75 feature a
striking "wing form" design for strength and streamlining.
Tokyo, Japan, Sept. 13, 2006 - (JCN Newswire) - Honda Motor Co., Ltd. introduced the all-new BF90 and BF75 medium-sized(*1) 4-stroke marine outboard engines. The two new models will go on sale through Honda's outboard dealers in Japan on November 1, 2006. The new BF90 and BF75 achieve outstanding clean exhaust performance that exceeds US California Air Resources Board (CARB) emissions regulations for 2008 - the most stringent emissions standards in the world - while delivering superb performance, fuel efficiency and reliability. They are also the lightest, most compact models in their output category(*2) (90 to 100 PS).
Developed on the base of the 1.5-liter engine of the Honda Fit automobile, the new engines feature Honda's PGM-FI programmed fuel injection system and lean-burn combustion, and VTEC(*3). They also boast the world's first ignition timing governed by BLAST(*4) (Boosted Low Speed Torque) air/fuel ratio technology and other advanced electronic control devices. Together with a lightweight, compact design, these technologies combine to offer outstanding performance and fuel efficiency. Maximum speed and acceleration performance are improved, while fuel consumption is reduced by more than 20%(*5) compared to the previous BF90 model(*6). Battery charging capacity has been more than doubled to a class-leading 35 amperes.
*1 25 to 100 PS
*2 90 PS/75 PS (Honda calculations)
*3 Variable Valve Timing and Lift, Electronic Control (featured only on
the BF90).
*4 Ignition timing is governed by air/fuel ratio at constant speed and
during acceleration for improved acceleration.
*5 In EPA-emission mode (Honda calculations)
*6 Honda calculations
Honda has already taken steps to ensure that all 19 models in its marine
outboard engine lineup, from the BF2 (2 PS) to the BF225 (225 PS),
deliver emission performance complying with CARB 2008 regulations,
making Honda the world's first outboard engine manufacturer to make its
entire lineup CARB 2008 compatible(*7). As a symbol of their clean
operation, all outboard engines for sale in Japan display an "Ultra-Low
Emissions" logo to identify them as the world's leading
environment-friendly engines.
*7 As of 2003
BF90/BF75 Main Features
Lightweight and Compact
- The integral head and exhaust manifold construction, lightweight and
compact generator with neodymium magnet rotor, and integral oil pan and
crankcase design combine for a 6kg weight reduction and 10% size
reduction compared to the previous model.
Fuel Economy
- Lean-burn operation is achieved through the use of Honda PGM-FI(Honda
Programmed Fuel Injection) and an O2 feedback sensor. The implementation
of intake/exhaust roller-type rocker arms and an offset cylinder layout
help reduce internal friction, resulting in over 20% higher fuel
efficiency compared to the previous model (EPA emissions-mode fuel
consumption).
Operational Performance
- The BF90 and BF75 are the world's first marine outboard engines to
feature ignition timing governed by air/fuel ratio technology.
Acceleration at all engine speeds is significantly improved through
optimized, computer-controlled ignition timing based on air/fuel ratio.
- A separate two-way cooling system, new aerodynamically designed gear
case, VTEC technology* and knock control* help achieve the highest
maximum speed in the category yet with a smaller engine capacity. The
new gear case is designed with a reduced frontal surface to reduce
hydrodynamic drag. A large-sized splash plate helps reduce water splash
while a longer anti-ventilation plate helps reduce cavitation around the
propeller. To promote the use of the BF90/BF75 engines on a wider
variety of boats, a 2.33-to-1 gear ratio has been selected. This allows
for a choice of larger screws, helping achieve higher speeds and reduced
splash.
* Featured on the BF90 only
Environmental Performance
- In addition to exhaust emissions levels that are significantly lower
than those required by both the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) for 2006 and domestic Japanese voluntary regulations, both BF90
and BF75 also exceed the 2008 CARB standards - the most stringent
standards in the world.
- Both models are 95% recyclable (Honda calculations).
Durability and Reliability
- Oil pressure alert, overheat alert, over-rev limiter, PGM-FIwarning,
ACG warning,water-in-fuel warning and other alert functions ensure
instant recognition of any potential malfunction or abnormal operation.
Battery Charging Capacity
- Lightweight, compact generator boasts a category-leading net battery
charging capacity of 35 amperes.
Easy to Install and Maintain
- The BF90/BF75 can be mated to a wider range of boat types than
conventional models due to their light-weight, compact design.
- A flush valve joint makes for easy engine cleaning after use.
- A two-piece undercover promotes easier maintenance.
Design
- Like Honda's larger marine outboard engines, the BF90/BF75 feature a
striking "wing form" design for strength and streamlining.
Here is a link to a Honda website on the new motor.
http://world.honda.com/news/2006/p06091 ... rdEngines/
http://world.honda.com/news/2006/p06091 ... rdEngines/
Here is a specifications table from the Honda website.
Specifications
Model BF90D BF75D
Dimensions
(L×W×H in mm) 746 × 449 × 1,566 (LRTN)
Transom Height (mm) L: 537 X: 664
Engine 4-stroke in-line 4 cylinder
Displacement (cm3) 1,496
Bore × Stroke (mm) 73.0 × 89.4
Compression Ratio 9.7
Valve train-- (90)4-valve SOHC VTEC (75)4-valve SOHC
Max. Power [kW (PS)/rpm] 66.2 (90hp)/5,800 55.2 (75 hp)/5,500
Max. Torque [N·m (kgf·m)] (90)123 (12.5) (75)118 (12.0)
Idling Speed (rpm) 750 ± 50
Fuel Unleaded Gasoline
Lubrication System --Force feed
Cooling System --Liquid cooled (thermostat-equipped)
Ignition System --Fully transistorized battery ignition
Starter System-- Electric
Exhaust System-- Under water (propeller boss exhaust)
Charging Capacity-- 12V-35A
Fuel Consumption at Max. Output
(g/kWh) (90)350 (75)340
Dry Weight
(kg, w/propeller) (90) 166kg/365lb (75) 165 kg/363lbs
Specifications
Model BF90D BF75D
Dimensions
(L×W×H in mm) 746 × 449 × 1,566 (LRTN)
Transom Height (mm) L: 537 X: 664
Engine 4-stroke in-line 4 cylinder
Displacement (cm3) 1,496
Bore × Stroke (mm) 73.0 × 89.4
Compression Ratio 9.7
Valve train-- (90)4-valve SOHC VTEC (75)4-valve SOHC
Max. Power [kW (PS)/rpm] 66.2 (90hp)/5,800 55.2 (75 hp)/5,500
Max. Torque [N·m (kgf·m)] (90)123 (12.5) (75)118 (12.0)
Idling Speed (rpm) 750 ± 50
Fuel Unleaded Gasoline
Lubrication System --Force feed
Cooling System --Liquid cooled (thermostat-equipped)
Ignition System --Fully transistorized battery ignition
Starter System-- Electric
Exhaust System-- Under water (propeller boss exhaust)
Charging Capacity-- 12V-35A
Fuel Consumption at Max. Output
(g/kWh) (90)350 (75)340
Dry Weight
(kg, w/propeller) (90) 166kg/365lb (75) 165 kg/363lbs
Glad to see that the new Hondas are finally here!
We've been "knocking" them for being out of date on the lack of EFI, having an antiquated 3-valve single cam valve train, and small alternator capacity for the past several years, hoping they'd catch up to Suzuki, Yamaha, and others with the more modern technology.
Glad to see the update! Will have to see just how much of the "new" is new wording for familiar concepts, and how much is truly new hardware and performance.
The only downside will be that the older models will be that much more out of date, just like how the Tom Cat 24 was seriously outdated by the TC 225.
Happy Birthday with the new models in 2007, Honda 75 & 90!
Joe.
We've been "knocking" them for being out of date on the lack of EFI, having an antiquated 3-valve single cam valve train, and small alternator capacity for the past several years, hoping they'd catch up to Suzuki, Yamaha, and others with the more modern technology.
Glad to see the update! Will have to see just how much of the "new" is new wording for familiar concepts, and how much is truly new hardware and performance.
The only downside will be that the older models will be that much more out of date, just like how the Tom Cat 24 was seriously outdated by the TC 225.
Happy Birthday with the new models in 2007, Honda 75 & 90!
Joe.
Joe,
Depends on where you sit. After 6 or 7 years living with the carb 90 Hondas and a couple of years with the TC24 - They were great!! 4,000-5,000 hours on the carb 90 Honda is not unusual, and I much prefer my old TC24 and wish I had it back!! But then I'm approaching the rocking chair time of life, and much prefer the KISS.
Happy fishing,
Dusty
Depends on where you sit. After 6 or 7 years living with the carb 90 Hondas and a couple of years with the TC24 - They were great!! 4,000-5,000 hours on the carb 90 Honda is not unusual, and I much prefer my old TC24 and wish I had it back!! But then I'm approaching the rocking chair time of life, and much prefer the KISS.
Happy fishing,
Dusty
One thing I found pretty interesting is that they state the HP for the Honda Fit as being 109 HP while the BF90 is rated at 90HP. You have to wonder why the difference? Also note that the BF90 VTec doesn't turn on the second cam until 5300 RPM and max torque is at 5800 RPM. So this will likely mean running higher RPMs than most people are accustomed to on their boats.
Should be an interesting motor.
Should be an interesting motor.
Sawdust":298h1tds said:Joe,
Depends on where you sit. After 6 or 7 years living with the carb 90 Hondas and a couple of years with the TC24 - They were great!! 4,000-5,000 hours on the carb 90 Honda is not unusual, and I much prefer my old TC24 and wish I had it back!! But then I'm approaching the rocking chair time of life, and much prefer the KISS.
Happy fishing,
Dusty
Dusty-
Didn't mean to suggest that the Honda 90 wasn't a good motor, just thought, as have some others, that it could use some updating, which is finally happening.
To suggest thgat the Honda 90 or 75 aren't good motors would like suggesting that Toyota didn't build good pickups while you were driving over one with a BULLDOZER trying to stop it with 200,00 miles on the truck's OD!
No doubt the TC 24 was and is a good design, too, but the appearance update to look more like the rest of the salty C-Dory family was at least as important to sales as all the rest of the design changes put together, IMHO.
BTW ol' buddy, the older we get, the more the KISS Principle seems to fit our needs. Just hope it won't regress all the way back to where boating consists of sitting in a bath tub with a rubber ducky and a vigilant mother figure at the old folks home!!!
Take your medicine, now, and be a good boy! (And don't pinch the nurse's rear end!)
Joe.
Joe,
Glad you are up and around, and gotta admit I'm of the old school. My old 4-stroke carb Yamaha 100 runs great and starts with less than half a rev. My fishing partner's 90 Honda the same, and neither have missed a lick in over 1,000 hours.
The new Honda 90/75's will be great motors I'm certain -- but it will take years to know about their reliability -- and agree that they are more advanced technically. The 20 percent increase in fuel economy over the old 90 really gets my attention, but I cross fingers on all of the system "safety" warning devices. Both of my Audis run great after many years of faithful service, but the warning devices on both cars indicate problems that don't exist. Mrs. Dusty gets downright mean when the red lights come on :roll:
And back when I was driving airplanes for a living the false warning lights created many problems. They are great when they tell the truth, but lots and lots of accidents when good operating engines and/or systems have been shut down.
Joe, must admit you are right on the TC-24. It now looks likes part of the C fleet, and has a better layout... but the TC-24 was a great running boat and I sure hated to see it leave.
Time marches on, eh? Tides are just right so gotta go fish. Dang :wink:
Dusty
Glad you are up and around, and gotta admit I'm of the old school. My old 4-stroke carb Yamaha 100 runs great and starts with less than half a rev. My fishing partner's 90 Honda the same, and neither have missed a lick in over 1,000 hours.
The new Honda 90/75's will be great motors I'm certain -- but it will take years to know about their reliability -- and agree that they are more advanced technically. The 20 percent increase in fuel economy over the old 90 really gets my attention, but I cross fingers on all of the system "safety" warning devices. Both of my Audis run great after many years of faithful service, but the warning devices on both cars indicate problems that don't exist. Mrs. Dusty gets downright mean when the red lights come on :roll:
And back when I was driving airplanes for a living the false warning lights created many problems. They are great when they tell the truth, but lots and lots of accidents when good operating engines and/or systems have been shut down.
Joe, must admit you are right on the TC-24. It now looks likes part of the C fleet, and has a better layout... but the TC-24 was a great running boat and I sure hated to see it leave.
Time marches on, eh? Tides are just right so gotta go fish. Dang :wink:
Dusty
Just thought I would pass on my experience with the BF90D after 80 hours on my CD-22. I am still experimenting with props but getting closer. So here are my observations:
a. With the stock 15p 3 blade it positively jumped out of the water. The acceleration was impressive with a moderately heavy load. The water conditions didn't allow me to determine WOT but I only used this prop once on the first trip and I found two problems. The manual trim release screw was fully tight so I couldn't maintain a given trim position, but it was obvious it was probably under propped and the motor was a hole too low.
b. With a 17p 3 blade and the motor raised one hole the acceleration was noticeably slower with WOT throttle at 5900 rpm and 32 mph top end. Fuel economy in a heavy boat was 3.50 mpg and improved to over 4 mpg as the boat lightened up at 22 mph. However in heavy following 3-4 foot seas, the 3 blade 17p prop makes you feel you are coming to a stop when you end up on the back side of a wave.
c. I also tried a 15p 4 blade prop and found WOT at close to 6300 with speed at 32 mph (the desired WOT on this motor is 5300 to 6300 rpm). In experimenting with this prop I also learned alot about the lean burn. At 3900 rpm I could trim the boat to get 4.5 mpg at 12-13 mph. If I advanced the throttle to 4000 rpm mileage dropped to around 3 mpg on the fuel flow meter. I've asked the dealer to research this rather large differential, but according to the factory specs it stays in lean burn mode up to just shy of 4000 rpm. Based on all the above, my next prop will be a 4 blade 17p prop in the hopes of gaining some thrust in the following sea scenario with the higher pitch. Note while I might lose 400 rpm over the 15p prop, the rated horsepower is generated at 5800 rpm so I will still be able to produce the rated horsepower with hopefully some slightly better fuel economy.
d. The motor starts easily with the flick of a key. It is very quiet even while running at high rpm compared to my prior engine and it is only 30 lbs heavier. Just put in gas and go.
Tom
a. With the stock 15p 3 blade it positively jumped out of the water. The acceleration was impressive with a moderately heavy load. The water conditions didn't allow me to determine WOT but I only used this prop once on the first trip and I found two problems. The manual trim release screw was fully tight so I couldn't maintain a given trim position, but it was obvious it was probably under propped and the motor was a hole too low.
b. With a 17p 3 blade and the motor raised one hole the acceleration was noticeably slower with WOT throttle at 5900 rpm and 32 mph top end. Fuel economy in a heavy boat was 3.50 mpg and improved to over 4 mpg as the boat lightened up at 22 mph. However in heavy following 3-4 foot seas, the 3 blade 17p prop makes you feel you are coming to a stop when you end up on the back side of a wave.
c. I also tried a 15p 4 blade prop and found WOT at close to 6300 with speed at 32 mph (the desired WOT on this motor is 5300 to 6300 rpm). In experimenting with this prop I also learned alot about the lean burn. At 3900 rpm I could trim the boat to get 4.5 mpg at 12-13 mph. If I advanced the throttle to 4000 rpm mileage dropped to around 3 mpg on the fuel flow meter. I've asked the dealer to research this rather large differential, but according to the factory specs it stays in lean burn mode up to just shy of 4000 rpm. Based on all the above, my next prop will be a 4 blade 17p prop in the hopes of gaining some thrust in the following sea scenario with the higher pitch. Note while I might lose 400 rpm over the 15p prop, the rated horsepower is generated at 5800 rpm so I will still be able to produce the rated horsepower with hopefully some slightly better fuel economy.
d. The motor starts easily with the flick of a key. It is very quiet even while running at high rpm compared to my prior engine and it is only 30 lbs heavier. Just put in gas and go.
Tom
starcrafttom
Active member
great to hear a long term report. If my honda bf90 ever goes out I can repower and stay with honda. Now just to get the honda to ware out before the warrentyis up. fat chance. :smilep
I think I am finally starting to figure out how to use the lean burn feature on the 2007 Honda 90. This weekend I went out with my 5th prop and think I found where my boat runs best loaded and empty. According to conventional wisdom, I should be using a 15 pitch 3 blade prop with my boat. It reaches the designated 6300 rpm at WOT just about the time it ventilates when tilting the motor up. However, if was very difficult to find an economical speed to operate when loaded if the water didn't allow you to go 20-25 mph.
This weekend I tried out a 14 pitch 3 blade Quicksilver SS prop 13 3/8 in diameter. The difference was quite pronounced. Heavily loaded (really heavy with full fuel, camping gear for 4, 3 people on board, 100 lbs of wood and charcoal, 6 sets of skiis, boots and poles. food, water etc) and could get 4.2 mpg at 12-14 mph at 4100 rpm. Even heavy I could get up to 29 mph at 6300 rpm and in fact I could overspeed the engine if I continued to trim it up.
With a light boat (one person half fuel, and minimal gear) I was seeing 5.3 mpg at 22 mph and reached 32 mph at 6300 rpm.
The engine gets it best fuel economy when it is lightly loaded. By dropping the pitch one inch, I was able to keep engine loading down. The previous economical cruise loaded was 3900 rpm which on a 15 pitch 3 blade prop was hardly on step at 11 mph. Now the economical cruise is between 4100 and 4200 rpm at 12-14 mph (the calculated slip is less on the 14 pitch prop).
The one thing I did notice was the effect of cold water on the cooling system and engine performance. The water temps were 38 to 40F. I could not get decent fuel economy at any speed until, I ran for a few minutes at 90% throttle. The engine wouldn't heat up enough to run efficiently. If I slowed down and ran at 1500 to 2000 rpm for 10 minutes or so, it would cool down and not run at best efficiency until I made another higher rpm run. I guess most people don't run in water this cold.
This weekend I tried out a 14 pitch 3 blade Quicksilver SS prop 13 3/8 in diameter. The difference was quite pronounced. Heavily loaded (really heavy with full fuel, camping gear for 4, 3 people on board, 100 lbs of wood and charcoal, 6 sets of skiis, boots and poles. food, water etc) and could get 4.2 mpg at 12-14 mph at 4100 rpm. Even heavy I could get up to 29 mph at 6300 rpm and in fact I could overspeed the engine if I continued to trim it up.
With a light boat (one person half fuel, and minimal gear) I was seeing 5.3 mpg at 22 mph and reached 32 mph at 6300 rpm.
The engine gets it best fuel economy when it is lightly loaded. By dropping the pitch one inch, I was able to keep engine loading down. The previous economical cruise loaded was 3900 rpm which on a 15 pitch 3 blade prop was hardly on step at 11 mph. Now the economical cruise is between 4100 and 4200 rpm at 12-14 mph (the calculated slip is less on the 14 pitch prop).
The one thing I did notice was the effect of cold water on the cooling system and engine performance. The water temps were 38 to 40F. I could not get decent fuel economy at any speed until, I ran for a few minutes at 90% throttle. The engine wouldn't heat up enough to run efficiently. If I slowed down and ran at 1500 to 2000 rpm for 10 minutes or so, it would cool down and not run at best efficiency until I made another higher rpm run. I guess most people don't run in water this cold.