New member, researching C25 and V26

S

shift worker

New member
Hello,

I'd like to introduce myself and ask a few quick questions. My wife and I are moving from Gig Harbor, WA home to Tallahassee, FL by way of CA. While in WA, we were sailors and had a C&C 34+ that we loved and cruised all around the Puget Sound with. We are still sailors at heart and value seaworthiness, quality construction, and the bond between a family and their boat. For our move to FL, circumstances have changed and we're moving to a gas-powered vessel.

We are looking at a used (2009) C-dory 25, a used (2007) Cape Cruiser 26, and a used (2009) C-dory Venture 26.

We will be using the boat for family trips to the local islands where we will beach the boat frequently. We will also do a bit of fishing and general puttering about.

Thankfully, these boats are all close to home so we will be able to see them all, and hopefully do a comparative sea trial in each.

I am hoping to get some feedback from owners of these vessels regarding what you would look for (positive and negative) if you were buying a used model.

Also, if you have owned more than one of these, I would very much appreciate your feedback. In order to avoid an endless comparison thread, please feel free to email or PM me.

Thank you for maintaining this website as a resource, and I look forward to your replies.
 
Welcome aboard! The boats you are asking about are more similar than they are different. There are subtle differences in deadrise at the stern, the direction the toilet faces, cabin width, and interior finishing.

We have owned a CD-25 for 7 years now. There are many folks here who were (and some still are) sailors. I've described the C-Dorys as powerboats with a sailing sensibility... you can run at displacement speed or you can push the throttle forward and run at 3 times that speed (or more). Compared to most sailboats, the cabin in the 25/26 foot boats you are considering are spacious and bright... good visibility all around within the cabin. Not sure on the 26 Venture, but the CD-25 has 6'10" cabin height, adding to the open feeling.

On thing I wasn't sure about was the enclosed helm... until you use it for even a short time. It is GREAT! All day runs are easy, since you aren't taking a beating from sun or weather. Rain? Turn on the wipers and keep going. Your foulies aren't going to see much use. :wink: Want to whip up a meal while underway? The person at the galley has the same great view as the one at the helm.

With the proper tow vehicle, you can tow to other locations... much easier than rigging a sailboat. I would expect the boats you are looking at to be in the 8,000 to 9,000 pound range, all up on a trailer. Our 25 weighs 8,700 pounds on the trailer; we tow with a GMC 2500 diesel.

The boats are well-made, pretty straight-forward to maintain. Seaworthy, but you have to slow down when the wave heights increase. Three foot chop or more can be uncomfortable, but not scary.

The best bet with the boats you are considering is a visit with each to see which one is equipped (and cared for) best for your use. LOTS of great cruising all around Florida. Some have added an air conditioner (RV type, on top of the cabin).

Good luck with the search. As a side note: we kept a small sailboat for a couple years after we purchased our C-Dory, then sold it because it wasn't seeing much use. We still like to sail... OPB (Other People's Boats). I enjoy the feel of a nice sailboat, but you will get spoiled by the easy launch and no rigging function of these boats.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Both are great boats and you need to see both to pick the one that suits you the best. The lay out of both is very much the same with a few differences. The biggest difference is the hulls. I think that the venture/cape cruiser ( same boat) has a better hull, but not by much. It has a better enter at the bow for cutting thru the chop and is wider in the aft end which I believe accounts for better fuel mileage ( again slight) and better performance at speed. That is my opinion and others will have theirs. I have be able to drive at one time or another cd22, cc25 venture 23 and venture 26 as well as the new boats Les is building. I prefer the cape cruiser/venture hull if not the lay our over the cdory. Its up to you but I would get a test drive in both and not make your decisions based just on the layout or looks of the boat. Both boats are great for what you want to do.
 
starcrafttom":hqiscb4y said:
The biggest difference is the hulls. I think that the venture/cape cruiser ( same boat) has a better hull, but not by much.
Click to expand...

In addition to what you mentioned, and at least in the 22/23' size (not sure how the 25 compares in this way) my sense is that the "evolution" of the hulls from C-Dory to Venture to Marinaut provides more reserve buoyancy aft, which better accommodates today's heavier engines.

That said, a huge factor for me would be care and condition of any used vessel, so that might trump slight design variances (all else not being equal).
 
Thanks for the welcome and good information. I agree, most of this will come down to the condition of each boat and motor as these boats seem very similar.

If anyone knows of any commonly occurring defects or issues in a particular model year or version of the boat, please PM me that information so that I can inspect that area closely when comparing these boats next week.

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to becoming a C-Brat!
 
Water intrusion in the stern has always been a concern for small out board boats. Several boat owners here have had that problem. That problem has mostly been caused, not by the builders, by the improper installation of after market items like motors, trim tabs and sending units for depth/fish finders. Also all hull penetrations inside the boat in to the deck are subject to potential problems depending on quality of installation. Other then that there is little that can be wrong with the boat itself. Most problems are added on equipment.
 
The cape cruiser and Venture 26 are basically the same boats. The Cape Cruiser made by some ex C Dory (old company employees) when the Reynold's owned the C Dory company (2002 thru 2008), and there was a non competition clause which went to court. The Reynolds won, and took the molds for the Cape Cruiser and re-named it the Venture (23 and 26 foot hulls).

Look at details and finish work in both boats. I know something about both boats and would reply on P M, about items to look for.

One thing which was not clear if you were just going to be two people or if you were considering sleeping more than two.

Since I know the waters in your area, you will probably mostly be running in the ICW or across several bays. C Dories also go out some distance into the Gulf on fairly calm days.

Your best resource is to spend a few days reading the posts on this web site, if you have not already done so.
 
We are right down the street in Eastpoint . Might be looking at a couple we have . Ill be happy to give you the Wefings hospitality tour of any of the boats we have !
Look forward to meeting you !
Marc
 
The previous posts do a good job of describing our boats.

I moved from a 32" PDQ catamaran to a CD25. It was a good choice for us. We do the same 6 knots on the same fuel burn (6 knots per gallon) as the catamaran.

No longer worry about bridges or tight anchorages, and the CD is a lot less work.

Best thing is I can pull it anywhere in a short period of time, Alaska 3 years ago, Canadian canals last summer, and the keys in five hours instead of five days.

I'm near Wildwood , Florida, about three hours south of Tallahassee by interstate.

When you get to Florida, give me a PM. Be glad to assist you in any way I can.
 
The previous posts do a good job of describing our boats.

I moved from a 32" PDQ catamaran to a CD25. It was a good choice for us. We do the same 6 knots on the same fuel burn (6 knots per gallon) as the catamaran.

No longer worry about bridges or tight anchorages, and the CD is a lot less work.

Best thing is I can pull it anywhere in a short period of time, Alaska 3 years ago, Canadian canals last summer, and the keys in five hours instead of five days.

I'm near Wildwood , Florida, about three hours south of Tallahassee by interstate.

When you get to Florida, give me a PM. Be glad to assist you in any way I can.
 
Thanks for all the replies and good info. Also, thanks for the PMs. This seems to be a great community.

I've read a bit about the water intrusion issues, and looked at Thataway's rebuild. Impressive job! Very informative as well. Wet core was always a concern of mine with my balsa-cored C&C.

Has anyone seen/done a wet core job on one of the foam versions? I'd be curious about Pascoe's claim that wet foam turns to mush. Probably depends on the kind of foam. I'd also wonder if it pulls apart from the fiberglass more easily as claimed. Lastly, I wonder if water would travel the same distance within a foam core as with Balsa. The foam vs. balsa issue is an interesting subject and has so many unsubstantiated marketing claims for arguments. If anyone has any first-hand experience with a wet foam core, your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I'll see you local folks out on the water.

- Adam
 
I don't have a large enough sample size to be definitive, but some thoughts:

While foam is less prone to rot than wood (core), there is a danger in being too casual about it (not saying you would!), and "not worrying" (I say this because I've read people write things like "oh, no need to epoxy fill holes, it's foam cored!" I believe it can still de-bond from the fiberglass (perhaps slightly easier than balsa does), and then you have three floppy boats instead of one stiff one. I also think it's slightly harder to get a good bond to the glass with foam, but that's not to say it does not make a good bond. I was at a workshop with Bruce Pfund (boat/fiberglass guru) and he was showing how they had learned to get a better bond with foam by first squeegeeing resin into it (before adding glass). That was interesting. Of course too, a lot of cored boats are much larger and subjected to much more stresses than our type/size boats, so we have scale going for us.

Another thing is that water can travel through gaps in any core (in fact there is some discussion that it is actively "drawn" through vs. just flowing because, to some extent, a boat "pants" through temperature changes), and most cored boats I've seen are made with core sections that are scored in a grid pattern (so it will bend to compound curves). When I've done my own coring jobs, I've laid the core "inside out" over a bucket or something (picture the way you cut a mango and fold it back) and then filled all the gaps with thickened epoxy, but I would guess many builders don't do that, thus there can be many pathways through the core.

All that to say that for myself, I slightly prefer balsa, but I wouldn't turn down foam at all (and it has some advantages, so I don't think there is one "best" material). Others prefer foam. I think on lower speed/lower tech boats it mainly comes down to construction care and maintenance/refit care.

The main thing to me is to keep the water out (as you well know if you had a C & C..... a friend of mine with a boat shop in the Midwest recored a huge portion of the hull on one - what a project), and, one hopes, to buy a boat that doesn't already have wet core (unless looking for a project).

Luckily our boats are manageably small :)

Sunbeam
 
Adam,

I don't know first hand about how well foam cores hold up when exposed to water but I did find some foam segments that had drifted from Japan to the Oregon coast and they were not mushy at all (good shape unfortunately).

You have received good advice from earlier posts. Stop by and see Marc, he has a good reputation as an honest dealer who will give you some good advice and show you the features of some of the boats that you're considering.
 
The differences are slight, and I would mostly consider condition, price, and how the boat is rigged.

The CD 25 has a slightly wider table, and a slightly narrower gunwale and center aisle.
The CD Venture 26 and CC Marinaut (26) have slightly harder chines and a full height transom. The Marinaut has a balsa core like the CD 25, but the Venture has a foam core. The Venture also has a headliner.

When will you be in California? Perhaps a comparison float could be arranged.

David
 
The cd 25 has a 6ft 10 in headroom also a little more storage The venture 26 has 6ft 4 in headroom also opening into v-berth is a little bigger in cd 25 . The head (toilet) in v-26 has a little more room then the cd25. The v-26 has a little more degree of deadrise and entry then a cd25 . empty weight is 4000lb for v-26 vs 3600lb for cd25 .
I would go look at both boats and ride both boats then make a decision . Marc at Wefings is only a few miles from tallahasee go see him for great info on both boats .good luck in your quest .
 
Generally Balsa has better shear strength than most foams (but it depends on the specific foam/core material). Also the adhesion to balsa is slightly better. There are not enough of the C Dory line with foam core to come to any conclusions about delamination. I have seen some large boats with delimitation in both foam and balsa--and I have done both destructive and NDT testing on foam and balsa cored boats over 30 years old which are still as solid as the day they were built. If either type is built properly--and the fittings are done right, they should last more than a boating lifetime.
 
The C dory web site says that for a CD 25 Cruiser, towing weight is 4800 lbs; boat motor, trailer and fuel. Is this true? So how much can you expect your gear to add to that? Can you tow it with a 4.6 liter V8 rated for 7700 lbs towing capacity?
Thanks,
Buddy bob
 
budbeck":11mwd9ag said:
The C dory web site says that for a CD 25 Cruiser, towing weight is 4800 lbs; boat motor, trailer and fuel. Is this true? So how much can you expect your gear to add to that?
Click to expand...

I would say that must be wishful thinking. Reason is that I just weighed my 22 Cruiser "all up" on the (tandem-axle) trailer and it came to 4,180#. on the axles. Tongue weight was 330# for a total of 4,510#. This was with no water or fuel aboard, but a lot of extra gear for now (traveling with a buddy and transporting dive gear, extra tools, etc.). I'm guessing that I'll be close to the same loaded for typical cruising. This is a 22, not a 25.

Sunbeam
 
Thanks, it sounded too good to be true. I guess that's why most of the used CD 25's don't have a trailer. So, more like a 3/4 ton pick up or larger with 12,000 + towing capacity?
I appreciate the info.
 
Hi again,

Thank you all for your help.

More regarding core:

El Jefe Pascoe says that the inner and outer fiberglass layers work like a diaphragm to actively pump and distribute water throughout the core. I can buy that theoretically, but its all academic until someone goes through a rebuild I guess.

Sunbeam, thanks for the tip of filling the slices between the mango squares! Seems like a smart idea. In production mode, it sure wouldn't be a bad idea to at least do that every few feet to serve as a dam/contamination barrier, but I'm sure it's time intensive/expensive.

Marc, I'll get in touch with you soon. I'm still mid-move, so things are a bit crazy at the moment. I used to hang out in appalach a bit when I was a kid with my parents and the weather was too bad to go out from Carrabelle. Is that Frog Level/Boss Oyster place still there? Best blue crabs around.

Looking forward to it,

Adam
 
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