New Tomcat owner with questions

[bjohnson93401]

Hi there. I'm a new Tomcat owner - also new to this forum - and I have some questions that hopefully people here can help with. I've only had the boat a few months. I just finished a two week cruise in the Sea of Cortez and was EXTREMELY pleased with the boat in all regards. Anyhow, here are my questions:

1. Where can I get extra key blanks for the cabin door lock? The one key I have is stamped "TrioVing (Norway)" and there is a number code stamped into it. I have been to three locksmiths and all have turned me away.

2. Any tips on priming the fresh water pressure pump? I found myself sucking on the galley faucet to prime the pump. Not something I'm anxious to repeat.

3. The boat rides very low in the water, particularly on the port side, with full water and fuel. Presumably this is because the water tank and batteries are both on the port side, but I'm still surprised at how low it rides. It is so low in fact that with 4 people in the cockpit water was coming IN the port scupper. Does everyone else experience this too?

4. I'm seeing galvanic corrosion on the swim step, around the base of the stainless railings. Not too surprising since the step is aluminum and the railings are stainless. What have others done to arrest this?

Thank you! If I could figure out how, I'd attach a photo, but I'm not seeing that option....

Brennan

 

[hardee]

Good Morning Brennan, And Welcome to the C-BRATS. Obviously you have good choice in boats, and hopefully you find that this is a good choice here as well. I'm not a TomCat owner, but I know several folks here who are and you couldn't find a nicer bunch of folks. I'm sure you will get helpful response on all your questions. There is just about everything you could want to know about C-Dory boats here on the site, so I'm confident you will be glad you stopped in, and that you will want to stick around and become part of the family.

As to finding the answers, the search function is easy and if done right, very helpful. Click on the "Search" button under the top banner box. Under the top Dark thick line across the page labeled "Search Query", click in the top empty box and type in "Key AND cabin AND door" Click in the cirlce marked "Search all terms" and drop down to the bottom of the search box and click on "Search". That will open a list of threads. Look down the list, and click on whatever looks like it will be the best one for you. ("Spare Cabin Keys" looks good, so go there.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... cabin+door

and if that one doesn't have what you want, use the back arrow at the top right corner and you can get right back to your searched list.

You can do the same for your other answers too, but I'm sure you will get good responses from current or past TomCat owners too. I remember sitting in the cockpit of a friends TC-255 and hearing the blurp blurp as the waves went in and out of the aft scuppers. Good thing was that my feet stayed dry.

Hope that helps. Don't be shy about asking, and stick around, ask the "nerds" for a photo album and share what you are doing with the boat. Sounds like tht Cortez cruize must have been fun.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[thataway]

Welcome aboard! You have the premier of C Dory boats..

Answers to your questions: or at least food for thought!
1: Key. I have had my local locksmith make keys, but he is a gunsmith and makes guns from scratch. He used a blank which was close and did custom cutting.

On e-bay there are a few who have close blanks cut like:
this. or
orthis or
The company which also owns "Diamond Sea Glaze" who most likely made your windows and door. I would approach the latter, and they may have the key by your number available.
Internet search will bring more.

2. There is something wrong with your fresh water pump--they should be self priming. Most likely it is an air leak on the suction side--maybe a hose clamp loose, or there is some debris in the check valves. I would trace the lines down, watching in all areas for leaks, or loose fittings. Take the suction hose off (should be a filter before this)--check the fitting for tight seal around the "O" ring at filter clear dome and base.
See if any debris in the filter (could be left over from building). You may even have to tear the pump down, and check the valves (fairly easy to do) and see if any defect in the valves, or debris. Of course this should be covered under warranted, but...where is your dealer? Also check with the factory, to see if they will authorize service, if you cannot do the work--but watch how it is done, so you can do it in the future. I don't know where your pump is located. Mine was on top of the tank in the galley. With a Starboard tank, it was not a long distance or great lift.

3. Ride low in the water:.A The boat started of as a 24 foot Tom Cat, considerably lighter. The same hull was used for the 255, (with outboard bracket, and transom modification) which is much heavier. Original boats had 90 or 115 hp engines. The bridge deck should have been raised up 6" to give adequate tunnel clearance.

Keep as much weight out of the stern area. I moved some batteries forward (bought AGMs, because they can be placed on side or end, plus do not significantly out-gass, so safe for in cabin use. Put those to balance the boat. You can put plugs in the scuppers.

The water tank has been variously on the port or starboard. I had ordered my boat with two water tanks--they didn't put in the second one, but the next boat had it on the port side, instead of the Starboard side, as my boat. You could put in a second tank (significant work to cut thru the floors etc). You could fairly easily put in a bladder tank, and fill, pick up on the Starboard side. Or you could put extra batteries, and other heavy gear in the hull on the Starboard side.

4. Engine bracket corrosion. Some boats had Armstrong brackets. I understand that another provider is building the brackets currently. It is possible that there is a non marine grade aluminum...Is there a zinc on each side? What metal is the zinc? (Zinc, Magnesium or aluminum?) Is that zinc or bracket bonded into the system? How is it bonded? Have you been plugged into 110 volt shore power? Has there been reverse polarity? Is your galvanic isolator working properly? Is there bottom paint, what type? Any copper in bottom paint?

There is galvanic corrosion and electrolysis. See
this link for one simple explanation.

If the zinc is wrong, if there is poor paint adhesion, (inadequate prep and primer), if there is mis-wiring, in your boat, or the dock all different types of problems. I have seen the bonding and "negative" on the boat tied together. Get one of the simple 110 15 amp circuit checkers--this could be feeding power to the ground system=danger)
like this.

A digital volt meter is essential to have aboard and learn how to use, if you don't already know how. This will help checking may issues down the line.

I realize a lot to throw at you, but the more you learn about your boat and its potential issues, the better you will be able to solve the problems--especially if you are going to be in remote areas.

You have a great boat--and there will be a few "bugs" even in a new boat...If you go back in the archives and read about my issues which were mostly quality control--should not be as many now... I fixed most of my own, but it took 6 months to get things all taken care of...

I am sending a PM, with my phone number if you want to discuss specific issues.

 

[Pacificcoast101]

While it may seem obvious, check to make sure the water pressure switch on the dash is on and lit. If not, it could be a fuse. I have had to replace a couple of pumps.
I have three batteries at the stern and with four people and dive gear we get water in the scuppers. We now gear up two at a time on the rare occasion we have four onboard.

 

[gulfcoast john]

Welcome, Brennan, and congrats on your 'new to you' 2009 255 Tomcat. It's a great boat, you're going to love it.
Don't bother getting a stainless TrioVing key...no local locksmith will cut it. I had the same locksmith/gunsmith Bob referred to cut a brass copy for me, no problem. On the other hand, your local meth-heads can break that door with a large screwdriver, and the door may be worth more than what you keep on your boat. All depends on your marina and it’s security, of course. (Mine is patrolled by MP’s with M-16’s and tactical shotguns in the trunk, and they are very good shooters). Anything made by Diamond Sea Glaze tends to cost about $12 per ounce, prior to Customs and shipping. That door is a lotta ounces. (Half jesting).
The boat has 2 75-gallon gas tanks, that's 900 lbs of gas you don't want to be hauling around if you don't really need to. Same for 30 gallons of water, which is 8 lbs per gallon. It performs better when light and is sensitive to weight distribution like all cats.
Every owner seems to get water incoming thru the aft scuppers when very heavily loaded.
My freshwater pump for the port sponson water tank is in the starboard sponson; access plate in the stdbd berth. I’d say replace that pump, since it’s 7 years out of warranty, I’m not as handy as Bob, and pumps on sale are cheap compared to replacing multiple parts. Hope you’re skinny and have very long arms (like Bob).
My bracket is by (now defunct) PooderBuilt. I’ve noted enlarging bracket epoxy/powdercoat or whatever it is bubbles or blisters mostly near the topside access ports (which have stainless screws in the housing) over the past several years. This year some ‘popped’ exposing what looked like bare aluminum (not primer) underneath. This area is never exposed to salt water except when coming on/off plane. My thinking is that non-submerged area can’t be galvanic corrosion without an electrolyte/saltwater immersion more often than that. I’m looking forward to Bob Austin’s insights re this. At annual service at my fav 5-star Yamaha dealer (Paradise Marine in Foley, Al) I asked about this and their expert declared it just a poor bracket paint job in a saltwater environment. Their subcontractor sanded it off, primed and repainted and topcoated with nonskid above the bottompaint for $800. Looks beautiful.
On the underwater portion of each bracket, I’ve had several areas under 1 inch of bright silver tiny scratches in a cross-hatched pattern where my last driveway bottom-coat job (with Petitt Hydrocoat Eco, which is totally metal-free) looks like it was blown off by the scratches.
I find the anode protection system for the bracket puzzling, but it’s the same on other brackets I’ve seen and what Armstrong said when I called…there should be a 3 inch saltwater Martyr non-bonded clamshell bolted to the underside. Well, the bracket comes powder-coated, so that clamshell is not touching any bare metal aluminum on the bracket on the inside or the outside of the bracket. You can not sand off that powdercoat and I’m not sure you should even try. The stainless bolt connecting the 2 halves of the clamshell was of course sealed with 4200 or whatever, so even the bolt has no electrical contact with the bracket. Without the sealant, seawater would fill up the bracket up to the waterline, defeating it’s purpose in life. The inside of an outboard bracket of any brand should be dry.
So how the heck does an anode with no electrical connection to the metal it’s responsible for ‘protecting’ sacrifice itself when immersed in saltwater, even if wants to?
My theory is that the culprit is an old Petitt Ultima bottompaint on the bracket. This has, according to Petitt, the highest amount of cuprous oxide available in any bottompaint (over 50%). It was presumably applied by a well-respected C-Dory Dealer (Mobile East Marine) for the previous owner over 3 coats Interlux epoxy (he gave me all the almost empty cans) and the PooderBuilt factory powdercoat, which was said to be 3 mil thick. If ME used something else for the bracket, they didn’t give the PO that can.
I have read threads by good folks that with all those layers of protection on a bracket it’s fine to use a copper bottompaint, and by others who say ‘never under any conditions whatsoever.’ My own experience is that anything on a boat that can go wrong will try it’s best to do so, says ‘never take a chance’. PS the Hydrocoat ECO allowed some bad hard growth over 2 seasons on the bracket. I’m thinking of hiring a local to soda-blast the bracket down to the (white) epoxy then repainting with ECO.
Brennan, good luck and we’ll all appreciate Bob’s take on this. Considering the hard life our brackets lead, I think an $800 paint job down to bare aluminum was well worth it, others won’t.

Happy Boating!
John

 

[cmetzenberg]

ah, another 805 tomcat owner. The faucet issue is weird. All else perfectly normal. I'm wondering if you have a leak on the suction side of the pump? Time to crawl under that galley cabinet.

 

[bjohnson93401]

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions! Very thorough and helpful indeed. Here are a few comments/clarifications to my original post:

The fresh water pump: The (one) fresh water tank is on the port side, below the forward settee seat. The pump is located blow the galley sink: 8-10' of tubing away! (I'm a little surprised about this install). Anyhow, I am certain that the pump was running (so no fuse/electrical issue), and I know that the tank was full. I checked the filter upstream from the pump, and it was clear. Once I got the pump primed, it worked flawlessly. And, oddly, it HELD a "siphon" of sorts in the line - I could have water flow out the faucet even with the pump off, once the line was full. So that tells me that there is (probably) no air leak in the upstream side of the line. Anyhow, we'll see what happens when I revisit the boat again in January and if I have to reprime the pump.

Weight distribution: 30 gal water tank on port side, below settee, front seat. Two AGM batteries, port side, below settee, aft seat. I'm running in remote areas (and still learning the boat) so I'm opting for full fuel and full water. So yes, along with twin Honda 150's, I'm definitely running heavy.

Swim step corrosion: I forget the brand of bracket / dive platform / step that I have. It may be Armstrong. I don't believe that there are any zincs on it. It is ALWAYS wet though. Zinc's on both outboard motors, of course.

I've been a sailor my whole life and have owned sailboats. This is my first power boat. It just seemed to fit my needs and lifestyle so much better - especially for the Sea of Cortez. Now if I can just convince the fish to jump into it. :smiled

Brennan

 

[thataway]

After reading Brennen's and John's posts several times, I have to apologize and back track a little. I had envisioned as the "galvanic corrosion" Brennen mentioned as being under the water--it apparently is only on the top of the engine bracket, apparently the SS rails only. (I had falsely envisioned this as also being the fastenings to the boat--which are not mentioned). My bad...

I don 't know exactly how "Te Atatu's" 2009 engine bracket/swim step was prepared--pointed or powder coated. John's boat is a 2010 and PCH's is a 2008, which may both be different (Mine was a 2006). I didn't have any galvanic issues when I sold my boat in 2011. But she was kept on a lift or trailer all of her life, except a few weeks at my dock (close to fresh water) or when cruising.

What would I do? A lot depends on how the bracket was prepped and coated. I probably would pull the railings and sand down this area. Try and match the coating (I was under the impression that my 2006 Armstrong bracket was painted with 2 part LP--but am not positive about this. I have seen some say that various 2 parts were used, and others say powder coated. Armstrong supplies brackets with "touch up finish"-to me that suggests a paint...

My guess is that if Brennen looks very carefully, he will find more issues with the bracket, and a repaint may be in order...being in the land of cheap paint jobs...Loreto...? I don't know what is available there, but some Mexican shipyards offer quite good craftsmen.

After re-coationg I would put Delren or similar material under the railings, and then use Tef Gel on the bolts holding the SS railings to the bracket.

John, my zincs were bolted on with a nut on the inside, where there seemed to be good metal contact. I am of the opinion that no copper containing bottom paint should be put on any aluminum structure on a boat. Armstrong advises against it--period. One of the warnings, even on outdrives, if you use copper based bottom paint, keep it at least 3/4" from any of the aluminum...(and aluminum specific anti fouling paints).


I would consider issues with the SS fittings on the access ports--again use TefGel. I have had SS winches on aluminum masts, if if not using some material to prevent issues, with the SS bolts, there will be bubbling, even on a mast which should never be in the water...But the salt air is enough...

Preparing aluminum for paint, is a process: Have to clean well, degrease, sand, scotch brite pad, Dry, Etch, epoxy primer -- and then over coats.

As for bonding, my recollection on my Tom Cat, was that at least one of the transom bolts was bonded.

Hope this helps.

 

[Discovery]

Brennan, I think the others have covered your issues and I have nothing to add. I was just wondering what areas of the Sea of Cortez you boat in? We used to spend the winters in Mag Bay La Paz and Cabo San Lucas, and some summer time in the Loreto, Mulege and Conception area, also Bahia de Los Angeles. We haven't been back in 12 years, but would consider doing it again. Do you boat from Baja or the mainland side?

 

[bjohnson93401]

Brennan, I think the others have covered your issues and I have nothing to add. I was just wondering what areas of the Sea of Cortez you boat in? We used to spend the winters in Mag Bay La Paz and Cabo San Lucas, and some summer time in the Loreto, Mulege and Conception area, also Bahia de Los Angeles. We haven't been back in 12 years, but would consider doing it again. Do you boat from Baja or the mainland side?

I trailered the boat from California down Mex Hwy 1 (a white-knickle drive!) to Loreto on Baja. My "home port" is Loreto. The boat is being stored on a trailer in a secure yard in town. In the two weeks that I was there I went only about 30 miles north to San Juanico, returned to reprovision, and then about 30 miles south to Agua Verde. Of course with stops at the various islands and a bunch of other running around looking for the yellowtail. Absolutely stunningly beautiful country, warm clear water, and increibly friendly and gracious people. (again, wish I could figure out how to post pics here!).

Brennan

 

[Larry H]

To get a photo album, send a PM (Private Message, in tab at top of home page) to either Tyboo or Da Nag, (the moderators) or both requesting a photo album. They will set up an album for you. After posting photos to your album, you can place the photos in your posts, or place a link in your post to your album.

Ask again after you get your album for instructions on how to place photos in your posts.

Oh, and welcome to the C-Brats.

 

[rogerbum]

Welcome, Brennan, and congrats on your 'new to you' 2009 255 Tomcat. It's a great boat, you're going to love it.
Don't bother getting a stainless TrioVing key...no local locksmith will cut it. <stuff clipped>

I bought Trioving key blanks from Diamond SeaGlaze - I think they were about $12/ea including shipping and if I recall, at one time, a number of C-brats went in on an order since most of the cost is in shipping/customs (the same keys are used in most glass doors on C-Dory boats). I had no problem getting the blank cut at a local hardware store.

 

[Discovery]

Brennan, We have spent a lot of time in Puerto Escondito. We stayed in the RV park at Tripui and had a few friends that were homeowners there. The last time we were there, was a month before the fire that destroyed all the homes. July 25th 2004

I'll look and see if I still have GPS spots for Yellowtail fishing reefs. They were on the chart plotter on the 24 TomCat. I hope I saved them.

 

[bjohnson93401]

Brennan, We have spent a lot of time in Puerto Escondito. We stayed in the RV park at Tripui and had a few friends that were homeowners there. The last time we were there was a month before the fire that destroyed all the homes.

I'll look and see if I still have GPS spots for Yellowtail fishing reefs. They were on the chart plotter on the 24 TomCat. I hope I saved them.

I hope you did too! Sending you a PM about Tripui...

 

[MikeR]

My bracket is by (now defunct) PooderBuilt.

Unless this is very recent news, Pooderbuilt is not defunct he just rebranded to PDR Marine couple of years back but still uses the same web address www.pooderbuilt.com

Here is a PDR/Pooderbuilt bracket on a 255 at the factory tour we attended in August. The NMI guy said they've used both Armstrong brackets and PDR and are currently using PDR. He makes all the railings and brackets for C-dory, Sea Sport and the other NMI lines so would be surprised if that's chaned in the last 4 months?

 

[bjohnson93401]

That looks like what I have... stainless railings running right into the aluminum bracket. The white paint on the bracket right around the railings is "bubbling up" from (what I assume to be) the galvanic action.

 

[thataway]

Is there also bubbling around the ladder bracket?

No way to know if a 2009 boat has the same bracket a 2016 boat does--unless there is something distinct. To me it does look slightly different than the Armstrong bracket I had, so I would contact PDR to see what paint or coating process they used.

If putting the SS bolts in with "Tef Gel" and the insulating plates I suggested, worries you, then I would make a very short sleeve of an insulting material around the SS bolt, and a insulating washing under the Nylox on the inside. Anything to insulate the SS from the Aluminum.

 

[bjohnson93401]

Is there also bubbling around the ladder bracket?

No way to know if a 2009 boat has the same bracket a 2016 boat does--unless there is something distinct. To me it does look slightly different than the Armstrong bracket I had, so I would contact PDR to see what paint or coating process they used.

If putting the SS bolts in with "Tef Gel" and the insulating plates I suggested, worries you, then I would make a very short sleeve of an insulting material around the SS bolt, and a insulating washing under the Nylox on the inside. Anything to insulate the SS from the Aluminum.

Gents:

I just returned from Loreto again and got more clarity on my issues...

First, the swim step: It is a Pooderbuilt step, and the bubbling is only around where the handrail meets the step. (I put photos of this in my photo album "Te Atatu" but can't seem to figure out how to insert into this message.) There are no zincs anywhere on the step, just on the outboards themselves. This summer, when I can spend more time down there, I'll work on pulling the ladder, touching up the step, isolating the connection for the railing.

Fresh water pump: no issues this time whatsoever. Maybe last time it was just because the boat had sat unused for a prolonged period of time that I had trouble getting the pump to prime.

Spare keys for the cabin door lock: I found some blanks on Amazon last fall, cheap. Set of five blanks, shipped from Bulgaria or some such place. I had two cut in Mexico, and they seem perfect. I've got three blanks left that I'm happy to mail (free) to the first people that PM me. They are not the TrioVang blanks, they are JMA TV3D. They work.

Brennan[/img]

 

[thataway]

Here is your photo of the bubbling:



All I can say is "wow" for a new boat. I would say poor prep, poor paint job and poor insulation between the SS and the aluminum bracket.

At this point. I would probably just take a very simple approach--scrape all of the loose paint off. Clean up the area stripped--first soap and water, then acetone, wire brush (SS brush) the area and sand. Spray on Zinc chromate primer, then an outboard primer, and finally as close as you can match color coat. This is not permeant fix, but should help for now.

If possible I would isolate the SS railings from the aluminum of the bracket.

For putting photos into the message: Go to photo, on the MAC click "Control" Key (I believe it is the "ctrl" key in windows machine; and select" copy image address". click the box "img" in header, then paste the address and click "img*"