New Yamaha EFI Engines

S

Sea Wolf

New member
Sneaks":1aphu6d4 said:
Jenny B update: Yamaha is hoarding the new EFI 75 hp 4 strokers. Not available anywhere (yet). Sigh.
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Sneaks- Not true about the new Yamahas. Gunther's (Bodega Bay, Ca), installed my new 2005 Yamaha 90 EFI 4-stroke Friday, 8/20. I haven't had it in the water yet, but will tomorrow or Tuesday. Still no printed literature on the 2005's. But the Yamaha web site has information and animated illustrations. Go to their web site and look under "News".

Here's the link:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/ot ... f90_pi.htm

Joe.
 
THANK YOU JOE!

I spent most of last Wednesday calling Yamaha dealerships from Los Angeles to the Mexican border and none of them have the new EFI midrange engines at this point. Most told me to call back in mid October.

I left messages on allcoastsportfishing.com, goboatingamerica.com and thehulltruth.com asking if anybody had actually seen a production EFI Yamaha midrange outboard and got no response whatsoever. You're the first person I've run across who has actually seen one. That gives me hope that it's just a temporary situation. Your dealer must have a serious Yamaha connection!
 
Sneaks- Here's the REAL DEAL on my new Yamaha:

The engine's shipping container was damaged-absolutely no damage to the engine, but the container was damaged, so the shipping companies won't touch it because they are afraid it will result in a damage/insurance claim. Gunther buys these motors for less from the importer and passes the savings (about $1000) on to the buyer. No change in the warranty-full 3 years mechanical.

The engine lists at $8500 plus controls and prop, usually about $500 more, plus installation labor, which can be either included in the price, or $400-$600 extra, depending on negotiations, just like buying a car. If they give you a rock bottom motor price, then they have to make it back on the controls, prop, and/or installation..... they have to make a profit somewhere (!!!!)

Gunther sold me the entire motor, controls, prop, and installation out the door for $8062 (tax included), plus they will sell my two take off motors for no commission on their internet connection, after servicing and testing them.

I have shopped for a new motor for the past several years, trying to discuss details about the pros and cons of each brand and every conceviable way to work the price/cost angles until I felt I knew enough about the process to go in to negotiations knowledgably.

When Gunther made this offer to me, I knew I had found the Holy Grail. Not to mention it's a 2005, months ahead of the general availability, and the FINAL CROWNING GIFT------EFI and a larger alternator! I had been trying to find a 115 Yammy just to get the EFI, so this was the Free Pass to Circle the Bases for the price of the Double Discount Fare.

I spent quite a bit of time talking to the entire shop crew ion the installation day, and they are as good as you can find. Another plus, plus, plus.

Sometimes life's little details just fall into place, and sometimes you feel like Wiley Coyote and just can't win "nohow". We had a good day here. Joe.
 
Sometimes life's little details just fall into place, and sometimes you feel like Wiley Coyote and just can't win "nohow". We had a good day here. Joe.

Indeed you did have a good day! My challenge has always been patience (lack of) so I'm rationalizing the wait as just another life lesson. It's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I'll be very interested in your first reports on the new engine and how you propped it.
 
Sneaks- I'm taking the boat out tomorrow, and after a few hours of break-in, should be able to take it up to full throttle for very short periods.

My calculations show that a 17 inch pitch prop with the 2.31:1 ratio should be about equal to the 15 inch prop on my old Evinrude 90 at 2:1.

Using a proportion and solving for X:

2.00.................15
________ = _______ , and X = 17.325, the new prop equivalent.

2.31..................X

(had to use................to keep the spacing for the math)


That's also what Steve at Gunthers concluded from the charts, so we'll have to wait and see if we're right.

With the same gear ratio but only 75 hp instead of 90, the Yamaha 75 would probably require a less steep prop, say a 15 inch pitch, maybe an inch less or so. But that's another guessing game and more dependent on the particular boat, it's load, altitude, uses, etc.

Let you know in a couple of days. Joe.
 
Sneaks-

Another factor in the way this works out is that I will be lightening the transom somewhat:

Before-

90 hp Evinrude= 301 lbs,
15 hp Johnson= 77lbs,
6 gal Acumix Tank= 45 lbs.
oil injection reservoir = 10 lbs,

or 433 lbs total

Now-

New engine = 386 lbs
racor fuel filter = 4 lbs

or 390 lbs total,

For a savings of 43 lbs.

Aftyer break-in, I will add a combination Doel-Fin/trolling plate unit from Cabela's that will reduce the net savings to 40 lbs, still an improvement that should be noticeable. Joe.
 
Sneaks- I've just come back from the Shasta Lake and have almost four hours on the new fuel injected Yamaha 90. It's electric smooth, and almost can't hear it idle. With the 17 inch prop and 2.31 to 1 gear ratio, top end was 30.5 mph at 5500, and my boat bottom is not at all smooth, as it has anti-fouling paint that was applied by a boatworks with a roller and looks and feels more like your average living room wall than a boat bottom. I'm going to re-do the bottom myself as soon as I can find a way to get it up off the trailer cleanly. Will use a harder, slicker paint this time, as I'm not in brackish water (California Delta) anymore

I think a 15 inch prop would let it wind up to just over the 6000 rpm redline, but will have to talk to the dealer at the 10 hour service check. The other way to go would be with a comp-prop or some other means to get a 16 inch pitch prop. A 16 inch four or five blade stainless prop might just be a nice Christmas present for around $500-$600!
 
Joe, you have my attention! I've ridden Chris's Rana Verde and was very impressed by the carbureted Yammie 4 stroke quietness. Hard to believe the EFI might be even quieter. From your figures, it appears to be a bit stronger too. I really like the built in hose connection that allows one to fresh water flush the entire engine without starting it up. My neighbors hated my old 150 hp Merc OB when it ran in the driveway.

Got word yesterday they were shipping the new C-22 to Pacific Trailer for a set of highway shoes this week, then on to Santa Ana where it will sit until the new engine arrives. I'll probably burn up the highway between here and Santa Ana making "fondling" runs. Looks like Christmas is gonna be in September here. :xnaughty
 
C-Brat MotorHeads of All Colors:

Thought I'd share with you some of the evaluations and reports from the new Yamaha 90 EFI's performance:

1. At the C-Dog get together in the California Delta a few weeks ago, we concluded the noises produced by the Yamaha 90 and the Honda 90 were indistinguishable at speed, but the Yamaha was noticeably quieter at idle. The engines appear equally as strong, but no head to head comparisons were attempted. The mileage is about twice that of my old 2 stroke Evinrude 90.

2. I'm using a 3 blade stainless 15 inch cupped large surface area prop that runs right up to 6000 rpm at the optimum atmospheric conditions and engine tilt angle in flat water. Jim's (Pounder) preference is for a 4 bladed 15 inch pitch aluminum Solas, which gives much the same result but is smoother at idle, as it "throbs" less. This may partially be due to the sharpness of the leading edge of the stainless prop at very low rpm where the flow over the prop "stalls" more than it would with a more rounded leading edge. At speeds a few hundred rpm above idle, the throbbing totally disappears. The 4 bladed 15 inch pitch Solas is probably the closest to the ideal prop for these two engines readily available today. I have a 3 bladed Yamaha OEM aluminum 17 inch pitch prop which is also excellent (and doesn't throb), but the rpm tops out at about 5500, which might be laboring the engine a bit at mid-range loads. The stainless one has been checked, balanced, and polished by a quality prop shop, so we're investigating the vibration further. A four bladed 15 inch ComProp would also be a great choice, shifting with less of a thud (less mass) and easily replaceable rather than requiring repairs.

3. The shop work after the initial break in at 10-20 hours went very well with the following highlights:

A. A four page printout was generated between the motor's on-board computer and the shop's diagnostic unit. Just like your car, the motor's computer has continuous monitor/control/memory functions and reports in at service time to the shop's diagnostic unit. There are multiple sensors that sense atmospheric and throttle body intake pressure, throttle position, rpm, engine timing, fuel mixture, consumption rate, water intake and circulation temperatures, battery and voltage regulator performance, oil pressure, and more. The computer also logs all the time spent operating in the various rpm ranges, so that you can see how you're using the engine. There are diagnostic codes for any problems, just like your modern automobile/truck. The print out eliminates a lot of "wondering" about your engine's condition and how you're making use of it.

B. All cylinders checked out at 225 psi compression (9.6 : 1).

C. Oil, filter, gear oil, and misc. shop supplies came to $34.50. Basic 1st service was $225, so the total bill with tax and "hazardous waste" (!) charge was @267.09.

D. Gunther's sold my old engines for a total of $1900, which reduced my cash out the door total to $6162 for the new motor. (Just FYI.)

I'll let FYI know how the prop issue works out later. Let me know if you have questions. I'd buy this motor over in a heartbeat. The dealer's quality service and friendliness makes it a sweet deal, not to mention the $. Joe.
 
Joe,

Thanks for the information on your new motor. I missed the first part posted during the summer.

What grade of gasoline do you run? Is regular (89 octane) OK?

Do you use a gas stabilizer?

Did you buy the extended warranty?
 
It appears there's very little difference between my 75 hp EFI and your 90, Joe. I also dropped to a 15" prop and find it gives me lots of "grunt" power at the low end. I run regular gas and use Stabil per instructions. I don't often run WOT and doubt if many of us do for any length of time.

Good info

Looking forward to running with you some time, just to see how much of a difference those 15 horses make.

Don
 
Larry-

I burn 87 octane Regular gas. Here in California, I believe, the higher octanes have more alcohol and MBTE in them, making them less efficient (='s lower mileage), higher in solvency (an issue in an older motor with carburetor or gas tank/line deposits), more likely to attract moisture, and environmentally less desirable (at least the MBTE component--a difficult to remove poison with a long half-life).

I use Ring Free (Techron) in the gas to prevent and remove carbon build-up as recommended by Yamaha. I also add Stabil to prevent breakdown of the additives and the unstable molecules created in the catalytic cracking process. I've also used Sea Foam as an partial alternative to Ring Free to add additional solvents to the mix.

I have the three year warranty as included with the new engine, but have not purchased the extended policy.

P.S.: I've enjoyed your posts on Desolation Sound. The Ramp Project seems very do-able from the rear of the boat; from the front, very difficult. How's the 40 ft trimaran building project coming?

Sitting here in rainy Northern California.....Joe
 
Joe,

Yeah, regular is 87 octane here too, :embarrased (typo).

I thought that MTBE was removed from our gasoline and methyl alcohol was substitued. I have seen a Union gas station in Malibu with a sign that said 'No MTBE'.

Why don't you join us on the Desolation Sound cruise?

The 44 ft trimaran project is moving alone. I completed the port side wingdeck planking this week. Next is getting the planking(3/8 ply with fiberglass/epoxy cover)(18 sheets or partial sheets) installed on the main hull. Much of the interior, which is clear finished Honduras mahogany, Douglas fir, and Ockume plywood(an African hardwood) is done except for the varnishing. I hope to complete this project this year so we can get on with the retirement cruising.
 
Larry- Thanks for the response!

As best I can tell, we're under current federal legislation that is forcing the phased out removal of MBTE from our gas here in California, but I don't believe it's complete as of yet. The federal legislation that demands this also requires that the MBTE be replaced with another oxyegenate, such as ethyl alcohol. This provision was written into the bill to please the Mid-West Corn farmers who for years have been trying to find an outlet for their excess corn product which, of course, can be fermented into ethyl alcohol. California, fearing large price spikes in gas prices as a result of having to import millions of gallons of alcohol from the Corn Belt, has sought an appeal through the courts that is still in progress. Union 76 went ahead on it's own a couple of years or so ago and voluntarily removed the MBTE and substituted alcohol. More details:

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/regstat ... 62142.html


Sounds like your trimaran project is coming right along!!! I admire your patience and perseverance! I'd love to see the completed (or even the uncompleted) project some day!

I'd really like to you you and the rest of the C-Brats on the Desolation Sound Cruise. Still thinking abut it and mulling it over. It's quite a ways, of course, but the miles and tolls certainly would be worth it! I'd have to buy, rent, or borrow a dinghy, though, as we really don't need one here in the waters I cruise. Will have to think further on it. Certainly a great way to start off cruising in the Northwest/B.C. !!! Would be a nice intermediate step before going up to Prince Rupert and doing the SE Alaska/Inland Passage in a following year. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????? Joe.
 
thnx Joe! Looks like a good topic, but I'll have to come back latter here... gotta go... :roll:
 
I said in an earlier post that I'd report on what the problem was with a prop I was using that was generating a"thumping" vibration at low rpm.

After checking out all the regular expected sources of vibration, such as balance, bent blade(s), etc., I was still coming up with no answers.

So I contacted Michigan Wheel's Customer Service Department, and they suggested that it might be that, although the prop may be clearing the trim tab/zinc anode to the rear of the prop, too tight a clearance there would result in a "thumping" at low rpm, especially if the trim tab were turned off the axis considerably to correct for prop torque/steering balance.

To test for this, they suggested that I remove the tab and run the motor that way to see if the vibration disappeared...so I did...and......Viola! All gone! Problem solved!!!

They said that most manufacturers make an alternate trim tab of a swept back shape to accommodate props with greater rake. For the time being, I simply modified the shape of mine to provide increased clearance until I can obtain an appropriately shaped one from a dealer and see if it will work.

Interestingly, none of the prop shops or dealers I talked to mentioned this relationship as a possible cause. I wonder how common it is and/or if they're even aware of it (?) I've never seen it mentioned on any website.

It also makes me wonder if there aren't other, perhaps more minor, incidences of this out there that haven't been identified and corrected???

No longer thumping away............Joe.
 
Joe Im'a learnin from ya bud :idea: Good report :!: I never once had to adjust for torque-steer, the hydraulic steering notices none of it. The thing with the Yami's is that wonderful steep-rake-prop they can turn. Innerestin. Very innerestin :shock:
 
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