No more C-Dory Factory service, Seattle area

F

Falco

New member
I was informed today by Bret Reynolds of C-Dory that the factory no longer services boats (including anything potentially warranty related). Instead, he is referring me to the SeaRay dealership in Fife (WA).

Did I miss something? This is the first I knew of this change.

With all due respect to SeaRay, this makes me cringe. I have had (in the past) nothing but major problems with the local SeaRay organization re: service and parts. Compared to the service the factory has offered since day one (Dr. Rick in particular), this is a major, and frankly unwelcome, change. Does anyone have recent experience dealing with SeaRay (specifically in Fife) on C-Dory service issues?

Thanks in advance.
 
I was told the same thing by C-Dory to get a problem fixed that is under warranty......Go to your dealer ! I was surprised, but at the same time happy because my dealer Sportcraft is very good. I would be "hot" if I didn't have a great dealer to take it to
Big Dave. :shock:
 
I understand outside the Seattle area a dealer is your primary resource - and I'm sure there are some good ones out there. But for those who bought their boats from the factory, and have had them serviced there, this is a significant change.
 
I bought my boat from the Factory too, and I am just about to need the 100 hour service. Guess I'll take it to I 90 marine for that, since they worked on my old suzukis and did a great job. But the warranty stuff is being done by Sea Ray? Surprising!! :|

Sark
 
Thankfully, I don't have to worry about this problem, my question would be which boat would get serviced 1st? The C-Dory or the Sea Ray if both were brought in at the same time, is this a local Washington state only thing or it going to be Nationwide, and is Sea Ray going to be able to stock all the parts.
Years ago I sold new cars and the dealership service shop was always told to work on OUR customers cars first and anyone that had bought their car somewhere else and brought it in for warranty work, was automatically placed at the back of the list.
Hopefully things have improved a lot in the service field since that time.

Rich
 
The Lake Union and Fife SeaRay dealers are authorized C-Dory dealerships, it is a Washington thing, resulting from C-Dory getting out of factory sales. Jeff Messmer is aware I think that we will be watching - and communicating - on the service any of us receives from the SeaRay dealerships. I don't think Jeff will let them give C-Dory owners second class service...


fiddlersgreen6":2hx24qcu said:
Thankfully, I don't have to worry about this problem, my question would be which boat would get serviced 1st? The C-Dory or the Sea Ray if both were brought in at the same time, is this a local Washington state only thing or it going to be Nationwide, and is Sea Ray going to be able to stock all the parts.
Years ago I sold new cars and the dealership service shop was always told to work on OUR customers cars first and anyone that had bought their car somewhere else and brought it in for warranty work, was automatically placed at the back of the list.
Hopefully things have improved a lot in the service field since that time.

Rich
Click to expand...
 


Nation wide I do not see this as a "large" issue. ..... Maybe.

When "carefully selecting" dealerships to sell and service C-Dory boats, as I understand it, they attempted to select "smaller" dealerships....that do not depend on volume sales to stay in business.

This ...in theory "SHOULD" provide better individual service for us "unique" C-Dory boat owners....who DO DEPEND on whatever dealership to stand behind whatever brand boat we buy from them.

These dealerships might have to depend on "sub-contractors".... to "farm out" works that their individual employee staff are not capable of, or...someone doing "just that niche type work can do more efficiently or precise" :idea :idea .... no matter if it is fancy electronics not used on many of the non-pilot house "cruising" boats or boats generally sold in their markets, real good custom canvas works that FIT YOUR BOAT and individual user needs, touch up from shipping damage, or any thing else.

Sea Ray, like many other boat BUILDERS, have dealers all over America...and those dealers are what really makes or breaks the total quality of a boat.

Now, I realize this is a paradigm shift for our C-Dory family that has since day one been accustom to receiving "at the factory service" :unlove ...but, like most other BUILDERS of boats... those builders depend on their dealerships to keep them in business and their customers happy. :smiled

One thing for sure...is that when a C-Dory boat is shipped from the factory, it NEEDS TO BE RIGHT :thup , CHECKED :thup , INSPECTED :thup , and as many "systems" checked and known good PRIOR TO LEAVING THE FACTORY :thup .

If this happens...this will be what once again separates our C-Dory boats from other boat builders who just send stuff out to stay on production schedules :thdown :thdown :amgry ...and keep the numbers rolling.

Now with what "I" see as a shift in sales ratio from the standard CD22C to the larger boats...which are being shipped and sold cross-country... THIS GET IT RIGHT PRIOR TO LEAVING THE FACTORY is even more important to the lively hood of the folks who make a living at the factory. So, it "should be" self-policed.

Another thought...is just a simple fairness issue of the dealers who do handle C-Dory boats "near" the factory. Do not care how close they are...but, if you have to move the boat 100 miles away...there is a cost... and was it really fair to the "close to the factory" dealers to have to "compete" against the factory itself for a sale that does not have that cost...? Hummm Now... there is something interesting for the east coast guys who pay large bucks for just getting their C-Dory boats...instead of selling some other locally produced pilot house boat... what if all dealers were charged the same amount for shipping... for the similar size hulls.... and was actually the "true cost" from the factory to the dealerships with "free-shipping".. Wow...that almost sounded Democratic. I need to be careful. :mrgreen:

This may be a benefit for C-Dory boats of all types Nation wide...as to allow the folks at the factory to "F O C U S"..... and build the boat correct and COMPLETLY... prior to sending it out to the dealerships to the general public. Time will tell.

Now, Ya'll go hug yer local C-Dory Dealers... we all need each other!!!
:hug C-Dory :hug2

Byrdman...happy to be in his house and not traveling today.
 
I guess I had been talking to Jeff Messmer for some time about this factory sales / service issue. While we all love our boats and I know of nobody who was in the end ever let down by the factory, there was an undercurrent of dissatisfaction with factory service starting to show up in more and more threads here. It could be hard to get an appointment, it could take longer than perceived to be reasonable to get work done like warranty work, glass repair or engine service, there were some difficult issues with things like rub rails and water in boats that was difficult to track down, you know them all if you follow the site. I had suggested to Jeff probably a year ago that they needed to establish a dedicated service division, so the same folks who build and rig the boats (not sure, will all rigging now go to the dealerships as well? I suppose it would) are not pulled away from production to handle service issues. I have to believe that there would have been enough business to justify that. If they had not appointed Lake Union and Fife SeaRay as a dealerships, there would have been no dealer competition issue for either sales or service in the immediate vicinity of the factory (except possibly with EQ Marine in Cornet Bay, Les would have to speak to that). But in the end, it seems they decided factory sales and service were not their core mission. I cannot fault them for coming to that conclusion, because it seemed to me that they had come to a point where they EITHER had to establish their own dedicated sales & service division with personnel not involved in production OR get out of the sales and service end of things entirely. They chose the latter course - it was almost inevitable, the handwriting was on the wall as their sales grew and grew and grew (they were making just 6 boats a month in Kent when we bought our CD22). I understand their decision but I don't have to like it. I have always felt that the ability to get any problem resolved directly through the factory was one of the MAIN attractions to owning a C-Dory. We shall have to wait and see how it affects customer satisfaction I guess.
 
OK, I assume that this means there is no more Marbin Marine/ factory dealer. What happened to Scott Matthews? Did he go to Sea Ray? If so, which store?

Boris
 
To me this sounds like C-Dory is trying to get back to their core business: Building Boats. And great boats at that. Maybe the service issues of recent have lead to some problems on quality control. If not doing direct sales and service anymore means that the next C-Dory I buy is of outstanding quality with very few problems, then I say good for C-Dory for defining what they do.

I can't think of a single product where I even have the option of taking it back to the factory for work. My truck goes to the local dealer, my snowmobiles go to the local dealer, I have a repairman from an outside company repair my appliances. While I might call Ford, or Arctic Cat or Kitchen Aid for warranty service, they outsource all that work to a dealer or repair shop. It's just plain cheaper for them and allows them to focus on their core businesses. As long as the repairs are getting done correctly, I don't care. If there's still problems, I hope they will be there to continue to try to solve them with me. That's all I ask for.

Obviously being in Ohio I don't even have the option of taking the boat to C-Dory directly for work, but I think everyone will hopefully benefit from this change in terms of continued quality products.

Good for C-Dory.

Jack
 
Maybe the c-dory dealers see the factory as competition? In a way if you were a boat dealer in Seattle what insentive is there to cary a c-dory if people are going to take it to the factory for service?
 
My 2cents worth??

Here on the Right Coast, VA Beach; I have nothing but praise for the support I have received from Jeff and gang on the Left Coast; as well as all the folks here on this site.

When I ordered Sea Angel, I had it rigged here in Norfolk so I had someone I could stand toe-to-toe with to get something done. This has NOT been an issue. The people I have worked with at Cutter Marine and, locally, Norfolk Marine, have all been first class. I have had fiberglass, mechanical and electronic work done, and Sea Angel is still afloat and well. There are many craftsmen out there who are honest and do quality work. When you start out with a quality product it is so much easier to maintain and improve on its content.

Man, I love my Sea Angel!
 
Salty Dog makes a good point that maybe some of the quality control problems were due to pressures of repairs. But I argue IF C Dory had quality control--a person who really inspected that boat to be sure it was right--that these service issues would not occur in the first place. My fear is that the boat being built today is not the quality of boat which I owned which was built 14 years ago.

As far as back to the factory for service: One of the RV's manufacturer with the highest customer satisfaction is Allegro. The reason is that if you have a problem, you can bring the rig back to Red Bay Alabama, and the factory will fix it for you. Other quality RV manufacturers will do factory service. The cars and trucks have extensive factory trained dealerships and mechanics--this is not the case in C Dory. As Byrdman pointed out, many times these repairs have to be subcontracted out, since the dealer does not have the expertise to do the work.

If the people who are consistantly making the mistakes at the factory are not held responsiable for these mistakes they will continue to make them.
I found several other boats which had the same problems that my boat had, but the owners did not recognize that there was a potential problem.
Many owners are first time boat owners and don't know what will happen if you get water and small amounts of food under the edge of teak, into the open end grain of plywood. What happens is that the plywood swells, and the molds begin to grow, then the galley counter top begins to buckle and there is a sanitation problem etc....(just one example) The exact same mistake had been made in a C Dory25 and was made in my Tom Cat 255. Mine is properly fixed. It is going to cost someone a few hundred dollars to properly fix the other boats (and I don't know how many need to be fixed or if they will be fixed properly). If done correctly the first time--the company made XXX dollars more in profit--and the reputation is intact. It is simple good business practice to do things right--and if wrong to correct them properly.
 
I don't know much about technical stuff but I do know about service and professionalism. The two C-Dory dealers that I have dealt with, EQ Marine and Sportcraft Marine, are true professionals. I would buy a boat from them and have it serviced in their shops without hesitation. Just my two cents.
 
I agree with Pat that some change was inevitable as it was not possible to build boats at a rapid rate AND deal with all service issues (especially engine maintenance). However, I am a bit worried that the factory has quit all service including warranty issues.

My concerns are two-fold.

First without service being done at the factory on the hulls, receiving warranty service might be a bit more difficult. The factory was my dealer and the motivation for them to do repair is that it's their boat and their reputation on the line. The motivation for the SeaRay dealer to do repair on my boat (which I didn't purchase there) is that I might buy my next boat from them. Warranty repair at a dealer, probably has to be approved by someone at the factory for the dealer to be reimbursed. This could add extra time and when you're not looking at the customer, it's easier to determine that something is not a warranty issue. To be fair though, in my experience, the factory often not only fixed things that should be covered under warranty, but also would often do one or two extra things "while they were at it". The latter probably turned in-house service to a less that profitable business.

My second concern relates to the information flow between those performing the repairs and those building/designing the boats. My sense is that a lot of useful information for future design changes and/or QA/QC issues will be lost when all repairs are off site from the builders. The factory has learned a lot from both fixing problems and from seeing how others modify their boats. Much of the latter can be learned from this site, but IMHO there's no substitute for having close contact between builders/designers and the customers and people who are doing repair work.

Many companies do a very poor job of tracking service issues and hence recurring problems can occur. I hope that the factory and Jeff put into place an effective system for gathering, storing and looking at repair issues. To do so, isn't super complicated but it does require effort and villigance to maintain and to make effective use of such data. Right now, I'm guessing that management at the factory is struggling very hard just to keep their head above water managing the expansion of production. I hope they have enough bandwidth left over to keep service issues high on their priority lists regardless of who does the service.
 
rogerbum":3e0dz1aj said:
The factory was my dealer and the motivation for them to do repair is that it's their boat and their reputation on the line. The motivation for the SeaRay dealer to do repair on my boat (which I didn't purchase there) is that I might buy my next boat from them.
Click to expand...

This to me, is a pretty key point.

I'm not all that concerned about the factory having dealers handle service/repair/warranty issues. I'm in the camp that believes allowing them to focus on manufacturing, provides for a better initial product. Much as I like C-Dorys, I always believed a good dealer was a better option than buying directly from the factory.

However...I can certainly understand the feelings of C-Dory customers who purchased factory-direct boats. Were I in this situation, it would bother me that I couldn't take the boat back where I purchased it, where the dealer relationship was formed and the deal struck.

I've no idea if there's any room for compromise with the factory, but I'll suggest there should be. If a boat was purchased factory direct, they should provide warranty covered repairs at the factory, to the original purchaser, if the owner requests it. Basically, they should honor the position they took as a dealer when they sold the boat. One possible exception to this could be outboard warranty issues - these are relatively generic items, and getting warranty service performed at authorized dealers is not a big deal.

Once the hull warranty is up, or if the boat was purchased through a dealer, they should feel free to direct customers elsewhere.

Whether C-Dory thinks this is a good idea or not, we'll all be witness to how this decision plays out. The same rules apply to C-Dory dealers around this place, as they do to the factory. There are no restrictions on what members post, as long as things remain civil - something we've rarely had a problem with. Good dealers will continue to get praises here, and their businesses will be rewarded. Should C-Dory bring somebody on board that is not up to the standards we've come to expect from the factory, people will certainly write about it here.

While I'm confident C-Dory dealers were screened pretty well by the factory, if problems do arise, I'm sure the factory will step in as they always have. C-Dory certainly realizes that their dealers are an extension of the company, and anything that reflects negatively on C-Dory has historically been given quick attention.
 
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