NON
- Thread starter ORCA
- Start date
While I don't know alot about the area you will be exploring, I do know that the word "efficiency" and "jet-drive" are not compatable. Jet-drives are notorious for high fuel usage and poor economy. I think the only animals you have to worry about accidentally hitting are Manatees in the Southern USA.
Due to the high pressure levels and high fluid flow levels, even jet drives are not safe to be run around divers. Many C-Brats are divers using normal propellers on their outboards.
Your $30,000 US budget precludes some of the newest, most efficient outboards such as the new Honda 75/90 four strokes.
You should get alot of good advice here, soon. John
Due to the high pressure levels and high fluid flow levels, even jet drives are not safe to be run around divers. Many C-Brats are divers using normal propellers on their outboards.
Your $30,000 US budget precludes some of the newest, most efficient outboards such as the new Honda 75/90 four strokes.
You should get alot of good advice here, soon. John
yukonchris-
Welcome to the C-Brats and world of C-Dorys!
You've got quite an adventure planned! We'll look forward to following your travels.
Thanks for choosing a C-Dory as your boat. It's reputation is legendary, and you'll be making history in the tradition of River Horse.
The C-Dory 22 Cruiser is still the flagship of the C-Dory line, and is the best choice for such an agressive travel schedule.
I'm not personally familiar with either the Evinrude mid-size ETEC engines or the Dura Jet lower drive unit. Evinrude did have some cold-weather operational issues with the larger 90 hp motors, which are solved now, but you might check to see that their mid-sized motors are OK from that point of view.
The Dura Jet drive looks pretty rugged. If it's used by the U.S. military, that speaks volumes for it's reliability. Does it require more water depth than the more conventional jet drive units? Would this make any difference to you in your planned intenerary? Are there any fuel mileage figures available for the motor/drive combination? Jets are notoriously inefficient, loosing up to 25-30% of their efficiency to extra water friction. Is the drive unit field repairable or replaceable?
We certainly want to wish you well in your adventure. I'd personally enjoy every part of it, except for the mosquitoes! We'll all be following your progress here and then later on your travels! Good Luck!
Joe.
Welcome to the C-Brats and world of C-Dorys!
You've got quite an adventure planned! We'll look forward to following your travels.
Thanks for choosing a C-Dory as your boat. It's reputation is legendary, and you'll be making history in the tradition of River Horse.
The C-Dory 22 Cruiser is still the flagship of the C-Dory line, and is the best choice for such an agressive travel schedule.
I'm not personally familiar with either the Evinrude mid-size ETEC engines or the Dura Jet lower drive unit. Evinrude did have some cold-weather operational issues with the larger 90 hp motors, which are solved now, but you might check to see that their mid-sized motors are OK from that point of view.
The Dura Jet drive looks pretty rugged. If it's used by the U.S. military, that speaks volumes for it's reliability. Does it require more water depth than the more conventional jet drive units? Would this make any difference to you in your planned intenerary? Are there any fuel mileage figures available for the motor/drive combination? Jets are notoriously inefficient, loosing up to 25-30% of their efficiency to extra water friction. Is the drive unit field repairable or replaceable?
We certainly want to wish you well in your adventure. I'd personally enjoy every part of it, except for the mosquitoes! We'll all be following your progress here and then later on your travels! Good Luck!
Joe.
If this helps, I use twin 40hp yamaha's and average 4 to 4.5 miles per gallon...depending on conditions, speed and load.
I understand that Canada has diesel outboards...Yamaha's but I think they are limited to about 30hp
I am a commercial diver and props are not any problem...and you sure are not going to run over any wildlife in Canada....jet drives are miserable and really waste fuel.
Joel
SEA3PO
I understand that Canada has diesel outboards...Yamaha's but I think they are limited to about 30hp
I am a commercial diver and props are not any problem...and you sure are not going to run over any wildlife in Canada....jet drives are miserable and really waste fuel.
Joel
SEA3PO
If you can lay your hands on a copy of Lands Forlorn by George M. Douglas, published by G.P Putnam's Sons, 1914, New York and London, it has a wealth of information and photographs on some of the territory you would be traversing, including the Bear River.
Bring lots of bug dope.
Al
Bring lots of bug dope.
Al
lThis sounds like a very interesting expetition, thru remote areas. There will be many challanges.
I think that the only advantage that this dura jet drive has is that it will protect the rotor--(which is really like a prop, despite their disclaimer)--from rocks and will protect people/animals from the prop. (But I think that is a non issue) Gravel and weeds can still get into this rotor and cause problems. Are there any classified rapids on your route? Do you have river running experience in this type of boat (Dory's have been used in river running for a long time--but they are more traditional tombstone dories and are used under oars, not the semidory like the C Dory)
You will be facing some of the problems that River Horse faced--depending on the height of the rivers and conditions of the lakes. This would include sand and gravel bars, as very rough water. Maybe even portages.
To get a range of 650 miles on a 22 C Dory at anywhere planing speeds you will need at least 175 gallons of fuel. With the increase of fuel, you will need more hp to move the boat, plus you need gear and food for a prolonged time, so this is a catch 22--very difficult. With 60 hp and the load you will have to carry I doubt if you can get the boat up to 20 miles an hour--you will be mostly at the 10 to 15 miles an hour--a poorly effecient speed for a C Dory 22 and not planing--thus requiring more fuel.
Hopefully the 650 mile run is down river! A normal C Dory with 48 gallons is limited to about 200 miles range--depending on conditions and loading.
I suspect that you will do better at displacement speeds of 5 mph. Hopefully you can get by with only 100 gallons of fuel that way for the 650 mile range. If you are only going to go 5 mph, then consider only a 25 hp or two 15 hp motors. Your total distance is 4971 miles (approximately) over 7 months (if you can still travel in Oct because of the weatherf)--Lets say that you have 200 days to travel--which is being optimistic--and thus will have to travel 25 miles a day--or 5 hours a day at 5 miles an hour. (Going up river you may be facing currents of over 5 miles an hour) With two 15's or even two 25's you can go at least 10 mph if necessary. You have a back up motor and can run both if necessary. So twin lower hp engines are much better for your application.
I have rafted the Colorado River on J boats using 25 hp outboards--and although the props got dinged up, they were kept repaired and usable.--so props are an option....
Another option is to have a jet drive (replaces the lower unit for those places where there are shallow water) and a conventional lower unit for places where there is no danger to the prop from rocks. Changing over the units is a fairly simple mechanical operation.
We all wish you the best of luck and hopefully you will report back to the group as you progress.
I think that the only advantage that this dura jet drive has is that it will protect the rotor--(which is really like a prop, despite their disclaimer)--from rocks and will protect people/animals from the prop. (But I think that is a non issue) Gravel and weeds can still get into this rotor and cause problems. Are there any classified rapids on your route? Do you have river running experience in this type of boat (Dory's have been used in river running for a long time--but they are more traditional tombstone dories and are used under oars, not the semidory like the C Dory)
You will be facing some of the problems that River Horse faced--depending on the height of the rivers and conditions of the lakes. This would include sand and gravel bars, as very rough water. Maybe even portages.
To get a range of 650 miles on a 22 C Dory at anywhere planing speeds you will need at least 175 gallons of fuel. With the increase of fuel, you will need more hp to move the boat, plus you need gear and food for a prolonged time, so this is a catch 22--very difficult. With 60 hp and the load you will have to carry I doubt if you can get the boat up to 20 miles an hour--you will be mostly at the 10 to 15 miles an hour--a poorly effecient speed for a C Dory 22 and not planing--thus requiring more fuel.
Hopefully the 650 mile run is down river! A normal C Dory with 48 gallons is limited to about 200 miles range--depending on conditions and loading.
I suspect that you will do better at displacement speeds of 5 mph. Hopefully you can get by with only 100 gallons of fuel that way for the 650 mile range. If you are only going to go 5 mph, then consider only a 25 hp or two 15 hp motors. Your total distance is 4971 miles (approximately) over 7 months (if you can still travel in Oct because of the weatherf)--Lets say that you have 200 days to travel--which is being optimistic--and thus will have to travel 25 miles a day--or 5 hours a day at 5 miles an hour. (Going up river you may be facing currents of over 5 miles an hour) With two 15's or even two 25's you can go at least 10 mph if necessary. You have a back up motor and can run both if necessary. So twin lower hp engines are much better for your application.
I have rafted the Colorado River on J boats using 25 hp outboards--and although the props got dinged up, they were kept repaired and usable.--so props are an option....
Another option is to have a jet drive (replaces the lower unit for those places where there are shallow water) and a conventional lower unit for places where there is no danger to the prop from rocks. Changing over the units is a fairly simple mechanical operation.
We all wish you the best of luck and hopefully you will report back to the group as you progress.
You might consider a normal propped outboard with an aluminum or stainless steel "rock guard". That is a kind of metal 'leg' that extends below the prop and kicks the motor up if a rock is encountered.
My experience with jet drives is that they are susceptible to damage from gravel, sand, small rocks, grass, seaweed, fishing line, small cords, etc. while running in about 2 foot to 3 foot depths. Most manufacturers advise not using them in shallow sandy, gravelled areas since the impellers are rapidly abraided.
you might try rigging a "sculling" oar off the transom for downstream work without using the outboard. Someone described that recently on this site.
While this may sound crazy.... you could try two, used, 16 foot C-Dories. Each would be easy to operate in extremely shallow water. Combined, they'd be a bit less weight than a 22 footer, I think. And you could split the two 25-40hp outboards between the two. One could tow the other. Both could be 'sculled' a bit, especially downstream. You could raft them on calm runs, or two alongside. You'd have private bunks! And, you could probably buy two of them for closer to $30,000 than a 22 footer.
Just a thought, John
My experience with jet drives is that they are susceptible to damage from gravel, sand, small rocks, grass, seaweed, fishing line, small cords, etc. while running in about 2 foot to 3 foot depths. Most manufacturers advise not using them in shallow sandy, gravelled areas since the impellers are rapidly abraided.
you might try rigging a "sculling" oar off the transom for downstream work without using the outboard. Someone described that recently on this site.
While this may sound crazy.... you could try two, used, 16 foot C-Dories. Each would be easy to operate in extremely shallow water. Combined, they'd be a bit less weight than a 22 footer, I think. And you could split the two 25-40hp outboards between the two. One could tow the other. Both could be 'sculled' a bit, especially downstream. You could raft them on calm runs, or two alongside. You'd have private bunks! And, you could probably buy two of them for closer to $30,000 than a 22 footer.
Just a thought, John
Hmm. Very interesting sounding adventure. I used to work for the U.S. Geological Survey, Water Resources (hydrology) out of Fairbanks, Alaska. I spent a good deal of time on northern rivers from the Alaska Range, north to the Beufort Sea and west to the Bering Sea. We used a variety of boat and motor configurations. We sometimes used props on larger, deeper rivers and almost always jets on shallower waters. I can't even use the word efficiency in the same sentence as. Well, jet. Other than on larger rivers like the Yukon or on lakes, it is extremely unsusual to see a fiberglass boat on northern inland waters. The vast majority are aluminum. A fair number of Carolina Skiffs are the exception on the Yukon etc. There are a lot of flat bottom river boats as well as a variety of v-hull configurations most of which rely on higher speed and fuel consumption. I have seen some interesting flat bottom boats with cabin set ups that look pretty functional. For downriver cruising, a kicker may be plenty to provide steerage and fuel conservation. Fuel barrels can be flown in to remote sites via a Beaver. Ditto too on the possibilities for the CD16. I haven't been on any of the intended rivers, but memories of a past documentary I saw on a canoe journey nags we to think that there were rocks and rapids present on parts of the Mackenzie???
chris wie gehts it might be hard to find a c-22 without a motor although some do come from time to time I bought mine with a 50 honda on it and repowered with a suzuki 90 most of the c-22 have twin40/50 or single 75/90 most of the newer boats have 4stroke or the new e-tecs .you might have to buy the 90 and repower down with two 25or so ?? good luck in your quest .My duck is for sale check it out in naples fl.
Ron on Meander
New member
Sounds like a amazing trip.
A few points about things you may or may not know.
All of the Rivers and lakes that you will be traveling are waters that are navigated by tugs and barges and on the Mackenzie, even some small cruise ships. I doubt you'll have need for a jet boat in order to navigate on most of these waters unless you get outside the chanels and meet a sandbar or reef.
Your start date of April sounds awfully optimistic to me. I grew up in central BC and the ice didn't leave the lakes until late April and sometime early May. And you are starting your trip 500 miles north of that area. From what I understand the Mackenzie River is only navigatable June to October. Who knows, maybe global warming will give you an early start.
As far a fuel goes, you might consider a Turtle Pac collapsable tank. Just roll it up when you have it empty.
You might want to check out the Idlewilde Expedition. They followed some of the same waterways you'll be travelling.
Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress.
Ron
A few points about things you may or may not know.
All of the Rivers and lakes that you will be traveling are waters that are navigated by tugs and barges and on the Mackenzie, even some small cruise ships. I doubt you'll have need for a jet boat in order to navigate on most of these waters unless you get outside the chanels and meet a sandbar or reef.
Your start date of April sounds awfully optimistic to me. I grew up in central BC and the ice didn't leave the lakes until late April and sometime early May. And you are starting your trip 500 miles north of that area. From what I understand the Mackenzie River is only navigatable June to October. Who knows, maybe global warming will give you an early start.
As far a fuel goes, you might consider a Turtle Pac collapsable tank. Just roll it up when you have it empty.
You might want to check out the Idlewilde Expedition. They followed some of the same waterways you'll be travelling.
Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress.
Ron
Ron on Meander
New member
"No tug's on the great bear lake, no tug's on the slave river class 6 rapids!"
I missed that little part about heading up the Slave!
I though the direct downstream from For Mac to Tuk was a expedition enough 
The river opening up in April is a lot earlier than I thought. Certainly has changed. What about the lakes?
Thanks for the link to your site. You certainly have spent a bit of time on the northern rivers. Good on ya! :cigar
Ron
I missed that little part about heading up the Slave!
I though the direct downstream from For Mac to Tuk was a expedition enough The river opening up in April is a lot earlier than I thought. Certainly has changed. What about the lakes?
Thanks for the link to your site. You certainly have spent a bit of time on the northern rivers. Good on ya! :cigar
Ron
Cutty Sark
New member
Let me get this straight. You are taking a CDory through class 6 rapids? :shock: Wow! adventurer you are. I've been through some heavy water in a big pontoon inflatable ( class 4-5) up in alaska but can't even imagine it in a Cdory. Am I mistaken?
Sounds like an incredible adventure though.
Sark
Sounds like an incredible adventure though.
Sark
Cutty Sark
New member
I knew I must have misunderstood. But you never know, people try some crazy stunts these days. All I could picture was shards of fiberglass everywhere. Sounds like a hell of a trip. Keep us informed and good luck finding a good Cdory for your adventure.
Sark
Sark
