Not Your Average Motor Questions

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barefoot

New member
I asked for offers on my 16 because I never use it. It dawned on me that I never use it because of that honking great 50 HP Merc towering over the transom. I'm a sailor, slow and quiet, looking into the shoreline woods and have no use for bellowing and banging along with the spray flying. Some may remember that I once considered two 20s, almost never both at once.

Q 1: Anyone care to estimate what power a lightly loaded 16 Cruiser would need for hull speed (6-7 kt?) at less than full throttle, sometimes in wind to 15-20 kt, virtually no current or waves? 5, 8, 9.9, 15, 20, 25?

Q2: Anyone have that motor to sell? I'm in east Florida

Q3: Anyone want a mint 2006 Mercury 50 4-stroke, cheap?
 
Disclaimer, I am not an expert here, all I know is what Dusty has told us all! You can get hull speed on a CD25 with a 9.9 hp, so you can rule out all of the larger engines for a CD16. I would think a 6 hp would be fine for a CD16, a lot of folks use 8 hp for their kicker on the CD22s. But I assume the science guys will chime in here with their formulae (1.34 time the square root of the waterline length to determine hull speed, hp per lb of boat weight, etc.)


barefoot":3e1njioy said:
I asked for offers on my 16 because I never use it. It dawned on me that I never use it because of that honking great 50 HP Merc towering over the transom. I'm a sailor, slow and quiet, looking into the shoreline woods and have no use for bellowing and banging along with the spray flying. Some may remember that I once considered two 20s, almost never both at once.

Q 1: Anyone care to estimate what power a lightly loaded 16 Cruiser would need for hull speed (6-7 kt?) at less than full throttle, sometimes in wind to 15-20 kt, virtually no current or waves? 5, 8, 9.9, 15, 20, 25?

Q2: Anyone have that motor to sell? I'm in east Florida

Q3: Anyone want a mint 2006 Mercury 50 4-stroke, cheap?
Click to expand...
 
Plenty of trailerable sailboats up to 3000 pounds get by with 8 hp or less to move the boat to hull speed. We have a 1500 pound SunCat catboat that will do 5-6 knots with a 4 hp.

I am a sailor boy right down to the bone, Barefoot. Wind in my face, feel the pull in the sails, trim that sheet, sailing kinda guy. And I gotta tell you, I love our C-Dory. That big ol' Honda out back lets me take this boat anywhere I want to go... no tacking, not much concern about the breeze. We have found that we spend as much time at 6-7 knots (where you can barely hear the motor, though that may be a factor of the 25 vs the 16) as we do at mid-teen cruise speeds. We rarely run it over 20 knots.

I had some concerns early on... it made more noise, didn't turn when the throttle was off, and there was no way to kick my feet up in the cockpit while making way. It took me a couple hours (get it, :wink: more than an hour and a half) to understand the nature of this boat. Now, I love the sound of that quiet Honda, I keep some throttle on when turning, and we have some comfortable chairs in the cockpit. And when I want to make some time (to get to the neat gunkholing places), I can push the throttle forward and flat get there. Still, most of the time, we are still in that sailing mode of enjoying the journey.

And if you only want to do 5 knots, pull back the throttle. Heck, we come down our canal at about 3 knots most of the time... neighbors are always commenting about "how quiet that boat is." Yesterday, one neighbor said, "It looks like you are just floating along; I can't even hear your motor." And it was quiet enough that I could hear him say that from the seawall of the canal.

So, you have the boat and motor... and the sailing attitude (and I certainly mean that in a nice way). You can change out the motor (which will cost you some bucks) or change the attitude (which is free).

I've never been out on the water in a 16, so I have no hands-on point of reference, but the folks on this forum seem to covet that boat. Maybe some more time out playing with the boat will give you a different perspective? One thing for sure on our boat: that big Honda is quieter from the helm station than the motor was on the sailboat. We used that motor to get in and out of our canal and marinas. Sometimes when the wind was too light. Sometimes when poking around in skinny water. But it wasn't the best part of the sailing experience. And then a little catboat helped me to realize that I just LOVE being out on the water... motor, sail, big, little... doesn't matter, I just love it all. Give it a shot... see how quiet you can make that motor; put some Jimmy Buffett on the boombox; poke into some shallow bays, turn off the motor, and kick back. And when the afternoon rains come up, you can be underway and dry.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. :smiled

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Barefoot,

I'm with Jim on this one.

I spent all of my life in sail, including two years on an extended cruise and one Fl to Caracas trip. We sold our Jeanneau Tonic a year before we bought Valkyrie, for a number of reasons.

With the C-Dory we are no longer constrained by draft in both cruising and launching, and we don't have to take HOURS to rig the boat.

About the noise factor, yes, our Honda 90 is louder than a sailboat under sail, but is MUCH quieter than havng a Honda 8 in a well in the cockpit with us, as we did on Spirit, our Jeanneau Also, any outboard on a sailboat typicallly is being pushed for hull speed, while a larger, four stroke outboard is loafing a C-Dory. Usually, the C-Dory will be quieter.

Like JIm and Joan, we rarely push our boat fast and prefer cruising at about 12 knots or less, which is very quiet. I have not run your engine, but can't imagine that it is a screamer at under ten.

Don't get me wrong, I love sail and will always consider myself a sailor and when the wind picks up over 20 and the seas are climbing to six feet, I would often rather be out there on a double-reefed sailboat having fun.

A large number of C-Brats came from sail or still have sailboats. GIve the boat a chance; the transition is easy. The boat and engine you have should do what you have described.

Oh yeah, some of our sailing buddies have been on board and thoroughly enjoyed themselves. As one put it, "This is great, nice and quiet, I guess maybe you didn't go over the the 'dark side' after all!"

Best regards,

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
You might also consider getting a Saltwater capable Electric tolling motor. While it won't likely get you to hull speed (unless it was 36 volts and over 100 lbs thrust) it will be nearly dead quiet and give you much of what you are asking for. Then use the big motor when you need it.

Of course a Yamaha T8 High Thrust would likely push that boat just fine and give you electric tilt/start capabilities.
 
I've got a 4hp merc 2 stroke on my 22 and it pushes it 4-5 mph. It would probably push it faster but the prop is beat up because it spends part of it's life on a canoe in rocky rivers. It works so well at churning through gravel that I'm considering using it as a rototiller.
 
Valkyrie":2l40tear said:
About the noise factor, yes, our Honda 90 is louder than a sailboat under sail, but is MUCH quieter than havng a Honda 8 in a well in the cockpit with us,
Nick"Valkyrie"
Click to expand...

Barefoot,
When we had our 16' Cruiser we had both a Honda 50 and a Honda 8 kicker. (Both of them were 4 strokes). The Honda 8 was louder than the "50" and therefore not as pleasant to the ear. About the only time we used the "8" was when we were in an area that severely restricted our speed for an extended period of time and it became a good excuse to put a few hours on the "8" and fewer hours on the "50". (That being said, if you choose to move down to just an 8 HP it will probably do what you want it to do, but perhaps will not be as quiet). Personally, I'd keep the "50" and just throttle down and enjoy it........but I realize everyone's desires are different, so by all means do what you think will make you happy. :lol:

Just don't sell the C-Dory! :wink
 
Barefoot,
Not such an odd thought! I installed a Honda 75 and a Honda 8 on my 22 Classic back in 2001. At the time I agonized between the Honda 75 and the Honda 50 for the main motor. I'm not a speed demon and I may have made a mistake. The 50 is a lot lighter than the 75/90 and would have probably only been problematic with really heavy loads. If you go with an 8 or a 9.9 ( I seem to recall Yamaha had a popular model several years ago) you could sneak on all the lakes with a 10 HP limit.

I think one of the bigger problems with larger motors at slower speeds is limited battery charging, but that's just a guess.

Good luck!

Mike
 
I wonder if something like a wind block on the front of a trailer mounted in front of the engine to send the sound back instead of into the cabin might not help.
 
Jeff-

We had a thread on sound blocking a few months ago, and although a lot of ideas were discussed, some experimentation by Do On Dory Dan, or DogonDan, it was discovered that a lot, if not most, of the sound was being transmitted through the transom to the hull, which acted as a sounding board.

HERE'S the thread about motor noise, which started out about Suzuki motors being loud.

Joe.
 
Like Mr. Einstein said,,,, it's all relative (a little nerd humor). Mechanical movement of a boat is defined by the "work" performed by the method of locomotion or simply put, Work=Force x Distance. Now with boats that is not quite as straight forward... you have to factor in the % efficiency of the force applied to move the thing. I have been told boats are not very efficient in in the transfer of power to movement... just look at the mph you get with your power boat minus the use of oars for locomotion... people power does not count.
The other thing ya have to take into affect is ya gotta get the boat moving and once that is done you have to deal with momentum or simply stated Mass x Velocity... you have to be able to adequately control it once you get her moving...

me personally I like a slow ride with the capability to control the vessel in tight places and or in adverse conditions.

Nice thread to read! Butch
 
Jeff-

Here's a look at a sound deadening and motor hiding transom in Mini Swan's Other Cool Boats Album that is a sailboat converted into a mini-trawler with a lot of inventive ideas:

P1010016.sized.jpgP1010014.sized.jpg

There are a lot of cool boats in the photos, well worth a look.

Here's one of my favorites, a home designed and built sternwheeler push boat:

DSC_0249.jpg

Joe.
 

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I'd like to nominate Jim (Wild Blue) as the official spokesman for us ex-sailors that have succumbed to powerboats! Jim, you have captured the essence of a sailor and obviously have experienced the zen of sailing. Sailing is a sport, powerboating is well, a means to float and get somewhere. Like you, I find anything to do with water and boating is enjoyable. I've had 7 sailboats and 8 power, good memories from all. My CD25 is extremely enjoyable to run and to stay in a few nights or even weeks. My sailboats (all trailerable) had their qualities as well -- although a little less comfortable for overnighting.

Like you said, it's a great way to relax and relate to your family and friends. Thanks for expressing this all so eloquently!
 
I am also a sailor--many more miles under sail than I will ever see in a power boat. To get hull speed you will only need 5 to 6 hp--and that will be in the 5 knot range. I use a 43 lb thrust salt water trolling motor on a 12 foot skiff--and get 3 to 4 knots max (Golf Cart batteries). 3.5 hp gives 5 to 7 knots. I pushed 25 to 27 foot sailboats with as little as 5 hp to 5 to 6 knots. We pushed our Force 50--waterline about 46 feet, weight 60,000 lbs 2.5 knots with a 4.5 hp engine. A 25 hp outboard got us up to 5 knots.

I haven't tried the 3.5 on the Tom Cat, but suspect that it will do 3 to 4.

Find the quietest motor that will give some reserve. I would personally go with a 15 hp Honda electric start--it will give a fair turn of speed if you need it, and always have power to spare for wind and waves which tend to slow the boat down.
 
As usual, many varied, interesing, useful, even funny responses. As always, my hat's off to you all / y'all.

It seems 5-8 HP would be ample, and I noticed the 9.9 Mercury (the same nearby dealer) is the same engine, with remote, electric start, etc, and that should allow enough margin for heavier wind. It uses the current control$ and comes in Bigfoot: low gear, big prop, more grunt, easier docking, still plenty of speed for all but planing.

Anyone want a near-mint Merc 50 at a big discount?
 
Not to spend other people's money freely, but you'll lose way more trading in that engine after a year than the cost of a new 6hp. And then if you DO decide to sell the boat, the next owner is going to factor in the cost of a completely new engine (and rigging and guages if not a Merc fan) and deduct that.
My suggestion, value wise, is add a kicker. The boat will maintain its value as a fully rigged 16 and you'll get the peace and quiet you so rightfully deserve. We're selling 6HP Suzukis for about $1,500 these days, and you might get a left over for less, especially this time of year. If the whole she-bang-a-bang doesn't workout, you're (maybe) out the depreciation of a 6hp if you have to sell. A stock boat will always sell faster than a custom deal.
Just a thought...
Good luck!
John
 
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