Ocean going (Tuna) advice

Wood Zeppelin

New member
I've been boating for a long time, but in small boats (~16'). I'm planning to move up to a 22'. I'm interested in going out the in the ocean, but have no experience other than being on a Westport Salmon charter. I'm interested in going out for Tuna which is 50-100 miles out!

Can a 22' do that? Weather dependent?

If that's too far, what is a 22' capable of?

What's the first thing a newbie should know/do to prepare for going out in the ocean?
 
Yes, you can go for Tuna in a 22. I have fished Tuna commercially and have about 5 years of west coast experience and I’m hesitant to go in my 25. Weather knowledge and boat handling skills, combine with safety and navigation knowledge and equipment are key. This is all before you learn about ocean temperatures, spotting signs of tuna and actually learning how to catch them. I’d like to go with some friends and charters a few times first but having two young kids makes it tough. Off California may be the easiest safest but I’m on Vancouver Island and the weather can change quickly. If you are determined and get a 22 find the c-brats and c-dory owners who do and others on Facebook and bloody decks and plan to travel with them.
 
The 22 c-dory isn't the best boat for offshore west coast albacore fishing. The fishing grounds are a long ways out, and if conditions go south, it would pound you to death coming back in. Not to mention fuel capacity is an issue in a 22 going 100 miles offshore. It's been done, but you'd be better off in a heavier deeper V hull.

I have a friend that fishes Westport for Tuna. He runs a 26' SeaSport with a volvo diesel. That is a much more appropriate boat for this type of fishing IMO
 
"Can a 22' do that? Weather dependent?

If that's too far, what is a 22' capable of?

What's the first thing a newbie should know/do to prepare for going out in the ocean?"

YES and YES

Yes and More than you will want to take

Think Safety and have a Buddy Boat. Well at least for that kind of ocean.

And I agree, the 22 is probably not the best boat for 100 mile off shore tripping.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

9_Sept_Seq_2019_Cal.thumb.jpg
 
The 22 does not have a self bailing cockpit. I would consider this essential for 'offshore" work.

Second is range--if you are serious about going 100 miles out--that will be in the vicinity of 5 hours out and back--10 hours of travel. Then how much fuel would you use when on the grounds? How about if you run into foul weather and you are pounding into it (most of the time breezes blow toward or up and down the coast, but there. are exceptions...

Rule of thumb is 1/3 of fuel out, 1/3 back, and 1/3 reserve.
 
I’ve had 3 trips out for albacore before I bought my 19. Once out 17 miles with a meathead local in a 22’ boat, never again, he was a complete idiot. He talked big but had no idea what he was doing & he had to stop another boat to ask how to get home!!! Once with experienced fishermen in a 19’ boat,40 miles out, very big swells & large ship traffic but ok & doable. Third time,60 miles out with a hotdogger in a nice 22’, concerning with lots of heavy fog banks & no radar!! All 3 boats were deep v. I Bought & rigged my 19 dreaming of albacore but ultimately reconsidered going out there in a flat bottom. There are many, many things that could go wrong out there & I ultimately reconsidered that madness. Far quicker, safer, cheaper & easier to buy tuna off a commercial boat and not put ones person & boat in jeopardy.
 
Easier and cheaper is not the point of any of my fishing and smoking! Tuna is in the cards some day did Island Magic, but lots of fish to catch before it happens.
 
PaulNBriannaLynn":bgn2s3n2 said:
It's been done, but you'd be better off in a heavier deeper V hull.

Gotcha - so then do the hulls of the "ventures" and "Pro-Angler" model (shallow V, not Deep) buy you much when it comes to cutting through heavy seas at speed? Or are they just not anywhere close to the deeper V boats?
 
I don't normally poo-poo somebody's ideas, but this sounds like a bad one to me in all honesty. If I were considering doing something along the lines of what you are proposing with a trailable boat, I would want something with a deep v around 26-30 or so feet, capable of a 30kt cruise, and a 300 mile range. And even then, you will still have to carefully pick your days. 50-100 miles out is really far to run in a boat (like the 22) that isn't fast, doesn't hold that much gas, and can beat the crap out of you when it's rough. I know everyone on here says just go slower and it will be fine, and a lot of times they are right, but there are times where you cannot do that. I am always impressed with what the 22 will do and how much punishment it will take, but I don't think it is the right boat for what you are proposing - so many better choices.
 
My thoughts on this. First, honestly answer these questions, to yourself:

How much do you know about your boat and power source and have you
performed prior diligent inspection of each?
On the water, are you able to remedy problems with either should you need to?

How are your weather analysis/prediction skills?
What do you do if the weather varies suddenly from the predicted (local variation)?

Do you have communication ability beyond VHF range?

What would you place in your ditch bag?

Just first thoughts.

Aye.
 
One of my co-workers has a tuna boat out of Depoe Bay, OR. IIRC it's a 36' Bertram with twin diesels. Deep V, enough speed to "find" the tuna, enough range to "search" for the tuna and get home and 36 feet of offshore, blue water design.

The ocean is nothing to screw with...
 
Thank you everyone for your great advice! I've come to the conclusion that I won't be doing Tuna, at least not on my own.

My question has evolved to two more questions:

(a) How much difference do C-dory "Venture" (and pro-angler - see photo in previous message) hulls make over flat ones?


(b) Salmon are not very far offshore.. What about going out a short run for Salmon in a CD22?
 
I've never went offshore for tuna but have taken a few 30 mile trips for halibut. Sometimes I can't even keep up with the charters. I've arrived at the spot only to see the deep v's leaving with their limits. A couple of the trips were 3 hours of hell getting there, catch a couple of halies and then 3 more hours of hell back. Our boats aren't made for wind chop on an ocean swell.

That said, a nice Whaler was fueling up today at the fuel docks while I was. After 3 days fishing he bought 127 gallons(2-300 hp mercs). After 4 days of fishing going out 20 plus miles each day I bought 76 gallons. Honda fuel flow gauges said I used 68.2 while traveling 224 miles. The kicker uses on average around 2 gallons per day.The Whaler captain said it takes him 1 gallon to go one mile. I usually get a little over 3 miles to a gallon on the ocean.
 
Wood Zeppelin":3dfzbnox said:
Thank you everyone for your great advice! I've come to the conclusion that I won't be doing Tuna, at least not on my own.

My question has evolved to two more questions:

(a) How much difference do C-dory "Venture" (and pro-angler - see photo in previous message) hulls make over flat ones?


(b) Salmon are not very far offshore.. What about going out a short run for Salmon in a CD22?


I've never ridden in a pro-angler II but looking at the hull shape and design, I'd imagine it would be a bit smoother and faster. I don't know how much fuel they hold but overall the hull is a better design for offshore trips. The c-dory has a unique ride, and the venture is more similar to the traditional c-dory design than it is different. It handles very similarly, especially compared to other boats. Look at the Steigercraft, Seasport, Parker, Radon, Skagit Orca, that sortof boat for what you want to do. If it was me, I'd just enjoy my economical c-dory and take a charter for albacore when you're wanting to go out that far. Youll save thousands and have the best of both worlds!
 
"A couple of the trips were 3 hours of hell getting there, catch a couple of halies and then 3 more hours of hell back. Our boats aren't made for wind chop on an ocean swell."

I hear that! I remember a nice fair weather day at Cape Resurrection (Seward) that while traveling what I thought was forwards a couple miles per hour in 6-8 feet of wind/tide driven close interval chop and getting my butt kicked, that I was actually not making any progress at all and actually losing ground going around the Cape to safety. I finally just throttled up, beat the living hell out of what was left of my internal organs while hoping the CD22 didn't break apart and got through it. It was terrible and I'm glad it was only a couple of miles. I learned regardless of the forecast one should avoid those bold capes with an outgoing tide and even moderate winds.

The only reason I share is sometimes you just can't go slower, and when playing in the real ocean there are no nice quiet bays to wait things out. I can't imagine having to deal with really bad conditions in a CD 22 for 50-100 miles. The deep V boats do so much better in these conditions and can travel at far greater speeds with less fatigue and more comfort. However, if the boat is of trailable size, you're going to have to pick you days very carefully because they have their limits too.
 
I've done a bunch of tuna trips in my Tomcat but never went in my my 22. There are a number of considerations:
fuel capacity/range/distance to the tuna, ice capacity, wind/waves, and experience/judgement of the skipper. I'll discuss each turn.

1) The primary limitation on the 22 is fuel. My (older 22) had only 40 gals of fuel, while the new ones hold 50. Depending on port and time of season, recreational caught tuna can be anywhere from 20 to 80 miles offshore. Early in the season the tuna tend to be farther out and, of course it varies from year-to-year. On the WA coast, tuna can be accessed from Neah Bay, La Push, Westport or Ilwaco. For the two northernmost ports, a typical late season run might be 45-50 miles out. For the two southernmost ports - 35 miles out is typical. These are average distances in mid Aug- Sept. Some years, they are rarely this close and some years they are closer.

If we assume 35 miles out and 35 miles back + 6-8 hours of trolling at 6MPH, the round trip is 35+35+(36 to 48) = 106-118 miles. In a 22, a good rule of thumb for safety sake is to assume 3MPG. With 50 gals of fuel, that's a total of 150 miles, and using the 1/3 out and 1/3 back + 1/3 in reserve, that would allow a 100 mile round trip with 1/3 left in reserve. So from a fuel capacity perspective, the 22 is marginal. However, it can be done - either by trolling for a little less time or by carrying an extra 5-10 gals of fuel in jerry cans. Note that transferring fuel in jerry cans on rough seas can be a challenge.

Another important consideration is how the fuel is plumbed - especially if you have twins. Sometimes twins are plumbed so that each engine draws off its own tank. When plumbed that way, if one engine fails, you may not have access to half your fuel. So in such a case, your reserve fuel is cut in half AND you typically cannot get on plane on a single engine. So now your return trip is either REALLY long (at hull speed) OR very fuel inefficient (at 10-12kts pushing a big bow wake) and then fuel capacity can become a huge issue.

2) Ice - to treat your fish well, it's important to ice them down in a slurry of salt water and ice first and transfer them to ice after about an hour. Tuna are warm blooded and come in at a temp about 25F above water temperature after a good fight. So figure about 10lbs of ice/fish. A reasonable trip would be 10 fish (some people catch many more, some fewer) so figure on at least 100# of ice in either kill bags or 120-150qt coolers. That's doable but the boat will be heavily loaded, especially if you take extra fuel. I'd limit my trip to no more than 3 total crew on board (including the skipper). One to drive, one to reel and one to net/gaff.

3) The 22 is a very capable boat but you can beat the hell out of yourself and the crew in anything but fairly smooth seas. For such long distances, you need fairly smooth seas in order to get out to the fish in 2-3 hours or less. Those days do happen but they are not common occurrences so you need to be able to adjust your schedule to go out when those days come around. Forecasting is pretty good these days so if there are 3 smooth days predicted in a row you can ALMOST count on the middle day being smooth (but of course there are exceptions). A 22 will really limit the number of days that are suitable - maybe to just a few a year.

4) Experience/judgement of the skipper is another key limitation. Usually, the people asking these questions have pretty limited experience in the ocean and that appears to be the case with you. With the right experience, on the right day, a tuna trip on a 22 C-Dory is very doable. Without the right experience, it's ill advised. Experience teaches you a lot that cannot be easily conveyed over the internet. With experience, you will have crossed the Ilwaco or Westport bar dozens of times and you'll have a good mental image of what the bar looks like for a given set of stated conditions. You'll also learn how quickly it can change and learn to be able to predict roughly what it will look like as the currents change over the day. By going across in less than perfect conditions (not BAD conditions) you'll learn how the boat handles in waves and you'll learn how to ride the back side of a wave in and what happens when you go over the top to quickly and stuff the bow into the next wave. It's best to learn these in conditions that are not perfect but not BAD. That way you are better prepared for when the conditions are a bit worse.

With experience, you'll learn about how much wind waves you can handle and how much swell you can handle at a given period. You'll probably be surprised to learn that a CD-22 can handle VERY large swells as long as they are widely spaced. I had my 22 in 8-10 swells when the period was 20s and it was entirely safe (sea sickness inducing but safe). With experience you'll learn where the crab pots are thick and to avoid these areas in seas that make it hard to spot them. With experience, you'll learn how weight distribution effects the handling and how important it is to strap down heavy objects (like large coolers filled with ice and fish) to prevent sudden changes in weight distribution. Etc. etc. etc. In sum, there's a lot you learn by experience much of which involves being able to correlate reported conditions with a mental image of what the seas are doing.

So in sum, it's doable, but only on the right days and with the right experience. There are better boats for tuna trips.
 
Wood Zeppelin":3fc97rs1 said:
(b) Salmon are not very far offshore.. What about going out a short run for Salmon in a CD22?

The CD22 is a great boat to fish out of. We have a 23 Venture and regularly fish 15 NM offshore out of Newport, Oregon for Salmon. Watch the weather and look for good seas. Days with short swell and long periods with wind waves under 2 ft. are the best. I have a friend with a CD22 and he does well out of Newport, Oregon. Gary.
 
DayBreak":21mhqnuw said:
Wood Zeppelin":21mhqnuw said:
(b) Salmon are not very far offshore.. What about going out a short run for Salmon in a CD22?

The CD22 is a great boat to fish out of. We have a 23 Venture and regularly fish 15 NM offshore out of Newport, Oregon for Salmon. Watch the weather and look for good seas. Days with short swell and long periods with wind waves under 2 ft. are the best. I have a friend with a CD22 and he does well out of Newport, Oregon. Gary.
Agreed. When I had my 22, I regularly fished for salmon at Swiftsure bank (20 miles out of Neah Bay) and I have also fished Blue Dot a few times (about 35 miles out). Near shore fishing for salmon is no problem but again, one needs to pick their days and areas.
 
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