Offer accepted....any red flags.

“My previous boat was a 22’ C-Dory. I will happily tell you that the BARTENDER does NOT have the same function characteristics as the C-Dory.
I fish at Neah Bay, Washington. The BARTENDER doesn't rattle your teeth in the smallest chop, nor the largest, and it doesn't have a tendency to slide sideways down the face of a large swell (scary and dangerous). My BARTENDER isn't the fastest out of the harbor but once in the nasties, I'm passing everything in sight and my ride is like a rocking horse and just as smooth.”
Gordon Zumach – 26’ BARTENDER
Port Angeles, WA

I noticed this quote on the Bartenderboat site. Any comments from the folks that fish Neah bay with a 22 ?

Tom
 
Hey I saw that boat at Jones Island last weekend. It was on a bouy with the window shades on. Very nice looking boat. I pointed it out to Susan as we were docking. I would love to see more of the inside. Will you bring it to a gathering some time just so we can drool?
 
That Timber Coast looks like a pretty cool toy, and I like the Nancy's China DC design as well. The electric motor in the rudder is an interesting idea, but I could see some problems with it as well.

But getting back to the thread topic, that 27 Devlin is a very nice looking boat, but looking down the road a bit, resale value and marketability are kind of questionable. Two reasons: wood construction and that Hurth Vee drive. I know, I know, wood is a great building material and can last for years, and v-drive transmissions are unfairly maligned, but market perceptions become their own reality.

People don't like to own wood boats. They like for OTHER people to own wood boats, so we can all look at them, but they don't like to actually be that person.

People don't like v-drive transmissions. They just don't, and you can't change their minds.

People don't like boats that have been in the charter service. I think light chartering is better than no use at all, but most boat buyers do not seem to agree.

Let's see... in ten years you'll have a 31 year old wooden boat with a v-drive that has been chartered...

You'll be fishing in a pretty small pond when it comes time to find a buyer for that boat.
 
Tom,

I have fished both my CD 22 and my (ex) 26 Bartender in the nasty ocean off Neah Bay. Gordon (Pt. Angeles) is right as to seakeeping ability. BUT (Huge but), the CD 22 does MANY things better, so it's always a trade off. Ain't it always so.

I've been fishing from Pt. Angeles (born there) commercially and privately since 1932 and HOPEFULLY understand how a small boat handles in a following sea. The 26 Bartender handles that kind of gook better than any small boat I've run.

Dusty
 
My last post was OT. Sorry. Re Devlin, Tom Ray is right of course. But (always that but), a Devlin-built boat in the Pac NW is a real jewel to knowledgeable boaters -- and always in demand if in good condition. And next to generators I've had more trouble with V-drives than anything else on a boat. My 85 Burger had V-drives that often made my wallet cry huge tears. Some of them are okay, I know. I wouldn't buy another one fer sure.

Dusty
 
My major experience with steadying sails is with larger sailboats--and large mainsails when motor sailing--they do have an effect. But in general, the preception is that the small steadying sails don't do a lot. If you look at their "sail area" vs the "sail area" of the hull, you can see why...If there is a good breeze and the wind is in the right direction a steadying sail can dampen the roll. But you will get more damping by going faster and letting chines dig in as the boat tends to roll.

I have never run a Bartender, but I have admired them for a long time and have seen them cut thru some pretty rough water. I would still opt for the classic Bartender over the newer "V". I believe that some of the larger Bartenders did have diesels, and with the newer light weight diesels that could be a great combination.
 
"People don't like to own wooden boats". I disagree! Wooden boats are a bit more problematic in Florida due to climate conditions, but in the Pacific Northwest, and the Northeast, you will find many wooden boats and their owners who love them. I could go on and on here, but won't. Yes, the market is much smaller, but if you think C-Dory owners are proud of their boats, you should show up at the Wooden Boat Festival in Port Townsend and talk to some wooden boat owners.

I own two wooden boats. Small yes, but wonderful boats. I have a Salmon Beach Boathouse 10 foot lapstrake skiff that was in the boat livery business from 1930 until the 1950's. It has had two owners since then. It is in beautiful condition. 80 years old.

I also own a 16 foot San Juan Dory that was build in 2005. West System construction. I expect that it will be around for many years to come, and when it comes time to sell it, I don't think I will loose a penny.



Robbi
 
thataway":69r8clgd said:
I am a long time fan of Devlin. I had contacted Sam Devlin in the early stages of having a custom motor sailer built. His price was very high--but of course reflected quality. Some of us saw his larger "Teal" at the Anacortes Show--a real jewel. We also saw her later in the summer underway. I have never heard of a problem with Devlin boats. The boat you are looking at is beautiful. It is a show piece---how will that work for you on the charter market. Also it is listed as sleeping two (I suspect that the settee can also sleep at least one. I also wonder about the shower, leg room at the helm and at the mate's seats?

However, I will play the devil's advocate. The boat is 21 years old. The engine has 1100 hours. The boat is plywood, with glass covering. There is a lot of teak to keep varnished. The boat costs over $70K--and in todays market you can get a lot of boat for 70K.--especailly in trawlers.

Plywood is strong--unless you damage the glass, and have water intrusion. There is the potential for rot--and you have to be careful to be sure that any hole which is drilled or any ding is immediately fixed. You want to be certain that only epoxy was used in this boat--not polyester.

I would want to spend a lot of time on the boat--take a nice long sea trial in some rough weather and have a very good hull and engine survey. A boat is something that you love. I would personally have a problem chartering out this boat--is that is your intent.

Don't let the emotions get in the way of a good business decision. You will be living with this boat for a long time, if your current plans go through. Again, I am being the devil's advocate...and saying take a deep breath. A long time ago, I decided against buying a plywood boat--(I had owned several in the past, but it didn't have this same construction.)

Good luck on your decision--and it is truely a beautiful boat.
Click to expand...

Bob,

I always appreciate the time you give for your honest, frank views. The seller and Sam Devlin assure me that only the trim needs maintenance, unless we clobber something. Putting teak oil on the trim every three months will do it. I see that as an easier task than waxing or polishing my 22 footer.

I paid 65k for it. We close this Monday after sea trial. Survey has been done and all was good. We traded the trailer back to the seller for installation of an autopilot.

Bingo on the epoxy!

Regarding chartering. It will be limited to mom and pops, period. The fleet manager's father is the seller/restorer of the boat. She loves this Devlin and assures me she will be extraordinarily picky with her care of it. Given her track record this past summer with the Carver, I believe she will do a fine job. If there is damage, she will notice it and it will be repaired. Case in point, a charterer hit a log just outside of Friday Harbor. He paid the whole bill and I got new props out of it.

The leg room is sufficient for both seats. I probably will not drive it much. My wife loves to drive. The v-berth is 7'9" centerline. Both the seller and myself are 6 foot and he assures me he sleeps comfortably in it. The settee does sleep 2 but again, it will be marketed as a two person boat. The shower is in the cockpit which suits us fine. We mostly shower at marinas.

It's not a perfect boat. I wish it had a larger engine and perhaps someday it will. I spoke to the charter mechanic about it and he said a trade in for a 75 hp would run 10k, including installation. Given this, is there a mathmetical formula for determining how much speed this would gain the boat?

-Greg
 
Doryman":38f7h2iy said:
I'm looking forward to seeing your new boat, Greg.

Warren
Click to expand...

Likewise Warren. I'd love to hear your observations. She may be leaving tomorrow for Olympia so if you have a chance, I'd go see her tomorrow morning.

-Greg
 
Robbi":331eef0q said:
"People don't like to own wooden boats". I disagree!
Click to expand...

I knew I would cause trouble with that one. Maybe I should have just said "most people" and let market statistics speak for themselves. ;)

Wooden boats are more trouble down in Florida than in cold places, but some still keep them. I was recently aboard this 1930 Matthews 38 when I sold the owner's Marshall catboat. It has been in his family 70 years, and in Florida for over a decade. Still looking good and going strong. Also still for sale, while his fiberglass sailboat has a new owner.
 
Greg,


:thup :thup :thup.

If you come by Strawberry Point on the way down -- we are in the waterfront community just to the south. Wave as you go by. (South house in the group)

Ya done good. Very good.

Dusty
 
Sawdust":2w8vk3rv said:
Greg,


:thup :thup :thup.

If you come by Strawberry Point on the way down -- we are in the waterfront community just to the south. Wave as you go by. (South house in the group)

Ya done good. Very good.

Dusty
Click to expand...

Thanks Dusty. The sellers are taking it south to Olympia. We're doing a sea trial this Monday. But....next spring, we'll take her north to Friday Harbor. I'll give you a friendly wave then.

FTR, it's been asked who built the boat. I'm pleased to say that it was Devlin and his crew.

Whew!

-Greg
 
Wood! My old Herreshoff sailboat, built in 1898 (NO, Charlie, I didn't buy her new), was in pristine condition when we divorced in 197x. Not a bit of rot... :love :love. Had to sign an agreement NEVER to put power on her when I bought her.

Dusty
 
Greg,
It sounds as if you have all of the bases covered--and you will get many wonderful years of pleasure out of this beautiful boat.

As for increasing the power--there is no definate formula, because it depends so much on the hull form and weight. But I suspect that you would have to go for more than 75 hp to get the boat on a plane. Part of this is based on the 29 footer (a bit heavier, with longer water line) has 200 hp and gets speeds of 24 knots, and the 25 footer, with 66 HP gets 14 knots max, with cruising speed 8 to 10 knots. My best guess is that you would probably get 15 to 16 knots WOT (depending on how loaded) and might get a cruising speed of 10 knots, but that would be rather ineffecient, since you are not at a planing speed. (consider the problems that the Ranger 25 has with even the 125 hp and not being truely on a plane--different hull and heavier--but some valid similarities)

I love wooden boats--wonderful works of art. I grew up on a wooden boat, and we figured 10 hours of work for every hour of sailing. Some modern coatings and sealants may have improved that slightly...but the concept of meticulious maintance remains. On the other hand, this Devlin boat is not really a traditional wooden boat.

I have to assume that the boat uses Cetol on the bright work? It is used a lot in the PNW. I converted our Cal 46 (only some toe railings, hand rails, plus cockpit combings (we kept them covered all of the time, except when actually in use) to Cetol. It was fine, until we got into the tropics--and then the UV began to detiorrate it. Also it was susceptable to abraision. The boat was returned to varnish prior to our selling it.
 
And Cetol is the way to go up here in Deception Pass area. But Bob is right on -- gotta stay with it -- but it's so easy to lightly sand and lay on another coat. But there is nothing prettier than a well-done varnish job.

Dusty
 
Tom,
It may be true, if you wash the boat down with fresh water after each use, that Cetol holds up--I disagree that it holds up better than varnish--and I have had a lot of experience in that department.

The problem we found was that when full time cruising, the salt crystals would stay on the cetol and cause it to breakdown with the U V light. Also even the power cord would abraid thru the cetol on the rare occasions we were hooked up to power.

Although there are now "clearer" Cetol, the majority of folks use a highly pigmented product, which does not allow the wood to show thru as well. Yes, Cetol is somewhat easier to recoat--but again, if it is worn down, or started to degrade, the application gives uneven coating--again--that is what we found in the tropics....not in the PNW.
 
Right now we are applying the 6th or 7th coat of Cetol to the new bulkhead in the old 22 Classic. The beautiful grain shows through -- pictures later. Sure agree with Bob -- varnish is much more durable. The Burger hand rails (and toe rails) were all beautiful teak -- varnished -- 96 ft from bow to transom. A real PITA to maintain, but I was a whole lot younger then.

Dusty
 
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