Ooops

Our boat is not here, it is at the boat electrician's shop, or I would run out and look at it closely...

Jim, can you post some pix of your 2x4 fix? I assume our trailer is identical to yours, and I have had some concerns about the way the bow is moving around. I think we better do SOMETHING before the next tow...guess we were just lucky to get to Powell and back (2400 miles) without a problem.
 
Pat, thanks for the help. I hit the wrong key before I got it right, and the rest was downhill.

Anyway, that's an E-Z Loader trailer, and you can see how they've braced the winch/bow roller mount against the front post, with flat plates. It also has a couple of triangulation beams in the winch support structure as well as the front post. Hasn't given us any trouble in approximately 8,000 miles, including a lot of steep downhills, panic stops and really, really rough interstates. Which is a good thing since it's a roller trailer. With a C-25, fast starts aren't a problem.

Also, notice that it's a bolt on structure. I assume one can order it from E-Z Loader and install it on any trailer.

Boris
 
Just for comparison (to get the images on the same page) here's the King winch mount on Merv's trailer
Arm_moved_again.jpg

and an overview image of a King tandem trailer from their web site

KRT4600.jpg
 
Roger,
Just for the record it's the KRT 8600 triple axle but the front post arrangement is the same. If/When the arm moves up under braking it seriously increases the leverage on the post.

In the hands of the adjuster at US boat right now.

Thanks,

Merv
 
This is interesting.

I don't think we've seen movement on the winch bracket, but if we did I would think two bolts through the stand and bracket would lock it in place.
 
Here is a picture of the 2005 King trailer under my 25. Should be the same as both Jim and Lauries and Pat and Pattys. It better shows the brace to the front. It doesn't looks as substantial as the other trailer. I started tying down the handle also since only a small cog is holding the winch in the locked position. I am going to make something more substantial soon.

The catwalk and ladder are my additions.

King_Trailer_2005.sized.jpg
 
That little "cog" popped loose once while I was driving down Bainbridge Island. Even looking through two windows through the camper on the back I could see the nose of the dory floating around. Hasn't happened since but I certainly keep an eye back there now.
 
As for the design of how the arm is attached to the upright, this area needs work regardless of what King says.
If it were me, and I had a boat of that weight on that trailer with rollers, I would add two galvanized straps from near the end of the winch arm down to the center trailer frame member. This would eliminate the ability of up force in a sudden stopping situation to push that arm out of position and the bow eye would be held below the roller until it failed. The idea of a second heavy strap running from the bow eye down around the trailer's center frame rail and back is also a good one. Crisscrossing this strap in front of the upright arm would also create a second way of preventing the boat from slipping more than a few inches backward.
 
David,
Take heart from the fact that the arm is somewhat lower when used with a CD and the shape of your bow would tend to push it down.

In the case of the RF it gets a higher (and probably heavier) push an dit has no place to go but up. Also the rear bolt is located differently which just makes it worse and adds leverage to the bottom plate.

I won't dignify the comments made to me by King today except to say that the "trailer is built to industry standards", (just like the Titanic) and the rest is "all the fault of the consumer". Just like the economy.

For the rest it's in the hands of US Boat Consumer Group and they are very resourceful in finding similar complaints.

Merv
 
This is mostly just to echo what others have said. When I was trailering my CD-16, I always added two (2) straps or chains from the bow eye: One as nearly perpendicular as possible from the eye to the trailer frame; The other as nearly perpendicular as possible from the eye to the post. I also put a strap across the cockpit, just behind the gunnel cleats, in addition to transom tie-downs at the stern. As others have noted, it is also a good idea periodically to check the bolts in the trailer frame itself. The first time I did this (only a few months after acquiring the trailer brand new with the boat), I was astounded to find that the majority of the bolts needed tightening!
 
OK, we are just petrified here, because our boat is in Everett at Superior Marine, Inc. for some fairly expensive but necessary electrical repairs (another story entirely), and the owner, Pete, just called this afternoon and said the boat is ready. Now we are afraid to tow the sucker on our King trailer until we are confident that we can get 'er home. We have noticed that the bow has not seemed positioned correctly relative to the bow stop, and the bow seems to come off the stop and bounce around too much. This was just a head scratcher, until this thread - now it is much more, causing us to wonder if some great problem is just around the corner for us.

Merv - by all means, tell the Boat US folks (you said US Boat, but I assume you meant Boat US) to contact us all. If they want to examine other King trailers, they are more than welcome to look at ours.

Jim - a plea, PLEASE post some pix of your 2x4 fix before you boogie on your RV trip!

All - what would you do just to be sure you could get your boat home safely from Everett to Fall City, maybe 45 miles?
 
Hi Pat,

Here's a photo...

Trailer4E.jpg

The geometry on the winch arm is such that any bump in the road tends to force that arm DOWN. With only three bolts (and two of the three sheared off, I replaced with better/heavier bolts) it was just a matter of time. I considered drilling through the bracket and inserting another bolt, but I was concerned that this might weaken the bracket. You can see the black marks on the upright - that's how far down that entire arm slid... repeatedly, until making the 2x4 support.

If you haven't had a problem to this point, perhaps your trailer is different from ours. When we picked up our boat, we were told it was a new model from King. The side bunks were MUCH higher, to the point where the trailer was almost 9.5 feet wide. When we put a tape measure on it, Jeff wouldn't let me take it from the factory until they cut it down.

We had a problem with the bow stop on the way home from the PNW after picking up our boat. When I saw how far it moved on the trailer, I could see how there could potentially be a problem. I posted about this at the time (before the Wild Blue cruising thread).

This is an old photo. If you need anything different, let me know. The boat is still here at the house until tomorrow.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
Pat,
Tighten up all of the bolts, after you position the bow roller where you think it should be. Go to the hardware store and invest in a couple more of the 2" wide 12,000 lb ratchet straps, crank them down, and shackle a chain from the bow eye to the trailer frame. Let her roll--no worry...
 
Pat, don't panic. remember you got this far, and you can get a little further. Just use a little extra rope, tie the bow down and and throw a rope over the cockpit. Use 1/2 rope (sorry, line,) which you should have in your dock lines. 45 miles ain't fur, and drive carefully. When you get home, see if the set-up that E-Z Loader works (i. e., correct size and fits,) and then order one. If you use straps, get the 3" trucker straps.

Certainly King isn't built to industry standards, since a major mfg. (E-Z Loader,) builds a sturdy brace. You might ask what the standard is: Mickey Mouse-1? Sorry, but obviously self serving statements like that really get to me.

Boris
 
I agree, and what King doesn't know is that a LOT of King owners are in contact through this web site and discovering their BS, like when they told Jim on Wild Blue that nobody every complained about it before. I would not have known that my situation with the winch arm being dropped down was a common problem except for C-Brats. On my boat, it is actually the bow eye that contacts the bow stop roller rather than the bow of the boat, it is dropped that far.

King needs to do a product safety recall here, and I hope Merv's case and the Boat US folks impress that on them. Merv might mention to the Boat US adjuster to see if they can get a count of their insureds owning similar King trailers, this is a loss prevention item that ought to be aggressively pursued.
Capital Sea":1l8h241b said:
As for the design of how the arm is attached to the upright, this area needs work regardless of what King says.
Click to expand...
 
Pat,

Very important you strap bow eye down to trailer chassis to avoid "bounce" which is the root of all evil according to King.

Boat US has a very effective consumer protection division. They also have access to this and other web sites.

Boat US accredited surveyor is looking at boat AND trailer.

More will...

Merv
 
Will have to look at how we might do that, what kind of strap should I buy, what attachment points? I wish the boat was in the driveway instead of in Everett...also, I think we need to brace the winch arm up so the bow contacts the roller.

Grumpy":39ededqy said:
Pat,

Very important you strap bow eye down to trailer chassis to avoid "bounce" which is the root of all evil according to King.

Merv
Click to expand...
 
Wow... Now... let's not all loose focus of checking those fenders for tire rub clearance either/too.

I have owned 3 major "industry brand" trailers. King, EZ-Loader & ShoreLander, & Magic-Tilt.

None have been perfect, all seem to have what I would call "areas for improvement" for what ever vessel.... "I purchase and put on their industry standard" trailers. Every trailer, (except one for a real light boat) needed some help/improvements.

Often trailer are simply not given their due on IMPORTANCE of a total safe towing set up to include, boat, trailer and tow vehicle. These are all tools and systems that all need maintenance and care.

Just be careful. All of the 4 companies I would buy from again, but, depending on just what I put on it....I will, again, have to work on the trailer a bit.

I never have even thought about the trailer fender rub issue until I had a close friend have the problem.....and, it was not a "alway on" problem, but only occurred when the boat was loaded....and bounced going down the road. There is a lot of weight moving and shifting around on our rigs....but, if we are going to be and take advantage of "trailerable"....we have to get in the game and check our goods. Most trailers are nothing more than frames and bolt/weld on parts..... All these bolts need to be checked as do the welds, and some of the bolt(opps on edit I typed boats here).....particuarly on the roller trailer support brackets, have a particular torque rating....too loose is bad, too tight is bad.

Sorry Merv for your mishap. As an individual, I know you took what I, and about 99.9% of the boating public, would and I, and the rest of us, would be right where you are. And, I as an individual do not think you have any issue with the boat other than a bit of cosmetic stuff. These boats are tuff....and overbuilt too.

Byrdman
 
Patrick,

You are right on the mark. I have received a ton of inputs on this topic and many of them refer to various trailer makes.

It is exactly my point that this particular trailer needs refining for this boat and maybe others like it. I believe that some relatively simple design improvements from the manufacturer could do that. If I did them I would invalidate their "warranty".

Pat, I used a ratchet tie down from the bow eye to the foot of the post (not the emergency position where it is in the photos). I believe this is in compliance with all published "recommendations" but it is insufficient in hindsight.

Issue #1 will be to use only "closed" hooks that cannot jump off the bow eye. I do not believe that you can eliminate all "bounce" nor can you apply enough tension to such tie downs to completely avoid this possibility without severely stressing the hull.
There is also a limit to how many hooks you can (or even should) attach to one bow eye.

There are no attachment points provided on the front of the trailer so you are stuck with going around a major frame member and back to the bow eye.

A transom strap may be fine for preventing the boat from sliding sideways but it will not stop it moving forwards or backwards.

I will be adding two thru bolted and re-inforced transom eyes which will be ratchet strapped to the rear trailer attachment points. That will limit maximum fore/aft movement in an emergency.

Merv
 
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