Outfitting a C-22 Cruiser for a long trip in the NWT/Canada

O

ORCA

New member
Hi

End of january i will fly to michigan (kalkaska) to work on my C-dory22. (former Salty Dog from Ohio) :D :thup

We have mutch to do. :roll:

First we would rebuild the v-berth and use it as a big storage room (like Red Fox).
We need the room and weight in the front,7 month on the boat with 2 people :!:
Anybody did that rebuild already on a 22 Cruiser ? :? Any, advice :?:

We have to get a 10hp Honda kicker with remote. Our main engine is Honda 75hp.
How can we do that with one steering system (cable) do we need to upgrade to a hydraulic systems :?: :?

We also have to install 2 (additional) 50gallon gas-tanks in the back! I know it is a lot but there are not mutch gas stations on the way..... Any advice :?: :shock:

We will have at least 2000 pounds on board, will trim tabs help us :?: :shock:

How difficult is a upgrade to electric wiper motors :?:

What would be a good (low/mid- priced) Radar :?:

Any advice on an autopilot :?:

Any advice on a heater :?: (we don't want a wallas) I really like the Dickinson and Force 10...

Does anybody know something about the new Humminbird 987c SI side scan sonar/gps ?
Is it worth the money :?:

Any advice for a roof rack for our Mokai -Jet boat :?:
http://www.mokai.com/products.html

Any advice on waterproof our Canvas Camper back :?:

What brand for a 1-2000 Watt generator :?: (honda Yamaha...)

Any help would be really nice. :thup

Regards Chris
 
Hi Chris,

Sorry I can't offer much advice on your individual questions, but it sounds to me like you are planning to take this boat WAY beyond it's design limits. I would get a marine architec/engineer involved in this if it were me. You are talking about an additional 700+ pounds of fuel (plus the weight of the tanks), the kicker (figure another 100 pounds or so), and that jet boat (150+ pounds). All that weight in the back and/or up high sounds problematic to this admittedly untrained eye. I think you're going to need something more than trim tabs to solve this situation.

Electric wiper motors shouldn't be a problem - wire 'em in and you're good to go. The wiring is all exposed on these boats.

The only electronics I have direct experience with for Radar and Autopilot are Raymarine, and I have been pleased with ours.

Check out Sea Skipper's heater install. On the other hand, the Wallas has been very effective for our needs.

No idea for a roof rack - see the above suggestion for a marine engineer.

The Honda EU2000 is a very popular unit. We have one and love it - it takes care of our electrical needs onboard with no problem.

Good luck with this project. Did I mention consulting with a marine architec/engineer? :shock:

Jim B.
 
Hi

@Jim B

The weight is not a problem, i already talk to c-dory about this.
Thats why we want to get a lot of weight in the front under the v-berth!

I know the gas tanks are a problem, maybe we will have to live with just one 50 gallon extra tank and make some Gas Depot.
But hey my last Catamaran on the yukon had a weight of 2600 pounds.
The pontoons where only out of hypalon and 21food long !
Everybody was telling me it wont work! Well, i did the hole yukon (2200 miles) with a 10hp engine with no problem...
And i had some really ,really bad weather...
All it takes is Common sense and time.... :D
http://www.long-expeditions.de/580013/home.html

I will go slow about 8-10 mph.We will do a lot of filming and we have plenty of time. :shock:

Our Mokai Jet-Boat is just 100pounds, i don't think this is to mutch for the roof, but hey, maybe I am wrong, thats why I ask here...

I think the c-dory will make it.
I just have to make it work right.( I am always an optimist) :D

Regards Chris
http://www.long-expeditions.de/585908/home.html
 
I appreciate your enthusiastic optimism, Chris. I've always thought of myself as a glass-half-full kinda guy, too. I found that 150 pound weight of the jetboat on the link you posted (and I've never seen a manufacturer who over-estimated the weight of their marine product). Now, 50 pounds isn't gonna sink your CD. But, that is 50% over your estimate. I was just putting out some things to be considered on all those other options. At a certain point, weight and balance on a small boat is going to have to be addressed... I'm glad to hear you have had discussions with the manufacturer on all these issues.

I wish you all the best with your endeavor.

Jim B.
 
Hi JIm B.

Sorry Jim, :oops: forgot to say that one can separate the engine from the Jet Boat, thats why it just weigh 100 pounds.

I know, the hole thing wont be easy , but hey thats part of my live. :D

Thanks for your advice :thup

Regards Chris
 
Hey Chris, mayhaps you ought to consider

tow1.jpg


this... :shock: :lol: :roll:
 
Chris,

If you are talking about storage under the v-berth the RedFox pictures are probably the best you will get. You just need to open it up, remove the foam, and rebuild with the access you need.

When looking at CD's I saw one with a fuel tank under the v-berth but the whole cabin smelled of gas.

There has been recent posts about using a steering rod to link the main to a kicker so you can steer from the cabin but run with the 10hp. You could also get on of the trolling set-ups that will allow you to control the speed of the kicker and have an autopilot. Search this site.

The saddle tanks that RedFox installed might be a way to add fuel tanks. Those are custom made - look at his site for the pics.

Try JRC for a radar I think they are less exspensive.

Search this site for several installations of the different heaters. I would also suggest a CO detector.

There are also several versions of roof racks on the site. I have seen CD22's with 2 kayaks on top - easily 100lbs +.

From your site it looks like you have more than enough experience to make this work and the C-Dory is built strong. Like you said - just use common sense and follow any recommendations the factory makes.

Good Luck,
Steve
 
if your trip is pretty well planned out .. another route to take is to have supplies dropped off ... gas food etc. ... the big companys use helicopters but float planes use to cover the area during the summer less expensive ... more room in the boat more comfort ... the restrictions may be more in effect now but years back i have seen gas, explosive's just about every thing dragged out of a float plane ... if its on their run so to speak may be reasonable rates ... in Hay River 1960 so may be all changed now .. wc
 
Chris – something to consider is the Permatrim for the engine instead of trim tabs. I know it is very effective at slower speeds (10 mph range) in getting the bow down. Also look at putting in saddle tanks in-between the hull and fiberglass lining in the deck. If you allow them to stick out into the deck area a little, you should be able to get at least 35 gallons on each side and take up very little room.
________
Dave dlt.gif
 
The float planes have bladder tanks to haul 275 gal of fuel but you
will need a fuel depot where someone will not help themselves to your
fuel. Make sure you check out and take pictures of the High School in
Hay River and its rather pretty paint job. Purple eh! For navagation
check out the Raymarine C80 system. It also will interface with the
steering if it is hydraullic. Has Radar, GPS, vhf (DCS), sonar and auto
pilot all in one. Bob Heselberg Eatonville Wa
 
I hauled gas cans in my Supercubs all the time when I had them. Just contract with a bush operation up there to keep you supplied with gas "on call" and make whatever communication arangements need be made.
 
Hi there

@ JamesTXSD , seabran , wailedcentipede , oldgrowth , K7MXE , flagold :thup


Thank you so mutch for all your help! :thup :thup

Yes, i think RED Foxes Website gave a lot of very nice idea's.

I will carry a bladder tank. That will save some weight.

Maybe, we will skip the 10hp engine...

The JRC radar, looks like a good idea. :thup

A a CO detector we will use for sure.

What do you guy's think about the Permatrim and the trim Tabs :?:

Raymarine C80 system is really nice but gets spendy..
I have a Garmin 276C and will buy a Standard Horizon CP1000C because i will need C-MAP-MAX Charts, thats the only one with at least some Marine Maps from the NWT.

The Garmin Topo Canada and USA are very good on Land, but useless on water. I have both.

I think it is not a bad idea to have all electronics to be separate. If one fails you still have the other ones....

Yup, it is a problem to fly out some gas without other using it.....

@Captains Choice
This is not a good idea..........





Regards Chris
http://www.long-expeditions.de
 
I don't know much about this stuff, but I don't think you should skip the 10 HP kicker. Also extra props. Are you starting in the south and going North?
 
Hi there

@dotnmarty

I know, a 10 hp would be nice.... :cry:
We will carry a buch of spare props.

I will work on the boat from Feb-April in Michigan and then drive it up to Fort Mc Murray in Canada and start from there.

Regards Chris
 
Chris

Have the JRC radar. I agree hard to beat for the price.

Unless you have something better you might check out the mac river runner prop protector. I've used them on a RIB and the c-dory. Saved my props many times.

Don't know anything other than whats been said here about Permatrims but wouldn't be without our trim tabs. With the load your planning the combination sounds good to me.

Don't know about the rest of the Mackenzie River but at Tsiigehtchic [Artic Red River] it was a long walk packing 5 gallon containers to refuel. We met two guys there working on a grant from one of the Eastern Canadian Universities. They had a RIB and at least 30, 5 gal containers for fuel. They had hired someone from the Village to haul the fuel. Don't know for sure, but bet its similar in other towns along the river. One thing for sure the more fuel you can carry the better.

We also now have the garmin US 276 C with US and Canadian Topo. When on the Yukon River and other Canadian rivers and lakes just had a garmin E map with enhanced Canadian map it didn't tell you what was under the water but still was considerable help to us.

Checked out the Mokai-Jet Boat web site. Sure liked what it said about it. Could see one of those in our future. It will be tough getting on and off the boat roof even at 100 lbs. On the water its not all that easy with 50 lbs. Will be interesting to see how you do it.

We switched to hydraulic steering and the S1000 Raymarine auto pilot. We have twins and with a single motor it would even be easier to do. Totally pleased with ours. Had read about possible problems with hydraulic steering but after having our cable steering lock up decided you can have trouble with either one and the auto pilot is better with hydraulic.

Its truly a grand and wonderful adventure you are planning. After checking your web site have great respect for what you have already accomplished and for your present plans and can and WILL DO attitude.
 
Hi there

@Hunkydory

I think i will go with the Standard Horizon CP1000C-GPS, JRC radar, the S1000 Raymarine auto pilot with Seastar hydraulic steering system and the Permatrims and Lenco Trim Tabs and Indicator Switch.
Do you use the 12" x 12" Trim Tabs or bigger :?:

I think the combination Radar and my Leica/Vectronix Big-35 Night Vision Scope will be perfect and fun for night navigation :D

Regarding the extra gas tanks I think I go with 2x 27 gallons like Red Fox.
I also will carry a bladder tank for the sections where we really need a lot of fuel (Big Bear Lake)

I think rebuilding the v-berth for storage will be the worst job :?

I already bought LED Lamps for the entire boat, inside in White and some red light for night navigation. The LED Lamps a very, very power efficient :thup

A nother thing I really need it a high radar arch, for all my antennas.
(Sat-Phone, Sat-Weather Receiver, SW, VHF,UHF, W-Lan Antenna ect...)

Regarding the generator, I don't know yet if it will be a Honda or Yamaha :?

There will be a lot of electronics for the filming on board, fixed cameras inboard, HDTV Monitor and a lot of Akku's to charge :shock: ...

I really like the Mokai Jet Boat. I had a chance to play with one on the yukon river and i can tell you it is a blast its like driving formula one on water, not as fast but same fun :D :D :D :D

The mac river runner prop protector sounds like a very good idea, thanks for the tip :thup

Yup, the garmin US 276 C with US and Canadian Topo worked really fine for me on the yukon too, but for the NWT I also need the C-MAP-MAX maps !

Yes, i will have to ask some locals for help when refueling, its the same problem sometimes on the yukon.
But hey, thats a very good way to meet some locals... :thup

Thanks Jay & Jolee for the help
 
Chris

You might reconsider the SeaStar Hydraulic Steering. BayStar will work just as well for much less cost. SeaStar is for boats up to 300 hp---BayStar 150 hp. We have the BayStar and it does well.

We have the Bennet 10x12 trim tabs. Works well for us but there has been times when bigger would have been better. Haven't personally checked this, but if you do go with the 10 hp kicker might check the room left for larger trim tabs. Your choice of Lenco 12x12 should be good.

If it wouldn't break your budget you might check into the Yamaha 6 hp kicker with built in remote auto pilot. You then wouldn't need connecting rod between motors for steering. Changing to hydraulic steering was more of a hassle with the two motors for us. You would then also have two separate systems for steering and propulsion. Wouldn't if I had the choice go where you're planning with out back up motor.

Night optics, generation 3 or 4 is on our want list. They are to expensive at the moment for us. I'll bet this summer there will be times your happy to have them.

Have the Sat phone. Never needed outside antenna in boat. Did in the pick up. With all the Sat communications and others antennas you have a arch is good. Hopefully you can figure a way to get the Mokai under the arch.

Could 2 people fit at least semi comfortably in the Mokai Jet Boat or is it realistically a one person craft.

Jay
 
Hi Jay

The BayStar looks good and that will save some bucks. :thup

Regarding the Mokai, yes you can sit with 2 people in motobike style.
Don't know how comfortable it is on long runs...

If i got space i will use the Lenco 12x12 trim tabs. :D

Oh man, i can tell ya,the Night scope is fantastic.
With the naked eye all you see is a black wall,
but with the Leica ( XD-4 DEP tube )you can count the leaves on a tree :shock:

Oh, by the way, there is no Gen.4 !
What people call Gen.4 is in fact a Gen.3 in witch they where removing the ion barrier film and "Auto Gate" the system! That will increase the target detection range and resolution, particularly at extremely low light levels and will minimise the halo effect a little bit, but not as good as a XD-4 or XR-5 tube(both DEP tube).
But a good old Gen.3+ is all you need, don't waste your mony on 4...
The big advantage about a very good Gen.3 is the very high response tors infra red. That means Gen.3 is very good in very, very low light situations.

But even better for boating is on of the Thermal vision units :wink:


Regards Chris
 
Chris

Very good information on night vision. Thanks

You may not need a roof rack for Mokai. If your boat isn't a high top I think you might be able to just set it on top with soft protection in between c-dory and Mokai. Or maybe a semi hard cradle and just tied down. If it was me and sometime soon it just may be, I would try that first. With canvas back covering cockpit you may still need roof rack. We have the canvas back but don't use it due things just like this and interfering with getting around and in and out of boat in places like you are going.

Jay
 
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