Outfitting a New TomCat 255

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drjohn71a

New member
New TomCat is due to be done at the factory by end of November, 2006. Tentative plans to take it to Puget Sound Yacht Services to install electronics and accessories, followed by my flying to Seattle to cruise as much as possible up there from Christmas to New Years, and then have the boat shipped to Oklahoma.

All the great info about networked Gps, plotter,autopilot, radar, fishfinders, etc., now swirling in my head and the cash for toys now at an all time low. Sooo... could you help me decide on some of these things?

1 - The Raymarine E system seems really neat, but is the 12 inch display too tall for the small dash mount area? It looks to me like the Garmin, more rectangular, lower display migh be better. Or should I go with the smaller E80, 8.4 inch screen(s).

2 - I am having an aft steering station put in the cockpit and would like a second display to mount there and then move it to the co-pilot's area, or adjacent to the main helm when not using the cockpit station. Would two smaller screens be better than one big one? ... at the helm?

3 - Only the 12 inch, E 120 has the 800x600 resolution. The E-80 and all the Garmin displays cite 640 x480 displays. Is that about the same sharpness on the smaller screens?

4 - The Garmin, 2 and 4k radar has better sharpness than the Raymarine 4k, lower horizontal beam width. If I got a Garmin network system, would there be alot of expense in installng an autopilot to that system?

5 - The Northstar network system seems less expensive. Is that an OK system? Does the NavMan system have networking?

Well, lots of questions you all have already probably answered, but I 'd appreciate any updating! JOhn
 
Also, maybe Da Nag or someone could allow a "2007"model year on the boat listings. Also, Does anyone know of a place near Puget Sound Yacht Services, I think it is in Edmonds, like a motel/hotel on or near the docks that I could stay at? I'd stay in the boat, but will have no accessories with me! Also, do they keep pump out stations open up there in the winter? John
 
Thanks, Dusty and Bill! John

another question: Reading some of the posts about the TomCat performing better when level, and looking at the engine positions on the trailer it appears that most ppl are trying to keep the bow down by tilting the motors. Do you all think a set of Permatrim fins mounted on the Hondas would be a good idea?

John
 
I will answer your last question first. So far we have not felt the need for Permitrims. I have talked to the folks who sell them. We find plenty of trim range with the engines/cavitation plate. What I don't know is how much difference they will make in really heavy weather. However, the Tom Cat 255 is extremely sensitative to trim, and we are working it all of the time--as much as the throttles.

I have one 6 1/2" screen split for depth finder/ fishfinder and a second chart plotter (can be full scale of either)-- Both of these are small, but adequate--the second chart plotter is for Marie to use or for me to use on small scale--general overview of where we are going. The primary navigation GPS is 6" and very adequate for chart plotting--for me. The Radar (above) is 7" and again adequate--would not want much smaller.

I am not a fan of integrated units--if you loose the system--you have nothing. At least if I loose one unit, I still have a second GPS plotter. I only have one depth finder currently, but will put in a small cheapie--maybe only a digital display.

I believe if you network the Raymarine with two displays you will have to go to the more expensive E series--but that may be wise, because it does give you the backup, or option of two screens.

Personally I find that 2 KW is plenty of Radar Power and even on my boats I took across oceans I went with 24" dome and 2 KW power. If you want to find birds when fishing, then go with at least 6 KW and consider a wider open scanner (which I don't thing is a good idea on the C Dory). I don't overlay radar--I do it in my head and have been doing it that way for over 35 years, so I t'aint changing. The most important thing with Radar is to get practice--use it on good days, so you know how to use it and what you see when it gets bad. Learn how to tune it for the conditions--do not relie on auto tune.

As to brand. I think Furuno still makes the best Radar, I was down on Garmin for a long time because of some of their policies and cartography.
But, I'll have to admit, I just got a 330 for my car and it is great. You need to consider what cartography you want. Furuno has both C map and Navionics. Lowrance (which is one of the best values currently, and it has both NMEA 2000, as well as NMEA 0183--(we will see the biggest advances in electroncis in the NMEA 2000 group in the next year or so).
The HD units have all of the US NOAA charts, plus topo maps built in--and I think they are good for coastal navigation. They also take all of the Navionics products. Standard Horizon uses C maps. Furuno uses C maps and Navionics--can be changed back and forth as I understand it.

I cannot comment on Northstar and Navman--they were both bought by Brunswick and I believe that they both are now again for sale. Customer support on Navman has remained good.

RayMarine uses Navionics charts. In the past Raytheon didn't have the best reputation for reliability. The "new" company (spun off and sold recreational boating) seems to be much better. I don't think that you will notice the resolution between either of the two of these, unless you are going to run videos on the screen--and that is pretty unlikely on the 8" display.

I could switch out one of my 6 or 6 1/2" displays for 10"--I don't see any reason--BUT I am running separte screens. Also look at the "night mode"
For that I don't think that anyone has Standard Horizon beat with a very good red/blue night vision friendly mode. We came back in dusk and went to the night vision last evening--by comparison we liked it better than just dimming the other display.

So no answers, but a logical way to think about things--who has the best charts, what do you want to do with it and do you want to network the two.
I don't know about a chart plotter at the aft station, but many folks put in a separate fish finder for the aft station--including one like the "Bottom line" which tracks and auto adjusts downriggers. I can see that a very accurate bathospheric chart could be helpful--so examine which cartography gives the best bathospheric charts--Especially the Navionics Platinum or C map Max.

Finally, auto pilots can be hooked up to any of these. I would tend to look at the virtual feedback, or if you go with RayMarine consider a rotary feedback--not the linleal. Also consider a rate gyro vs a flux gate sensor for better steering. The Simrad A 16, the TR1 and the newer RayMarine pilots are all well thought of units which have virtual feedback. Also look at trolling patterns which are available with each motor.

Let us know what you decide and why!
 
Oh gosh! Thanks for the info... 'wish I could print all that out! It will take me awhile with a notepad and catalog to compare all that stuff...

John
 
I'm not sure of the space difference between the CD-25 and the TC but the E-120 fit fine on mine. I have a pic in my album. I love the large display. It is very good if you don't like to overlay charts and want to see everything. The chart for the lake we are on appears to be very accurate and complete. The platinum chart for the gulf is awsome! The auto pilot works great. If you like to chart a course the screen can fill up with red X's quick! Another reason for the larger screen. In short, my thought was if it would fit I wanted it.
 
Great write up Bob!

FYI: The Lowrance Radar doesn't do overlay. Also the Sonar is not networked on the Lowrance NMEA 2000 bus. IMHO I would rather have Lowrance for Sonar and Garmin, Furuno, or Raymarine for GPS/Radar. Lowrance GPS works fine but I don't like the way they make you manually switch between charts when you move from one chart area to another. I haven't played with the other products enough to know how they handle this. In Lowrance's defence I think this must come from the licensing they have set up with Navionics because of their in house charts.

Garmin and Raymarine have gone to digital Sonar. While in theory this sounds like a good thing in practice I think the Analog is still better. I know that since I have learned to tweak the Lowrance I really like it for the way you can setup the sonar. With the Raymarine system it was much harder to tweak the sonar to my liking. I have yet to play with the Garmin on the water so I can't comment on it. Although in the store it doesn't compare with what I can do with the Lowrance.

My current thinking is that I will get a LCX-25C for the cockpit and a LCX-111HD for the helm. I will then network in the GPS antenna via the NMEA2000 bus as well as the fuel flow sensor. If/when I have the funds I will then get a Furuno radar as a stand alone unit. I also plan install a small computer and a touch screen. This will be running Coastal Explorer at the helm station. Thus I will have redundency and the ability to fish from the rear helm station with a screen in the back.

Finally, if I can find the money, I want to get the TR-1 hooked up to my yet to be purchased Kicker. Sigh, I really need to win the lotto!
 
John, If you want to maintain an unobstructed view ahead, you'll need to raise the pilots seat 3-4 inches depending on your height and use an 8" display. Anything larger intrudes on your sight lines IMHO. We use the E-80, Platinum Navionics chart and 4 kw Radar. A computer monitor in any size can be then used for a second display. You will not have control over the functions from your cockpit location unless you use an auxiliary keyboard. See Dreamer album.

We especially like the MARPA function and radar over chart overlay. I would operate the TC with out autopilot a while before deciding to install one or not. You will enjoy the boat. Hope we can see you and your TC while you're in our area.
 
thanx all for the experienced info. glijr - I like that LCX 111 HD, but could not figure out how to network it. I don't know what a TR1 is...

The thing with autopilot and accessories is that noone around here has any experience in networking, radar, nor autopilot installation, so I 'd probably have to figure out how to do it myself for anything other than what I can get put on up there in Seattle. So, I am leaning toward trying to get the most I can afford installed up there.

Roger of Dreamer - I am confused about that remote keypad thing from Raymarine. I see you have a huge flat display in the co-pilot's area which I am guessing needs that keyboard, but what if I put another E-80 in the cockpit helm.... that would work OK wouldn't it? I don't have any catalogue that shows that flat screen or anything that the remote keyboard would run.

I like to troll the ledges fishing, so want to have the depth, gps, and auto pilot controls handy in the cockpit where I spend most of my time. The pics I've seen of that tiny cockpit console make it look like a challenge to get the radio, autopilot, gps, depth,etc., all nearby.

thanks for all your info! the wheels are turning... John
 
Also, Roger, did you install an autopilot? My main reason for one is that I like to go slow to my destination, fishing ground or whatever, and use that time to rig up for whatever activity is planned upon arrival. Being by myself most of the time, the autopilot would let me keep on going while doing small chores aboard. Also, on the Gulf of Mexico, it can be a long way out to the oil rigs and wrecks.

Up to this point, I would often get out to open water, put out a drift sock, and daydream, draw, paint, read, write, design, etc., while slowly drifting. I am thinking the autopilot on a single engine would allow me to actually be going somewhere while doing all this other stuff.

Thanks to Brent and Dixie's log notes about going hull speed on a single outboard! John
 
drjohn71a-

The TR-1 Gold Autopilot is a sophisticated autopilot used for trolling motors that can electronically autopilot the kicker with remote steering and throttle control.

It's the top of the line technologically now, and will run about $2500 with wired controls, $2900 wireless.

The TR-1 Gladiator is for main motor systems, and has the remote control features as well. Figure $4000.

B~C would say, these are the "bees knees" in autopilots!

You can do a SEARCH on our website here for our discussions of it, or look in the Forums under Motor Controls.

Here's a LINK to their promo video:

Joe
 
Thanks, Joe! But Ouch! 3 grand for a kicker autopilot? I don't know if I will ever need a kicker on the TomCat, but who knows? I will file away that info for maybe some future time. I really appreciate all the info and links! John
 
Jljjr is correct that the depth sounder is NMEA 0183--But all of the other outputs can be 0183 also. Correct me if I am wrong, but the major feature of NMEA 2000 is the buss system. Thanks for the heads up on the Radar, not overlaying--I suspect the new model will. (Especially since Sitex/Simrad are all involved).

My LCX 26 C hard drive, is seamless in navigating the entire U S and some other territories--no switching of charts, as in previous models.--but perhaps you are refering to if you put in a chip--you have to specify which you want to use--the chip or built in hard drive. I got confused on that one with a 4 year old Lowrance--I had an SD Card with Create a map, and then put in Navionics--took a few minutes to find out why the Navionics didn't read--just a menue funciton. For example I have the Topo and Nauticpath, which I have to select between--obviously I leave it on the Nauticpath, unless I am trying to find the nearest pizza parlor. I also have the Navionics lake charts for the SouthEast--and have to choose them--but all of the lakes come up as you pan across the SE--no need to open individual charts. The current generation of Lowrance does not use the platnimum Navionics--but again I suspect that the next generation (Jan 07) will use the platnimum. One item I am looking for, which I think will come on the 2000 Buss is AIS reciever.

As far as auto pilots--any of them will work with an NMEA 0183 output--just hook up a couple of wires--don't even have to solder anymore! Although the DF doesn't read on the bus--it does read on my Furuno Radar display, along with most of the GPS information.

I cannot disagree with you on the radar--but I find the Lowrance GPS plotter is a bit better than what you may have experienced in the past.
I am not really sure that the C-map MAX is worth, it--but I have much of the Gulf Coast, and most of the COE river charts on one chip--and it is seamless all the way to Lake Michigan/ I haven't tried the Navionics on that area (except the lakes on the TEnn river--which is good)--or the Navionics Platinum. I personally would not opt for the extra of the Platinum based on what I heard on various fishing forums--but with time and people getting used to them, they may be better.

Heck, its is all good in todays world--just look at reliability and service.

Regards,
 
John;

I will take delivery of my new TC255 next week. I have owned boats for many years and have been a great Garmin fan. The electronics that I ordered for Reefmadness follows:
1. Garmin 3210 bundle
incl. dig sounder, network expander and xm wx mod.
2. SP16 auto pilot (Virtual Feedback)
The linear feedback models tend to have problems with
feedback hardware. Breaks at 2 yrs.
3. 4kw garmin radar
4. ICOM 504 radio w/command mic for 2nd station

I will use my Garmin GPSMAP Sounder 188 for the 2nd station. This creates redundancy for all but the radar. I believe that the 3210 will be mounted on the roof just starboard of the center window. The radio will be mounted on the upper shelf on the centerline. I will let you know how things work when I take delivery. If you want to check prices on all the units available, I have used www.consumersmarine.com for many years and am very happy with their service and extremely happy with their prices. However getting someone to install was a slight problem. Install charge is $2000.00.

Gene Morris
 
Gene, thanks for your info.... OUch!, $2,000 installation? ... for plug 'n play? I am just now beginning the sticker shock on electronics.

I liked the garmin 3210 size and shape better than the Raymarine, but I did not know what autopilot would go with that. What is an "SP-16"? Is Virtual Feedback the manufacturer or the operating system. I am getting some quotes right now and would like to know what autopilot would work with that 3210C display system. When you get your new boat, post some pics ASAP, please....

Congrats! John
 
John,
Most of the hydaulic steering auto pilots have a feed back circuit to indicate to the "brains" where the rudder is. (Hyraulic steering has "creep", so that the wheel is not always in the same position). Some mechanical steering pilots do not need feed back units--such as the tiller or wheel pilots.

Most hydrualic pilots have this real feed back. The outboards used a linlear unit which had many problems--so many installers recommend a rotary unit modified for outboards (potted in epoxy)--basically a rayostat which gives resistance propornate to the amount of rudder deviation. Recently several computerized pilots have "virtual feedback"--The computer remembers how much rudder had been given, and then uses this along with GPS data to determine the amount of rudder (very simplistic explaination). The AP 16 by Simrad is one of the new breed--
http://www.atlanticrt.com/Simrad/autopi ... cetrek.htm

The TR1, and one of the Raymarine (I think 6000 series) has virtual feedback. Simrad has a good reputation with its pilots. The virtual feed back units are more expensive but you don't have the extra wiring and a rotary unit sticking out in the blue. I think it is worth it.

Any GPS will give NMEA 0183 sentencing which gives the information that the pilot needs--doesn't make much difference what brand of GPS--as long as the sentencing is the standard. For a good review of the NMEA 2000 see:
http://www.maretron.com/company/pubs/An ... 20Show.pdf

One of the problems with any of the output is that there have been minor diffferences between the various manufactures in the NMEA sentencing. Hopefully all of the manufactures will follow the exact standards for 2000, which has been slow to be adopted.


NMEA 2000 is plug and play (sort of)--which will allow engine instruments, all manor of other electric sensors to read directly on the display--like the chart plotter. Some outboards are now available with this technology--and "guages" as we know them will be come obsolete. RayMarine "E" series of instruments use the NMEA 2000 backbone--and autopilots will be part of this series shortly if not currently available.
 
Does anyone know if transducers and cables use a universal connection to all makes of sounders? In other words could I use a garmin transducer with a ramarine or lawrance sounder for example. Wouldn't be a good idea to use a thru hull mount if this were the case.

I am also of the understanding that thru hull provides more consistent readings than a transom mount. Correct?
 
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