Outfitting New Boat

[Foggy]

I would not minimize the advantage of having radar some claim is the second
most important nav/safety aid behind GPS. Of course, a VHF radio is essential.

Now the new doppler units are small, fast (no warm up), accurate and use only
40W (vs "small 4kW" units) and tract traffic incoming vessels as possible collision
in a different color vs out going non-threatening vessels. Garmin has a
"fantom" unit at under $2k. I'm licking' my chops.

Aye.

 

[Snider]

I was just looking at the Garmin and Simrad packages over at the WM site, interesting stuff. I don't keep up with this much but the 3G and 4G radar from Simrad seems interesting, as is that Garmin you mentioned.

 

[Snider]

Here's an idea, I could buy that new Icom M93d floating handheld, it has DSC and GPS and just keep my mounted unit for now, maybe upgrade later. I guess the benefit of an upgraded mounted unit would be the increased range from the higher antenna mount.

Horizon is coming out with a unit that sends and receives AIS, waiting on FCC approval and requires dual antenna mounts, interesting.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/gear/stand ... ransponder

 

[thataway]

Here's an idea, I could buy that new Icom M93d floating handheld, it has DSC and GPS and just keep my mounted unit for now, maybe upgrade later. I guess the benefit of an upgraded mounted unit would be the increased range from the higher antenna mount.

Horizon is coming out with a unit that sends and receives AIS, waiting on FCC approval and requires dual antenna mounts, interesting.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/gear/stand ... ransponder

The Article linked above was a quote from Panbo (Ben Ellison) From Oct. 2016~

Recently Ben amended the link as thus:

1/6/2018 Warning: Before you get excited about the GX6500 combo Class B AIS and VHF, know that it is still not available for purchase and according to Standard Horizon may never be available. I do not know the details of the apparently failed approval process, but I'm sure that SH was once confidant that it could be approved, and I know they're embarassed about what's happened. Meanwhile, the less ambitious but still feature rich GX6000 also hasn't shipped, but apparently that may change this year. ~ Ben

There are a number of legal and security issues with AIS transmitters, as well as the technology.

The Standard Horizon GX 870 is $100 cheaper than the Icom, has 6 watts vs 5 and includes an AAA battery tray as well as the Li Ion battery, (I get one of the standard battery trays for my hand held, since they may be ditch bag units.)

But a hand held does not take the place of a 25 watt, with good antenna--you range will be many times further! . The VHF radio is an important safety device--don't cheap out on it...but use your money wisely.

 

[hardee]

Hi Brandon, Welcome and Congrats on the new C-Dory. You are going to love it. Yes, upgrade that VHF. Look at the ICOM M-506 with AIS receive. Much the same features as the Standard Horizon EXCEPT it also has a last call 2 minute record feature. Super valuable (IMHO) for monitoring ch 16 especially, unless you have instant recall and fast fingures to take notes.

I too am a total believer in radar, along with (at least) AIS receive capability.

And a hand held VHF is just a good safety feature to have on your pfd.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[starcrafttom]

So I am going to get in on this a little. All advice above is great and well stated, sad it hear about the GX6500 combo Class B AIS and VHF, I was looking to buy that unit.

So if you are looking to not spend a lot on upgrades now you have to figure out what are have to have items and what are would like to have items and what are just cool to have items

Have to have= mounted vhf, depth finder. You can get by with just these items. boated with far less for years.

Would like to have= GPS chart plotter ( this is almost have to have) Radar, auto pilot.

Cool to have=AIS

Now people are going to be split on the RADAR and AIS categories but heres why radar trumps AIS. Radar shows everything you cant see. AIS only shows boats equipped with AIS IF!!!! they bother to turn them on. I would rather see what is there then only half ( on a great day) of what might be there. Radar will also show you what is there ( land masses, rocks, pilings, navigation ads, etc ) as appose to chart plotters that only show you what should be there and where it should be.

Same is true of depth finders and chart plotter ( thu its so cheap to get a multi function display these days) . Depth finder will show you the depth that is under you and not the depth that should be under you. Its funny but I catch people running their chart plotter with the depth sounder display turned off. WTF??? why run with half the info. At least have the depth read out on the side of the screen so you can see if the chart is up to date with reality.

So thats my take. Better to see reality then stored data or only half the data.

Ok quick side note on who you are boating with on the water. In a cruiser forum a Captain stated that he ran his radar ( 80 ft newer $$$ boat) so that other people could see him better. WTF???? he was under the impression that his radar signal was seen by other radar units.

 

[ssobol]

...Ok quick side note on who you are boating with on the water. In a cruiser forum a Captain stated that he ran his radar ( 80 ft newer $$$ boat) so that other people could see him better. WTF???? he was under the impression that his radar signal was seen by other radar units.

Maybe he figured that the rotating antenna made a good radar reflector (might actually be true, although the return might be intermittent).

 

[Snider]

Thanks Hardee, I forgot about that feature of the ICOM, and thanks for the welcome, I love this group, and the boat.

Starcrafttom, that's funny, I'm never surprised by what I see on the water. I've been mostly running blow boats for almost 20 years (wow, where does time go) mostly with nothing but a compass and paper chart on the smaller ones, all the way up to the most sophisticated electronics on some big race boats and deliveries. One essential piece of gear that I leaned to love was a depth sounder, I'd even take that over a GPS. With a chart, hand bearing compass and depth finder I can follow on the chart what the depth 'should' bet based on what it is, especially at night in confined waters I could always take a tack over based on real depth, when it starts to get shallow I'd tack and would generally know where I was based on charted channel depths. Now that I'm not constrained by having to run an engine just to charge batteries, or large battery banks I figure I can have more conveniences. I have a non DSC 25watt installed VHF, of course I have my handheld VHF and GPS Map 76 that I've been using for over 10 years, add a few paper charts and I'm really good to go. Now that I have kids aboard I'll eventually add one of those ICOM's for the DSC distress capability. After learning and thinking about AIS, I agree, I'd much rather have radar. So in order of importance, and the way I'll upgrade would be to add a MFD (leaning towards the Simrad evo3), not sure what size, I really need to mock up the boat and see what doesn't restrict visibility, but maybe a 7-9". I've been offshore on sailboats at night and it kills me when I come up on deck to find the watch staring blindingly into a 16" display, and glancing at the horizon, it should be the other way around. That Simrad will leave the door open for a radar and or auto pilot if I decided on it. I think I'll get the VHF and MFD fairly quickly, or at least within the next few months, it's not really a need, but a nice to have/cool thing. The area I sail really has a lot of shoaling and changing areas, especially where I want to go, it's part of the reason I didn't buy another sailboat, plus we didn't want to take all day to get there. Since we will cruise some, I'll replace the little round depth gauge with a battery monitor gauge, and the depth will move up to the MFD, so hopefully the boat will retain it's simple but functional appearance except for the addition of the display.

I'm enjoying the vast knowledge that's searchable in this forum, great stuff here.

Thanks

 

[starcrafttom]

We talk a lot about how much room the chart plotter takes up in the window. You will find that most of that window view is of your front deck anyhow so do not go small on the screen. Yes it will block a portion of the window but its not a portion that you use to see anything. A 12 inch screen on the left side of the steering wheel is not going to block your usable view in the least.

I am thinking about ( and saving for) redoing all electronic on my 27 and going with the Simrad go 9 for cost reasons. It allows use of radar and auto pilot and wifi for a second screen.

 

[PaulNBriannaLynn]

We have two swim platforms, and a 5 hp Honda mounted to the starboard platform with an off the shelf bracket. It works well and doesn't interfere. I can even use that swim platform to stand on etc.

We're not far from you in Savannah. We have some great boating opportunities, and its a unique area. One thing I've found really useful is a good chartplotter. We had an older Furuno for a while and it did the job ok. I didn't know what I was missing. Our new Garmin with updated coastal charts is really helpful navigating the shoals and sandbars around the intercoastal and tidal creeks along our coast. It can get really shallow out of no where. It's really took a lot of the stress out of exploring.

I'm in the non-radar camp. We used to live and boat in the Pacific Northwest and there was really a need for it there. Heck some years the entire month of "foggust" was socked in. Fog is not nearly as much of a concern for me here in these waters. I've seen a handful of foggy mornings in the past couple of years, but nothing like most of the rest of the country. As for thunderstorms, we know they are coming. There's weather service warnings a day ahead of time, and we can get to safety.

One thing that I'm really thankful for is our generator. We keep it in the under sink cabinet and when we've needed it, we really needed it! Its also provides a huge sense of security and feeling of self reliance. We like to anchor out and explore the remote barrier islands, and I don't have to worry about running my batteries down. I can fire up our Honda 2000, and charge everything back up, and our cell phones too. The 1000 watt would have been fine for the boat, but we also use it as an emergency generator at home for storms too. Best $900 I've ever spent for the boat.

If your boat doesn't have a cooking stove, we bought a inexpensive butane single burner stove on Amazon for under $40. It is really efficient and has been working well for us.

That's my two cents worth.

 

[ssobol]

...One thing that I'm really thankful for is our generator. We keep it in the under sink cabinet and when we've needed it, we really needed it! Its also provides a huge sense of security and feeling of self reliance. We like to anchor out and explore the remote barrier islands, and I don't have to worry about running my batteries down. I can fire up our Honda 2000, and charge everything back up, and our cell phones too. The 1000 watt would have been fine for the boat, but we also use it as an emergency generator at home for storms too. Best $900 I've ever spent for the boat. ... .

I have a Honda 1000. It is only necessary for 120 vac when at anchor (to run an AC unit). I found that running the boat motor is much better at charging the batteries than the generator. I can get around 25 amps into the battery from the motor. I have dual batteries (one house, one start). Normally only one battery is used, the other is saved for engine starting. It's been awhile since I've carried the generator onboard.

In normal use when anchored out (even with the refrigerator running on DC) If necessary I just run the boat motor for about 20-30 minutes before bed at about 1000 rpm to charge up the battery for the night. Having a battery monitor is useful if you live off the batteries routinely.

One advantage of two swim steps is you can put the generator on one and still be able to get on/off the boat using the other.

 

[little wing]

1st: VHF w/DSC. If something happens to you and you are incapacitated, does your crew know how to operate the boat and get you to help and/or safety? It gives me great peace of mind knowing that when I stroke out or fall overboard, my wife merely needs to lift that little lid, push the red button, and help will arrive.

2nd: Binoculars.

3rd: Chart plotter. It does not need to be costly. Do you have a tablet and/or smart phone? For $15, Navionics is a great deal. Covers all of US and Canada. Add the cost of a RAM mount to put it where you want it.

4th: Sonar. We usually anchor out every night. That fish finder will tell you what's under you (rocks, weeds, logs, etc) as well as how much rode to let out.

Radar: So far it seems to be more of a distraction as I pay too much attention to it trying to learn the ins and outs of its operation that I ignore my surroundings. However, in the first and only summer of use, there was a trip on the St Clair river, frequented by lake freighters, when it downpoured. Couldn't see squat. I was glad to have it then. As I did another time in a remote part of the North Channel when we were fogged in one morning. However, that time we sat on the hook until it cleared. Maybe the best use so far is to see what's coming up behind you, especially running narrow passages. I don't like close in surprise passings.

 

[ssobol]

... However, in the first and only summer of use, there was a trip on the St Clair river, frequented by lake freighters, when it downpoured. Couldn't see squat. I was glad to have it then... .

In my neck of the woods summer downpours are intense but don't last very long. Last time I was caught in one, I just cut the motor and drifted until the downpour ended (about 20 minutes). There was another boat out there with me who did the same thing. Even then, visibility was still about 100 yds. Since I was in shallow water (~4 ft) I was not worried about some big boat coming through that I couldn't see.

 

[colbysmith]

Since I was in shallow water (~4 ft) I was not worried about some big boat coming through that I couldn't see.

It's not always so much the big boats I'm worried about, but the yahoos in the fast fishing boats or speed boats that worry me!

 

[thataway]

Really heavy downpours and even "White squalls" can produce enough droplet interference, that the radar is very limited in its range. In one case, with very heavy winds, we found a marker at the edge of the channel, and basically put the boat right behind it--to maintain position--radar would have been in-adequate. So consider alternatives, if the radar is obscured by heavy rain, or waves where the tops are blow off regularly.

 

[Snider]

I'm with you Colby. It's the careless and drunk small boats that worry me. As it gets warm in Charleston they come out, especially on the weekend. Some intoxicated boater set 3 boats adrift in Shem creek last weekend. It's a popular spot with several restaurants off the harbor, you'll see boats tied 3 or 4 deep. Apparently he was ready to leave and just let the other boats go before the bus boy/?dockhand could get ahold of the short dock-lines. I'd never dock in that manner, no way.

I joined a local boating group on FB and am constantly surprised by the immature comments from those with too much money (and boat) and not enough sense. We'll be running a lot at night, probably the best thing I could do is get a few big deck lights to turn on. It got hairy a few times under sail at night because we don't run a forward facing white light, just a red and green. Not sure if we weren't seen or just passed a little to closely.

I'm trying to keep the boat simple and clean. This has been a great thread. I think eventually a nice multifunction display that can run everything I may want in the future will be a nice upgrade, something like the 9" simrad (Go9 XSE / NSS evo3, can't really figure out the difference) would be the ultimate upgrade along with a nicer VHF.

I bought one of those Westinghouse 2500 generators from Home Depot last year. That's a great idea about using one of the swim platforms for the generator. I'd love to figure out a little AC that was portable and didn't require any holes in the boat, of course we could only use it when anchored.

snobol what ac do you run off the 1,000watt honda? (I was curious because I figured it was lighter and quieter than mine, but actually the noise level is about the same and mine only weighs 10lbs more.) Still interested in your AC unit though, it can be mighty hot here in the summer nights.

 

[Snider]

Hardee,

Whats the difference in the 506 vs the 605. Warmart has the 605 for $446, there's so many variations its a little confusing. ICOM really needs a "compare" feature on their website, and so does Simrad. Also does either one of them have built in gps (or is that what GNSS is)? Would be nice not to need to mount an antenna.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Icom-M60511- ... S/40629659

Hi Brandon, Welcome and Congrats on the new C-Dory. You are going to love it. Yes, upgrade that VHF. Look at the ICOM M-506 with AIS receive. Much the same features as the Standard Horizon EXCEPT it also has a last call 2 minute record feature. Super valuable (IMHO) for monitoring ch 16 especially, unless you have instant recall and fast fingures to take notes.

I too am a total believer in radar, along with (at least) AIS receive capability.

And a hand held VHF is just a good safety feature to have on your pfd.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[journey on]

Just a word about radar: is it "necessary". And my answer is NO.

Before radar, and I remember that, when it was dark, foggy or really raining you couldn't see what was around you. And a lot of ferrys went aground trying to keep to their schedule. So radar came to the civilian market and (mostly) stopped that nonsense.

And now radar has come to the small boat market. In consonance with GPS/chartplotters it allows C-Dorys to safely navigate when there is no visibility.

So, is it necessary? On a C-Dory, you always have a choice: stay where you are or GO. We used to navigate under the visual rules and that kept us out of trouble; we could see or we stayed put. And a few times we got caught out.

We got radar in the early 90's, on a sailboat we were cruising. That let us go when there was no visibility and we got used to that so we still have radar.

But is it a necessity for small boat cruising? No! You always have the alternative to stay put. And invest that $2000 in something else, such as gas. But if you can't see, stay put. Unlike that guy and his buddy who came up from Seattle to Friday Harbour in a dense fog without any visibility; stupidity is still stupidity.

Boris

 

[Snider]

Thanks for the thoughts. I went into WM today just to see what they had on display. I really like the small clean look of the Simrad Go7xse. It doesn’t have the ability to add radar anyway. I may just go with it, plus it won’t break the bank.

 

[ssobol]

... I bought one of those Westinghouse 2500 generators from Home Depot last year. That's a great idea about using one of the swim platforms for the generator. I'd love to figure out a little AC that was portable and didn't require any holes in the boat, of course we could only use it when anchored.

snobol what ac do you run off the 1,000watt honda? (I was curious because I figured it was lighter and quieter than mine, but actually the noise level is about the same and mine only weighs 10lbs more.) Still interested in your AC unit though, it can be mighty hot here in the summer nights.

The AC unit I got was just whatever the smallest one WalMart was selling at the time. It's a 5000 Btu window unit and cost about $100. It fits in the center window (although I do have to unscrew the support strut). You just need to measure the window opening and find one that fits. An AC unit with mechanical controls is better than ones with digital controls in situations with unsteady power.

The AC unit sits on the floor in the berth area when not in use (by the porta-potti). The only issue is that the AC cannot really be used when moving. It is not really secured (just sits there) and blocks a lot of the view. I glued PVC runners on the bottom of the AC unit to get it to sit better in the window (does not rest directly on the window frame). Plus there are notches in the blocks to help hold it in place.

The generator sits on the swim step on a folding step stool (similar to https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E6MJGSA/re ... 1994205488) secured with a ratchet strap. The power from the gen just goes into the shore power inlet connector.

I seal the window gaps with pipe insulation. If you look through the C-Brat galleries you will see others who have done similar things for AC on their boats.

We use the AC unit more when in marinas. When anchored out, there is often enough breeze so the AC is not needed. Adding opening ports to the v-berth helps (another very good mod). Also, our boating area is farther north than you.