outside helms station add on

S

Stanley-J

New member
Does anyone know what it would cost to add a outside helms station on my CD-25? Has anyone done it?
It would be extremely handy for single handling and while picking up pots.
 
I saw a new 25 at the dealers in Channel Islands that had the cockpit steering controls installed from the factory. The steering was located on the starboard side, against the cabin.
 
Just an idea here guys. What some people have done on other boats is to buy a wireless remote for their autopilot and to then add a throttle control some were in the cockpit. This is probably a lot cheaper and takes up less room.

Bill
 
Check out Snoopy-C. I did an outside helm. Added Seastar components for hydraulic steering inside and out, and then remoted my kicker by having EZ steer rod between the kicker and main. My remote controls only control the kicker shift/throttle, but the remote helm Seastar steers the main motor which controls the kicker with the EZ steer. cost for the entire setup was about $1000, with 2 helms, the hoses, and the teleflex hydraulic cylinder -- ebay costs. I remoted the Honda 8 HP for $100 parts to convert the tiller to remote controls, $40 for control cables, and $30 for a generic control box. Les Lampman from EQ Marine ordered the parts for the Honda kicker, when local Honda dealers said "it can't be done".IMG_0855.jpg
 
Stanley-J":1ra0btr4 said:
Does anyone know what it would cost to add a outside helms station on my CD-25? Has anyone done it?
It would be extremely handy for single handling and while picking up pots.
Click to expand...

Stanley,

Just about anything can be done (often with just a bunch of money); it's really a matter of deciding what you have to have, how you want to use it, what you're willing to alter and how much you're willing to spend.

If we're talking about a "real" second station (and not a remote on the autopilot or such) the the simplest form is to just bolt the hydraulic helm unit to the rear bulkhead and add some sort of remote control over on the side. This can be done elegantly as on Snoopy-C.

There are lots of hidden questions in this though. You're drilling a 3+ inch hole (can't remember the exact diameter) hole in the bulkhead and four mounting studs will project inside then you have to hook up three hoses; can you hide that or put up with it in the shower (if you do it on the starboard side)?

You could also make up a helm compartment (box) similar to the factory unit (fiberglass, plywood, StarBoard, etc) and mount the helm and controls there. Look in the Sea Skipper photo album and see if there are photos there of the factory rear helm (I can't remember).

The SeaStar steering on the CD25 uses something called outboard steering hoses; this doesn't relate to the outboard engine but rather that they're rated for "outboard" use...as in outside. They're pressure hoses with swaged ends. If you don't have an autopilot aboard they likely run unbroken from the back of the forward helm to the engine steering cylinder. If you add another helm you can't just cut the hoses and add a "T" so you need to decide whether to run all new correct length hoses (expensive) or run the new hoses forward to the forward helm and "T" there or to the stern and "T" there. You also need a third "balance line" between the forward and aft helm units but this can be Teleflex's nylon tubing.

If you're going to add engine controls to your rear helm station what engine are they going to be connected to? Main or kicker, or do you have twins? The answer to this question either makes this a fairly easy installation or a nightmare; it's rather easy if your controlling a kicker. It isn't easy at all if you're trying to control the main engine from the rear helm. To explain would take a LOT of typing so I'll watch for your answer here. If I don't get back to you very soon please contact me directly and I'll help you figure out your choices.
 
Thanks Les, that's a lot of good information. It gives me a chance to decide which way I may want to go, or weather to sick it all together. i do have twin Honda 75's so it may boiled down to a $ issue, being retired I have to really look at the cost verses the need.
 
Stanley-J,

I had the Teleflex electronic dual controls installed on my boat. As Les mentions, you would need full controls like this to cover all speeds and situatons possible. However, many ppl are happy with a remote autopilot control if all you need is steering while trolling, etc..

I think Dive-Cat had a "jogging" control piped into the aft transom. Doing that would probably not require replacing all the existing hoses.

I wanted the aft controls for both trolling and docking, so I felt the extra cost was worth it. I asked myself," Which would you use more often, Radar or a second steering station?" The steering station won out. I have added radar since then, though.

In the past, I've had many times coming into the dock in adverse conditions in my other boats. Frequently single handing, the aft controls are a dramatic improvement!

John
 
Stanley-J":3asxrau7 said:
Thanks Les, that's a lot of good information. It gives me a chance to decide which way I may want to go, or weather to sick it all together. i do have twin Honda 75's so it may boiled down to a $ issue, being retired I have to really look at the cost verses the need.
Click to expand...

Ok...as I said earlier the steering situation isn't too difficult and the cost is perhaps in the $500 to $800 range depending on some of the choices and how it gets mounted.

With twin engines though engine controls at the stern station are tough. None of the major manufacturers (Teleflex, Morse, Uflex, etc) make dual engine, single-lever, dual-function controllers for dual stations. What you have now is one lever that controls shift and throttle (dual functions) for one engine; you just have two of them side-by-side for your two engines. You need another controller just like that at the rear helm station...only that doesn't work. The reason it doesn't work is because of the internal way that dual function levers operate and the resistance they have to moving when it's attempted from an external location. [Single lever, single function controls work fine and this is what's installed on larger boats; there is one lever for shifting and another for throttle. But when you have twin engines that means one dual controller for thottle and one dual controller for shift; or four levers total. There's not room for that on the CD25.]

I did find one company in British Columbia by the name of Kobelt that makes high-end semi-custom controls for a lot of the boat builders in that part of the world. Those are the units we chose for Dive Cat. The second station helm is really just a slave unit; the shift and throttle cables go from the main station to the engines as usual and then the second station is slaved to the main station with pull-pull cables (it's only job is to control the main station which in turn controls the engines).

The only other option (that I'm aware of) is to use electronic controllers. They work well and the installation of additional controllers is easy once the main units are installed. The major downsides are cost and the space needed for the actuators and components. Oh yeah, and they're expensive (oops...said that already, but they are).

I'm pretty inventive and I try to find realtivley inexpensive off-the-shelf solutions when at all possible but with twins on the tail I really can't come up with an easy way to control them (shift and throttle) from two locations without some expensive parts (from memory the Kobelt controllers would be in the $2000 range; the electronic controls double that). Doing it the simplest way I know how adding a full second station would run $2500 to $3000 not including a custom cabinet or such. And not including labor if you chose to have the work performed by someone else as I'm assuming this would be a DIY project. Careful shopping might bring the price down some but they're pretty specialized parts.
 
drjohn71a":319gk2g0 said:
I think Dive-Cat had a "jogging" control piped into the aft transom. Doing that would probably not require replacing all the existing hoses.
Click to expand...

That joystick back aft controls the autopilot course computer directly; so if there isn't an autopilot about it's a no go. Really, it's just another form of remote control for the A/P; it just as easily could have been a handheld remote but in this case the joystick made more sense (harder to lose it!).

I find using an autopilot for steeing when trolling works well and I've been happy with it. But, Stanley said he wanted the second station for "single handing" (which I assume relates to docking) and while picking up pots. Remote control on the A/P for this is useless. These scenarios really require a full second station.
 
Les,
I am following this thread on a second steering station and I have a related question. My CD-25 has a Honda 135 with honda dual function control. I would love to convert it to single function - one lever for throttle and one lever for transmission. Any simple fix for this?
Thanks, David
 
Lucky Day":1xl5lp9i said:
Les,
I am following this thread on a second steering station and I have a related question. My CD-25 has a Honda 135 with honda dual function control. I would love to convert it to single function - one lever for throttle and one lever for transmission. Any simple fix for this?
Thanks, David
Click to expand...

David,

This is an easy one (thanks! :teeth ). Just remove the current remote controller from its present location next to the helm seat and disconnect the shift and throttle cables (and the tilt/trim connector). Enlarge the hole in the cabinet to match the new dual level single function controller (make sure you leave enough room next to the helm seat and don't get to close to the cabin side). Reconnect the shift and throttle cables, drop the new controller in the hole, fasten it down and you're good to go.

You will have to do something with the trim/tilt pigtail since I'm not aware of any dual lever single fuction controllers that have trim switches (but do look around on the 'net as things change quickly). But as an alternative you can find a convenient location (on the dash, next to the remote, wherever) to install a single pole double throw toggle or rocker switch for engine trim/tilt (make it a 15-amp model); make sure it's "momentary on-off-momentary on" and change the green and blue wires as necessary to get the switch and motor going the same direction (that is...up is up, and down is down).

There are a some subtle things to fret over but not much; for one the cable ends need to be adjusted properly for shift and throttle rest positions but I can help with that if you decide to tackle the change.
 
Once again...Les always comes through. Too bad other dealers aren't as helpful. Thanks Les......Whenever possible I send people your way cause you do have the solutions and are helpful. My kicker 2nd helm setup works just fine for me, and your assistance in getting the parts for my kicker to convert it to remote made the difference. Ron
 
digger":m6hmdqcj said:
Once again...Les always comes through. Too bad other dealers aren't as helpful. Thanks Les......Whenever possible I send people your way cause you do have the solutions and are helpful. My kicker 2nd helm setup works just fine for me, and your assistance in getting the parts for my kicker to convert it to remote made the difference. Ron
Click to expand...

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the kind words :oops: and the referals. I'm happy to hear things worked out well and you did an outstanding job on the installation...thanks for the photos.

In other dealer's defense; not all of the folks that might be on a forum or anwering the phone have (or have had) the opportunity to spend so much time in the shop; and the shop folks that have the knowledge you're not likely to see on a forum or get them on the phone. There are a few of us old-time hands-on small guys out there that just have a love for what we do but there are a lot of places just trying to make a living and are pretty stratified. I think it's a rare dealer that just doesn't care at all; most just don't take the time to learn.
 
I love my rear helm

The cost for me was high but worth it

$2000 for the factory installed steering station
$8000 parts and labor for two front and two rear Morse elect thottles (two engines!)
probably would be 1/2 for one one engine

go to my "ShirleyMae" album to see one sweet setup rear helm

Dick
 
Back
Top