Pain free insulation solution

seabeagle":sftzv4fy said:
I refuse to believe that a 40 mil coat has an R-11 value. If this were true, 4 coats would have insulated the walls in my house. :|
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The gentleman who markets the Delta T out of Seattle is actually insulating an addition to his house by spraying it right over the sheetrock; he must be getting it a cost. Best upgrade I have done to the boat, will be applying a latex topcoat this summer.
 
Hey Seabeagle, how you folks doing?

I agree with the skepticism about the R values quoted... Also, their literature has some contradictions.. They say 50% to 80% sound reduction and then also say that is 1 to 3 dB...

Now, having expressed my reservations I actually hope their claims are met as they would be a massive improvement in time and cost for insulation and sound deadening in many, many applications...

cheers...

denny, char, and Pasta
BTW Levitation has been christened Charlotte Ann
 
Ya'all can debate the R values all you want, all I know is that we've been enjoying a much more comfortable boat for the last six years :) There are many ways to insulate a boat, all good, I started this thread to present one option I found in my quest to an insulation solution that didn't involve scissors or glue.

the voices in my head don't alloe me to have scissors
 
Levitation":2yar85zg said:
Hey Seabeagle, how you folks doing?

Also, their literature has some contradictions.. They say 50% to 80% sound reduction and then also say that is 1 to 3 dB...

denny, char, and Pasta
BTW Levitation has been christened Charlotte Ann
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The sound reduction on Triple J was huge, at cruising speed the motor is just a quiet hum now. The amazing part was I only sprayed half way down the rear cabin wall. I think a lot of noise reverberated through the roof and that got three heavy coats.
 
Hey Levitation, been fine over here except for the cold. I had a thought of having an insulation company spray a half inch or so of foam in the inside and then paint it. R-value, sound deadening, and flotation in case of submersion. Think it will work?
 
Questions: B~C you said you covered it w/ Zolatone. Which one? How did you apply it? I see it's basically a water based paint and says it must be sprayed on. Why did you choose that particular product?

I think we're gonna start w/ the entire V-berth area and go from there. I'd like to cover it in a "splatter" type of paint to match the original as closed as possible.

Of course it needs to warm up a bit here first and if the rain stopped, I wouldn't complain either.
 
hey there, I was going to use zolatone but decided against it, I went with an interior paint that matched the factory off white color. the zolotaone would have left me with a multicolor interior
 
hey there, I was going to use zolatone but decided against it, I went with an interior paint that matched the factory off white color.
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Me too. I used a high quality acrylic latex paint. It matches the factory colour very closely. As I did the entire interior of the boat cabin I would bet no one can tell the difference from the factory paint. 4 years later it doesn't show any wear outside of normal.

The Mascoat insulation is something that I believe has made a significant different to cool weather comfort. We have very little condensation now and I believe that the boat is warmer. Its very tough to get accurate measurements of the before and after difference because there is just too many variables. Your results may be different but I'd do it again. Its a lot of work but worth it in my opinion if you boat in cool/cold climates.

Ron
 
Like an interior house paint? :?

Rolling something on would be MUCH less messy than spraying, although I may just bite the bullet, mask off the entire V-berth and spray insulation & paint in one crack.
 
I used Sherwin-Williams' All-surface Oil-based Enamel over my spray-on insulation and like it quite well. It's tough stuff and the surface is easy to clean. As part of the boat redo, I'll spray on several more coats of Mascoat insulation in the cabin and top off with some more of the enamel.
 
Before you paint over Delta T I recommend you call or email Richard Stratton with Mascoat, I am pretty sure he recommends using latex based interior paint not oil based..but could be wrong on that.

Also, if you have specific questions regarding R value or understanding the thermodynamics or their products he’s the guy to talk to.

Richard (Dick) Stratton
> Tel: 425.785.0902
RichardS@Latitude47.com
 
I contacted Richard via e-mail last night;
I got your info from a C-Dory boat owners group, the C-Brats. I am interested in your spray on Marine DTM insulated coating.
What size cans do you sell? I'm primarily starting w/ the V-berth area.
What spay gun do you recommend & do you sell them? (I have a nice compressor system w/ filters etc installed in my garage, so I'm looking to spray it on.
What do you recommend for a topcoat?
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He returned my e-mail this a.m.
Your group probably can advise thickness based on their use of the coating in the area. I'd suggest using at least 2 coats for your application, preferable 3 coats of 20 mils each (0.020") if you're also topcoating with a washable acrylic latex. Many builders in the area use 4 coats for the standard application spec for Alaska service. I sell the coating in 5 gallon pails and a gallon covers 50 square feet at 20 mils. The cost is $60/gallon. I can supply a small applicator gun for $35 that uses about 40 PSI.
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I'm moving forward. I just need to estimate how much I'll need for the entire front V-berth. Any estimates from you experienced users? I think I'll even open up the area under the berth, pull the foam, install 3 hatches and spray that stuff in there too.
 
I used the entire 5 gallons, wish I had a gallon or two more but 5 gallons did the trick but that was for the cabin and v birth on a 22. Don’t spray it on too thick, it’s kind of hard to tell but try not to anyways. When your goggles get covered it’s hard to see much of anything.
The hard part is getting the Delta T from the can into the spray bottle; at least it was for me. I ended up using a funnel and a cup to pour it in, than used a stick to plunge it down through the funnel.
I also had to thin it a bit but not much, and also opened the spray nozzle up to almost wide open.
To smooth out the rough spots a green scotch brite pad and water worked great, but don’t wait too long.
If you get too far away from the surface you’ll get spatter that will feel like 20 grit sandpaper when it dried..Hence the scotch brite pad.
 
I used five gallons on the cabin from anchor locker to cockpit. I was impressed by how much it helped, but wish it had been thicker. I got little square dry sample from my supplier that I'm guessing was about .040 or so. The five gallon spraying didn't come near that. When I'm ready to spray again it'll get at least ten more gallons. I'm tempted to try out one of the microsphere additives this time. One of the vendors' Web presence seems a tad negative, but there are more now for me to check out. Maybe there'll be some at the Baltimore boat show tomorrow.
 
Well, Richard said he/they only sell it in 5 gallong buckets, but from reading your posts, it doesn't appear to be a problem. I guess I'll have to consider covering the cabin ceiling, walls and inside the cabinets. Much bigger job and a PIA to mask... :x
 
Luckily, at this point my cabin is devoid of everything, including windows. I won't let this opportunity to more thoroughly insulate pass me by...
 
OK, I've finally took the time to read everything on the Mascoat website and kinda understand how it can reflect heat. But no mention of reflecting cold. Plus, the crappy wallpaper in my house had nearly a -10db effect until I removed it to find even crappier walls. 3 coats of midgrade paint gave at least -3db back. In another room, a hand mudded texture coat with paint removed all echoes period. I guess what I'm seeing is an expensive way to do common things without having the ability to keep my boat warmer from the cold of the water. Judging by the brat map, most of us have issues with the cold. I would imagine that it could reflect heat back inside the boat but, an ounce of heat in an ocean of cold will always loose. I've read the happy posts with it's benifits and can't speak for what they have witnessed. But, I also think of my boss who travels to Mexico constantly and tells me how its's the best place in the world, how its decreped streets and dirt floor restaurants are so cool, how may times he's seen and had to pay off the Federales with the machine guns, how little kids will snap an instant picture of him and say "I need 10 dollars for this picture or my papa will beat me", how many times he's returned home with Montezuma's revenge, how you're safe as long as you don't leave the resort compound, and take only the shuttle bus straight from the compound to the airport, how you can walk the streets of the local town as long as it's light out and you stay away from the major highways, and someday he's going to retire there. Seriously, all of this in the same story. It's like vacationing in Detroit in August. The point is, I'm not impressesd at that price. If the 2,3,or 4 coats had the final cost of coverage like a $30.00 a gallon paint, I'd be interested. Please don't think I'm causing trouble but, sometimes I feel that the emperor doesn't doesn't have any clothes. However, on the lighter side of truly space-age insulation, read up on this link about Aerogel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel I saw a hands on demonstration of this some time back. It is utterly mindblowingly amazing and uber-expensive.
 
I would recommend painting it on as it is a lot less messy. We used a 4" disposable brush. Don't have the drips as mentioned earlier and works all the same. Know of three boats sprayed on and one painted including second coat on mine by painting. Have not noticed a noise reduction but the condensation problem has all but gone away. Good stuff!!!
 
seabeagle":ypsu3s38 said:
OK, I've finally took the time to read everything on the Mascoat website and kinda understand how it can reflect heat. But no mention of reflecting cold. <stuff clipped>
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Cold is the absence of heat (energy) just like dark is the absence of light (another form of energy). A mirror reflects light but doesn't reflect "dark" so I'm not sure I understand your logic here. I too am a bit skeptical of the high R-values for such a thin layer though. However, the silica and glass bead should definitely lower the thermal conductivity which will lower the rate of heat transfer from the inside of the boat to the ocean of cold surrounding it.
 
...but the condensation problem has all but gone away...
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THAT is what I'm looking for. I'm realistic: I fully realize that .060" of spray on "insulation" is not going to retain heat while bobbing in 52F water like some R13 home insulation would. It's apples vs oranges. I could use spray on 3M contact adhesive & carpeting, but the tendency for carpet to mildew is the main issue why I dislike this idea. I could use the glue on foam strips like noted above; but what the finished product would look like, I can only imagine.

Spraying on this product is the neatest, cleanest option to me. Meredith and I dislike waking up to a humid, dripping "rain-forrest" w/ nearly everything in the boat damp, especially when it's wet ENOUGH here already. :roll: :thdown

Yep, it's gonna be a REAL PIA that I don't look forward to starting. Although being able to paint over it with something that would match the stock white/beige splatter would be ideal, I guess I'll settle for a nice, smooth, clean finish that eliminates the condensation.
 
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