Performance Differences between C-22 and C-25

Foggy":2pgj2608 said:
I realize many C-Dorys have successfully made many open water passages
and I'll bet my bongles the weather was mild/moderate, w/o significant head
seas or the crew later vowed never to do that again....
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We are a little overconfident with our 25. I don't run offshore to chase Tuna like some of my southern neighbors but do not hesitate to get out in bad weather that most stay home in. The key is keeping it slow and going with those with sea legs and stomachs. A deep V would be nice but unless you double the hull weight cutting through any seas is not easy! That is where the 25 likely outperforms by having more weight than the 22.
 
Hey Chuck, This was only started yesterday, and I got busy working on the boat. Hope you weren't holding your breath :wink:

22 vs 25, WOW. A new one to add to the list -- twins vs single and Inny vs outty. I like diversity oh, and did I mention double dulpicit redundancy :?:

All good info so far. Best -- go find a 22 and a 25 to get a ride on.You have to get how they feel. The 22 has a "one butt hall way", the 25 has a shower and head. On the 22 one or two can put it on like a favorite slipper, the 25 a hot shower and "nukked" cinnibun for breakfast is easy.

You really need to try them both on.

I have had my 22 in big water on plenty of occasions.
>6-8 ft plus following seas -- Strait of Georgia (my first big wave experience on the 22).
>4-6 ft head seas, about 3 hours worth, Knight Inlet (side by side with a CD-25). A lot of hobby horsing, low speed, over steep short coupled waves.
>4-6 ft mostly beam seas, taken on the fore quarter, Juan de Fuca
>3 - 5 ft mixed, both head seas and following depending on the place and time, San Francisco Bay and Western Delta with a mix of 22 and 25 D-Dorys.

In none of these occasions did I feel unsafe or in jeopardy. Are they comfortable, no, not necessarily, but the boat will handle them. I am generally by myself, so I don't have another "stomach" to consider.

Do I think the 25 is a better boat? The point was made, length makes the difference. I think length and weight can make a difference, but if you are buying a boat, you should have your planned use in mind, AND, you should try it out. Try it on for size, for practicality and ability.

Buy what you want, it will be cheaper than buying and then changing in a couple of years, BUT, nothing is permanent, you can change if the situation warrants.

Best, Oh and always consider twins :lol:

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Harvey summed it up nicely, as have many others. It really boils down to your own personality and what your comfort level is. Strictly performance, I believe both boats handle about the same. Individually depends upon the outboard you put on them as well. I found on our Alaska cruise, that we both got pretty much the same fuel efficiency at displacement speed. The 25 has a little more than twice the fuel capacity, so of course it can go at least twice as far between fill ups. At planing speeds, you are looking at a little less efficiency in the 25.
We have also been talking a lot about comfort in this thread. Some enjoy tent camping, some enjoy a big roomy RV with all the comforts. My wife is ok with our porta potty, and we manage to slide by each other in the boat. And we're not exactly small people! Water can be heated on a stove if the camp shower bags don't get it hot enough. However, my wife will not use a female urinal or 5 gal bucket with a bag in it. She has her limits! :mrgreen: I have taken 3-5 others out on the boat, but not for long cruises. We all manage and enjoy the time.
However, there are some more aspects you may want to consider. This morning my wife and I were talking about if we would ever upgrade to the 25 someday. We trailer a lot. We just had Blue Days (a 25) spend two days with us, and it was the first time my wife got to see how they get on and off their boat on the trailer. Every 25 I've traveled with, also carry a step ladder to get on and off their boat. My wife and I just step on the trailer wheel fender and swing our legs over the gunnel. As Rosanne asked me this morning, so we'd have to load our cooler, and all our gear up a ladder and then over the splash well or gunnel? The 25 will require you to lift gear a lot higher to get it in the boat, if you do it while it's trailered.
Again, it really comes down to how you plan to use the boat, how many will be traveling with you, and for how long. How often are you going to be "boaterhoming". For us, the 22 fits our uses quite well and as Tom said in the beginning, we are quite happy with our little boat. Yet, there are others the are happy in their CD16 or 19. And I'll be the first to envy the improved comforts in the 25. But at higher maintenance and operating costs.
Anyway, just a few more cents of my thoughts. Colby
 
Getting gear aboard: A 4 step ladder will work on the the swim platform, especially with a small stepping stool...no climbing over the trailer however. We carry a longer ladder for both getting on and off the bow at a launch ramp. I back the trailer down to near the water, and Marie takes it the rest of the way while I drive the boat off. We get most of supplies aboard easily using the ladder--did on both the 22 and 25. For heavy objects there is the davit hoist--used regularly for the dinghy as well as the freezer etc--but we are "older".
 
Thanks for the tip, I never thought about how borrowing my brothers generator would give us hot water at anchor.
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Hey, you guys that do this, I have a question. First, the context of the question. We like to anchor, and usually only go to a marina every 4 days or so. We have a water heater, but essentially we never use it. We have a Honda 2000i we use for 30-45 minutes both in the morning and at night to keep the batteries up (we keep a refer going all the time, and often run the Wabasco diesel heater).

So my question.....I find the resource I run out of most quickly while cruising is water (ever since I got a Yeti cooler that is....used to be ice). So if you take showers, even quickie showers, don't you run out of water pretty quickly?

P.S. We take "wash cloth" showers at the galley sink with hot water heated by a stove -- takes about 1 pint of water each (well, maybe a quart for my wife :wink:). Then a marina shower, with near endless water, very 4 days or so to reset the "grunge factor" back to zero. We often need to fill the water tank every 4 or 5 days; so we have to find a marina anyway.
 
Rainman makes a portable watermaker a Honda 2000 will run, a very simple to use system.
I am in the process of adding a Spectra Ventura built in watermaker in the space our old water heater was in before we installed the more compact Bosch below the galley sink. Our 03 CD 25 has a water tank forward that we checked useable capacity at 18 gallons. When we are at anchor we use both salt and tank water and use about 18 gallons of fresh water every 6 days if we are careful. The Spectra should easily net about 12 gallons every 2 days using our lightweight solar system that powers the whole boat including the little Engle freezer. I don't plan on taking our Honda 2000 any more as we can live without the water heater when anchored out in Baja. We also use a waterless composting head to eliminate the weight of the holding tank aft.
Some photos in our Sierra album.
 
smckean (Tosca)":1nr93xjg said:
Thanks for the tip, I never thought about how borrowing my brothers generator would give us hot water at anchor.
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Hey, you guys that do this, I have a question. First, the context of the question. We like to anchor, and usually only go to a marina every 4 days or so. We have a water heater, but essentially we never use it. We have a Honda 2000i we use for 30-45 minutes both in the morning and at night to keep the batteries up (we keep a refer going all the time, and often run the Wabasco diesel heater).

So my question.....I find the resource I run out of most quickly while cruising is water (ever since I got a Yeti cooler that is....used to be ice). So if you take showers, even quickie showers, don't you run out of water pretty quickly?

P.S. We take "wash cloth" showers at the galley sink with hot water heated by a stove -- takes about 1 pint of water each (well, maybe a quart for my wife :wink:). Then a marina shower, with near endless water, very 4 days or so to reset the "grunge factor" back to zero. We often need to fill the water tank every 4 or 5 days; so we have to find a marina anyway.
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We could go at least 5 days before needing water, and that is showering every other day, sponge bathing on the alternate days. The sprayer (shower) on the 25 can be very conservative. We also used a solar shower (sitting on the cabin top, just above the window in the head, water tube run through the window), either a 5 gallon or 2.5. The solar shower doesn't give as much pressure as the shower in the 25, but with the solar shower and a 5 gallon fresh water jug, we could go maybe 8 - 10 days before needing water.

We put a ball valve on the water line to the toilet and used gray water to flush if really being conservative.

It was rare that we needed to go that long between marina visits.
 
Thanks JamesTXSD and Micahbigsur,

Then I have further queries (to you or anyone else). I'm not sure why we seem to be using our 20 gallons of water so much faster than you.

How do you wash dishes? Maybe that's it. So far we use fresh water for that, and even as careful as we try to be, rinsing seems to use a lot of water.

On the face of it, we should use even less water than you since we don't take showers at all, and since our boat has the marine head removed and replaced with a port-a-potti (we fill the port-a-potti tank from separate water jugs). We can't really use a sun-shower here in the NW (except mid-summer maybe). We just returned from 10 days in the San Juan and Gulf Islands and only had sun 3 days (plus lots of rain!).

I once checked into getting a watermaker to solve this "problem", but cheapest I could find was $3000 to $4000. That was a non-starter for me (tho I can see the expense if I took long cruises in locations like Baja).
 
How do you rinse your dishes, etc.?

If you use running water supplied by an electric pump, you'll use a lot more than if using a foot pump with which you can deliver as little as you can get by with.

The early CD-22 Cruisers had an electric pump hat was soon replaced by a foot pump for that very reason, water conservation.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
There are a number of options on water conservation--for instance the boat I grew up on only had one gallon Clorox jugs repurposed for water. Salt water to wash the dishes, and salt water to bathe in. On one of the boats I raced on, we had 50 gallons of water, 10 man crew and 15 days to reach Hawaii--still had some water left over. Salt water even to wash the teeth. Even with a water maker, on our large cruising boats we had a raw water (sea water) pressurized system, including a galley salt water tap.

You can bathe and rinse in salt water, and brush the salt off. We did this for years.

In "conservation mode" we use a minimum water when doing dishes--for example we clean the major of debris off the plates with our napkins, which are then thrown away. A small amount of hot water is put into the glass, with soap--then the handiwipe and soap washes all of the other dishes. Next, the soapy water is poured over the other dishes, and that glass well drained. The glass is filled with fresh hot water, and then slowly worked around that glass, then poured onto the next dish carefully to rinse all surfaces, including where the silverware sits. A second rinse is all that is necessary to get all free of soap. If we use a quart total, that would be a lot.

Shower--get the cloth wet, work the soap into it, and onto the body. A couple of quarts of water judiciously used will be adequate to rinse. Even with a pressure water system, we never let the water "run". If you want to "stand under the shower"--water will go very quickly.

We used less than 2 full water tanks during our last 3 weeks on the water. Probably 3 of the "drinking" water 6 gallon containers...

Drinking water--we have a "back up" supply, of 6 gallons in a blue plastic container. This is filtered thru a Brita filter, and is put into re-usable water bottles, which are kept cool in the refrigerator or freezer (the warmer section, over the compressor).

I have been amazed with our new Bosch 2.5 gallon water heater. There is only about a foot of hose between its outlet and galley faucet. If we have heated water at night, it is still warm enough in the AM for dishes--but in 15 minutes it will be hot again, if we are running the generator. I had the thermostat set too high--it was too hot to be comfortable on hands, but the idea was it would mix with cold in the "mixing valve" in the shower.
 
We tend to use paperware for our dishes. Saves washing up water. Also, choose what you cook. Some dishes make more of a mess than others. For instance, cooking a steak requires much less clean up than making spaghetti sauce.
 
". . . Also, choose what you cook. Some dishes make more of a mess than others."
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Definitely. 1 paper towel and 1 knife, makes 2 sandwiches. 2 Tuna fish packets. Cleanup is wipe the knife with the paper towel, soap on finger, wipe knife, 3 second splash of water, wipe with a clean corner of the paper towel. Put knife on rack, paper towel into tuna foil packets after they have been rinsed overboard, and then one folded into the other. The cabbage or Jicama are just put back into the cooler (Hold). The electric water pump is the enemy of water conservation.

When traveling up north (Broughtons especially) garbage is really hard to get rid of so, meal planning is based around not having much left in the way of scrap or packaging waste.

Another thing that is helpful for hand wash especially is the Clorox wipes in the tall round plastic containers. Works for hand and face wash and can substitute for a sponge bath. The wipes are then dried and used for cleaning on the boat.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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smckean... You ask in what way we used our tank water. We are both old school where many boats had salt water foot pumps. One of our first projects in our 25 was to add a sink in the head and then plumb both the galley and head with salt water foot pumps. We also added a hand pump with a 40 micron filter to have better control of fresh water use in the galley, finally we took out the factory fresh water pressure 4 "piston" pump and put in a lower pressure 3 piston pump which is much more able to control water use. Whenever we are anchored in good clean water we always wash our dishes and hands with salt water, the dishes may get a very sparing fresh rinse.
But even with all this we may need to go 2 or 3 weeks without filling the water tank hence the need (not old school!) For the watermaker, but old habits die hard and we always conserve.
In one of my early boats we made a 52 day Pacific passage with a crew of 6 and a 100 gallon tank. We conserved water and also used saltwater, caught some rain water and ended up with 40 gallons left at landfall.
 
I have just reviewed this thread. I did not see any mention of another consideration in comparing the 22 and 25: the comparative ease of launching and retrieving.

This, of course, favors the 22 because of its smaller size and weight.

We have a 22, which sits on a trailer when it is not being used. I am approaching 78, but I can launch and retrieve it (single-handed, in most instances), with ease. I doubt I could do that with a 25(?).
 
Wayne makes a VERY good point. My 22 was like launching a retrieving a john boat. My 26 is much more weight and the trailer is much longer and everything takes more effort than the 22. This goes for towing as well...
 
localboy":1odq13ig said:
[
Amen. I’ve said it before: THE SHOWER AND WATER HEATER ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY. we run the genset during our runs and the water stays plenty hot to shower with later in the day. That way, by the time we anchor our water is heated and no one can complain about our genset. If we stay longer, I run it mid-day so as to not disturb folks when they are usually out and enjoying the afternoon adult beverage or bbqing etc. The porta-potty is a pia, IMO. Now I can pee almost anywhere. But The Admiral? :lol:
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Where do you put your genset while running?
 
To further Wayne McCown's comments on the ease of launching 22's versus 25's, here's a few thoughts.

First, lets admit that the 22 is easier to launch. Smaller and lighter is easier.

However, I'm 84 and can still launch the 25 in a reasonable way. Backing the boat down the ramp is the same for the 22 and 25, because the truck has power steering, power brakes and an auto trans. Now comes the differences.

First we only launch where there's a float next to the ramp where the boat can be easily moved from the trailer to the float. That's a stretch in San Diego Harbour; it takes a long rope, but it's doable. Climbing into the boat to power over to a float is pretty hard at my age. Next, I finally installed a power winch so I can power the boat both out and in from the trailer. And finally, I have a roller trailer which lets the boat roll off and more importantly, on. You do need more power to pull the boat out of the water and up the ramp, but the F-250 doesn't have 4 wheel drive nor diesel. It hasn't failed yet from Spanish, Canada to Ventura harbour.

So a 25 can be easily launched and retrieved but you have to put some thought into it. We've been doing it for 15 years.

Boris
 
Maybe I can offer a backpacking cooking class at a cbrats gathering after I get my boat. for those concerned about water, food, and cooking in small spaces. If you can carry ten days of food on your back and come back without dysentery and severe weight loss, the menu was a success! 😂. Seriously though, I have read that at displacement speeds some people are getting similar mileage in a 25 vs the 22. Did I read that wrong or is that accurate?

Nigel Dunn
 
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