Planning to convert to Electric over Hydraulic and discs?

M

Mike_J

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C Dory Year
2011
C Dory Model
22 Cruiser
Hull Identification Number
CMC22005A1111
Vessel Name
Natural C-lection
I am planning to take the CD22 and trailer in this week to get an electric over hydraulic conversion done - I am not happy with surge brakes!
I am looking at the Titan brakerite system.
I am also considering switching from drum brakes to disc brakes, though I am less sure of the benefits. If the electric/hydraulic system is compatible with both drum and disc brakes, I may just wait until the drum's need serious maintenance as the trailer is less than a year old.
 
I haven't used electric-over-hydraulic, and when I got my 22 Cruiser I "knew" that's what I wanted. However, the place that worked on my trailer had never installed them, and I wasn't too confident in them doing it for the first time (wise move, as it turned out), so I just went with new, disc brakes on both axles (with new lines, coupler, etc. as well). Then I somewhat nervously headed for the continental divide (would have preferred to have the E-O-H brakes first).

As it turned out, the trailer towed, slowed, and stopped beautifully. No problems in the mountains (I downshifted and used engine braking on the descents). Now, maybe E-O-H would have been even nicer, I don't know, but I have no complaints so far. So, I just wonder how much (if any) the drum brakes are contributing to your dislike of the surge brakes? Reading your post I found my self wondering how it would seem if you went to discs first and tried them out with the surge before adding the E-O-H. Of course there's nothing wrong with going all out either, and I'm sure they're fantastic.

Sunbeam
 
I converted to all electric as the EOH was a bit pricey. I keep the brakes clean and have had no problems. Howeve you can not go to disc with all electric. Using electric drums on just one axle has had no problem stopping with a Toyota Highlander. I do plan on installing electric on the other axle as well sometime this summer. I don't really think you need disc for stopping power on the lightweight Cd22. But I do hear they are nice and easier to maintain. Colby
 
You are going to get all manor of advice on the E/H and Disc vs Drum. I have only had Disc recently--and have been happy with them. I had Disc on the C Dory 25, which is the weight where I would consider E/H. Yes E/H is better. However, I towed the 25 all over the West, including a number of steep grades, including Prince Rupert in Canada. The only problem I had was after one perticularly long down grade, I did have a bearing problem. I suspect that it was related to a dragging caliper on the disc on one axel. I normally check the hub and disc temperature after any long down grade and every 2 hours. I made an exception since it was not convent to pull off the freeway, and there were no rest stops...

Many states require brakes on both axels. I am not sure about reciprocity between BC and US states. As I understand it in BC "Gross trailer weight of more than 2,800 kg (6,160 Ibs) - Brakes are required, and the trailer brakes must be capable of being applied by the driver independently of the towing vehicle's brakes. A surge brake does NOT meet this requirement. A breakaway brake is also required. Brakes are required on all axles." However you are below this 2800 KG limit, and can use either surge or disc. I would have been in violation of BC law when towing to Prince Rupert.

I have never used electric only brakes on a boat trailer--I realize that some have--but there is also a high incidence of failure when used in salt water.

If your truck is light or marginal--then that is certainly a good reason to consider E/h brakes. I have been towing with heavy vehicles, and have no problems with the disc brakes.
 
Living in Northern Idaho, I go up and especially down long grades in any direction we travel from home. Returning home one time I had 150 miles of heavy snow on a twisting mountain road and I felt like the trailer was driving me. The single axel trailer w/ surge brakes that came with the boat were in good shape when I purchased the boat/ trailer. In two years I went through the brake pads and scored the rotors. (Leading up to the purcase I had talked to several boat trailer salesmen who assured me there was no problem with long downgrades and surge brakes. - don't believe everything you hear)

So, I went whole new trailer w/ twin axel and electric over hydc and pulled it 12,000 last year with no problem. Love the brakes. Some of us only learn the hard way.

Chuck
 
I would get disc brakes with vented rotors. If your going near salt water or the hill country (Rockies)I would recommend the Kodiak brand. A little more pricey but they hold up and use brake pads that are available in your local auto parts store. I would do the electric over hydraulic at the same time you switch to the disc brakes as they use different parts depending on what type of brakes you have; drums or discs. I never liked the slop you seem to have with surge brakes from movement of the hydraulic actuator. Electric drum brakes maybe ok for RV trailers but I'd keep them out of the salt water. Just my opinion here.
D.D.
 
Just a few minor comments. The gentleman who has all electric brakes is from Wisconsin, where there is no salt water within 1500 miles. Those electric brakes work by dragging a solenoid on the drum which then forces the brake shoes against the drum. No hydraulic fluid involved. Works great on our travel trailer, but electric stuff and salt water don't mix. Tail lights are proof of that.

Also, disk and drum brakes require different line pressures from the EOH pump. If you have drum and ever plan to change to disks, you might want to discuss that fact with the installer to see if you can make the change without changing the whole pump unit.

I know that EOH and disks are great for a C-25. Only way to fly.

Boris
 
Thanks for all the helpful feedback. I think I am going to look into switching to discs as well as the EOH conversion, unless I can do the conversion and switch to discs later (looks like that may be tricky due to pressure differences.
 
Boris is correct about the fresh water use of my boat. However, you should have no more problem operating in Salt Water, as long as you maintain your brake system...which is true with any system you use. Here is an excellent article regarding electric brakes on boat trailers.

http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/electric_brakes.asp

My understanding of the Electric over hydraulic, besides expense, is that you have another small pump motor that pressurizes the hydraulic brake system when it senses current from your vehicles electric brake controller. One more (expensive) component that could fail... As I said earlier, unfortunately disc brakes don't exist in the electric world. If you want disc, you'll have to stay surge or go EOH. But if you just want to get rid of the surge, the least expensive conversion would be to all electric. The electric magnet has no exposed electrical components, and the wiring connections can be sealed. Colby
 
Read the article and everyone's post but am confused. I just built a new trailer to replace the old surge with drums that I later converted to disc. After 10 years of salt water use, and planning for retirement, we had a brand new custom aluminum trailer built. It has disc on all wheels, all electric. The hitch is solid metal with no surge mechanism of any kind. My confusion arises as it is built just like the old surge set up, meaning there are no electrical components on the brake system that go under water. It has an electrically powered actuator on the tongue that compresses the hydraulic fluid to active the calipers. No different than the old discs. I will say there is a major difference in towing. I have never, ever, had such super braking power and with the in-cab controller I have complete, customizable control of the trailer braking system in real time. I can set it to brake at 25,50 or 75 percent of braking power. I use around 15% and hardly touch the brake petal to slow down. In addition I can brake the trailer manually without even braking in the truck. Time will tell if it holds up but I was mighty impressed with the set up. What am I missing about electric brakes and salt water since there are no electrical components that get submerged????
 
What you have is an Electric over Hydraulic set up. It is probably a great setup. Problem is, it's a lot more expensive then just an all electric setup. That little actuator you mentioned runs anywhere from $600 on up. I think the prices are coming down on them though. Colby
 
I'm wondering if we have anyone who has actually used electric brakes in salt water. I'd like to hear their experience. Personally, I wouldn't touch that with the proverbial 10' pole. Just the mechanism of the brake actuator hidden away inside a drum brake scares me, knowing what salt water is capable of.
 
Electric brakes are really pretty simple. Just google electric brake and you can find various diagrams. The "actuator" is nothing more than an electro-magnet. Electric brakes use the same drums as surge. The salt (or fresh water to an extent also), bother them no more than any other non galvanized metal on your trailer. If you don't maintain them, they will rust out just like any other part. Electric brakes are much better than surge brakes. Electric over hydraulic is a step up in that you can run disc brakes, but that comes with more cost. Also, brake fluid, like ethanol, attracts moisture. And like your fuel system, water within is not a good thing. Seems to me if one is going to stick with drums anyway, there's little benefit paying extra money for the electric over hydraulic system as opposed to an all electric system.
 
I put EOH disc brakes on my trailer so I wouldn't get the klunk starting and stopping. I use them in salt water 99% of the time. They work well, you can change the setting as to how much braking is applied on application, and you can manually increase it as needed. The system cost over $2000 for a single axel.
 
I'm not sure why, but with my surge brake/Kodiak disc setup, I don't get annoying clunking when starting/stopping. The brakes definitely work --- the tow combo practically stops better than when I'm driving the vehicle alone. I don't think it's anything special about the actuator either, because I started with one brand, it had a problem, and the replacement was another brand. I'm certainly not complaining, but I wonder what makes the difference between a setup that clunks noticeably and one that doesn't?
 
In reference to Boris on Journey On. "Tail lights are proof of that". I have been using portable attachable/detachable tail lights for several years now. I found I was constantly replacing a tail light no matter what brand or style I used. The portables take a couple of minutes but they go back in the vehicle and are ready to put back on when the boat goes back on the trailer.
 
Now I understand. For some reason I thought the EOH involved something to do with a surge brake mechanism. I should mention that the one thing I do miss about my surge set up is that when hitching the trailer there was some play in the ball mount that could be used to get the trailer hooked up. I don't have that play with a solid tongue. Any ideas on a "for sure" back up tool to get the ball and tongue lined up perfect, every time?
 
May be the main actuator piston is bad. Or the way it's built. If you think about the way it works, if there is nothing in the actuator to absorb the shock as the coupler is pulled forward, or the trailer and it's load is pushing on it, it's going to "clunk". Usually most noticeable when starting from a stop.
Also regarding tail lights. LED's that are sealed shouldn't have a problem getting dunked.
 
colbysmith":2b2okmhm said:
May be the main actuator piston is bad. Or the way it's built. If you think about the way it works, if there is nothing in the actuator to absorb the shock as the coupler is pulled forward, or the trailer and it's load is pushing on it, it's going to "clunk".
Click to expand...

Not sure if you are addressing me, about not having an annoying clunk (?). I'm pretty sure my actuator is working fine, as my brakes work great (if I purposely shut them off, the rig is very noticably hard to stop; with them engaged it stops as good or better when towing as when not towing). Also, this is the second actuator I've had that did not annoyingly clunk. I do note they both have something designed in (forget what it's called) to sort of muffle the shock. Another reason may be that I am relatively gentle when stopping and starting. At any rate, not complaining! I had some teething pains when the system was new (basically had to re-do everything the shop did wrong, which was almost everything), but now I love it. That doesn't mean everyone would though, and I'm sure E-O-H would be even better.

Sunbeam
 
I was addressing those that said they wondered why the clunk. ;-) Sounds like you have a good surge setup that works for you. I've just never cared much for surge braking for all the many reasons that have already been posted around. Pure all electric has worked well for me. I like the Electric over Hydraulic idea, but not the price. ;-(
 
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