I am a new owner of a 19' angler with a 90 HP Honda on it with permatrim, and after taking it out today on my first real outing with it, I am not very impressed at the boats handling ablility. It is very unstable at high speeds, scary in fact. Does anyone else share this opinion? Don't know if I will "hang in" with this boat. I miss my Alaskan Bulkhead Trophy, it could handle high speed turns and all without scaring the rat out of the wife. Any advice would be appreciated before we decide to bail.
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Poor Handling
- Thread starter cislander
- Start date
Jack in Alaska
New member
Welcome to the world of C-Dory owners. You will find the answer to your problem here. Maybe not from me but someone will chime in after me..............
You have advanced from a deep V high speed hull to a flat bottom dory type boat and in my opinion a too large engine.
It will NOT perform at high speed like your previous boat but it will perform flawlessly at a medium speed(20 mph) and do it much more economically. You purchased a great boat but if you can not drive it at a speed mentioned you should probably put it up for sale. It is not a high speed boat.
Good luck................
Jack in Alaska
You have advanced from a deep V high speed hull to a flat bottom dory type boat and in my opinion a too large engine.
It will NOT perform at high speed like your previous boat but it will perform flawlessly at a medium speed(20 mph) and do it much more economically. You purchased a great boat but if you can not drive it at a speed mentioned you should probably put it up for sale. It is not a high speed boat.
Good luck................
Jack in Alaska
Captains Cat
New member
That's just the way they handle. On a sharp turn, the corner of the flat hull will "grab" and give you an uncomfortable feeling. My 22 was the same way. You get used to it.
I assume you sea trialed the boat before you bought it? :roll:
Charlie
I assume you sea trialed the boat before you bought it? :roll:
Charlie
cislander,
I've never ridden a 19, but Jack is spot on.
No one around here ever claimed their boat to be a high speed vessel. Lots of us have experienced the squirrely behavior at 35 mph and above. JUST SLOW DOWN!
You have to be willing to give up something to get the C-dory fuel economy.
Save your 90 horses for flat calm water and/or heavy loads and...............................................don't give up on her too soon.
Dan
I've never ridden a 19, but Jack is spot on.
No one around here ever claimed their boat to be a high speed vessel. Lots of us have experienced the squirrely behavior at 35 mph and above. JUST SLOW DOWN!
You have to be willing to give up something to get the C-dory fuel economy.
Save your 90 horses for flat calm water and/or heavy loads and...............................................don't give up on her too soon.
Dan
Boy, did Jack come right to the point with that. A deep-V boat will certainly handle high speed better... at a cost of much higher fuel usage. Let conditions get really snotty, and you will begin to appreciate the C-Dory hull design. Yes, it is slower... and as conditions require you to slow down that deep-V, it will wallow and be an uncomfortable ride. The C-Dory will slog through the crap and get you home safely... but, slower. And at half the fuel usage.
We generally run our CD-25 in the mid to upper teens as our "high speed" cruise. I can get it above 20 knots, but the ride gets rougher and the handling feels less precise. We knew that going into it.
If high speed is more important than being able to handle most of what Mother Nature might throw at you, then the C-Dory might not be the right boat for your usage.
Give it some more time to discover the virtues of this hull.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
We generally run our CD-25 in the mid to upper teens as our "high speed" cruise. I can get it above 20 knots, but the ride gets rougher and the handling feels less precise. We knew that going into it.
If high speed is more important than being able to handle most of what Mother Nature might throw at you, then the C-Dory might not be the right boat for your usage.
Give it some more time to discover the virtues of this hull.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
My first ride in my 19 was exactly the same experience! I thought to myself, what have I gone and done! At that time, the boat just had trim tabs and not the permatrim. Aggressive use of trim tabs on the 19 is a real adventure!
Take your time to learn the boats characteristics at different speeds. The 19 is very sensitive to motor tilt angle. I use the tilt button almost as much as the throttle. There is a fine line, but it is easily learned. Bow down too much at speed will scare the little willies out of you. The bow grabs and will turn the boat sideways with the smallest input from the wheel. Bow up too much at speed and the flat bottom won't hold well and turns are loose.
After some experimenting time, you will feel in control of the boat, and understand the differences between hull types. A C-Dory is not a WOT boat, this is not to say that you can't run at 30 mph, you just need to get the feel for the conditions that allow that speed.
I find that most of my running time is at about 18 knots. If it is smooth, I can raise the bow, gain a knot or two and feel perfectly comfortable. The boat will handle quick S type turns, those used to miss debris in the water, very well.
I also think that the feel of the steering wheel gives you the best input for handling of the boat at speed. Too heavy (bow down) and you get into the bow steering, too light (bow up) and you can loose more control of the stern.
I now have a permatrim which I think is the best addition you can have on the 19. I find that I don't use the trim tabs much at all, mostly to balance the boat, but I try to do that will weight placement. I think the trim tabs do add a bit of "hull length", which doesn't hurt the 19 at all. The 19 is the same hull at the 22, just with 3 feet "cut out", probably not the best way to design a boat, but it works.
Robbi
Take your time to learn the boats characteristics at different speeds. The 19 is very sensitive to motor tilt angle. I use the tilt button almost as much as the throttle. There is a fine line, but it is easily learned. Bow down too much at speed will scare the little willies out of you. The bow grabs and will turn the boat sideways with the smallest input from the wheel. Bow up too much at speed and the flat bottom won't hold well and turns are loose.
After some experimenting time, you will feel in control of the boat, and understand the differences between hull types. A C-Dory is not a WOT boat, this is not to say that you can't run at 30 mph, you just need to get the feel for the conditions that allow that speed.
I find that most of my running time is at about 18 knots. If it is smooth, I can raise the bow, gain a knot or two and feel perfectly comfortable. The boat will handle quick S type turns, those used to miss debris in the water, very well.
I also think that the feel of the steering wheel gives you the best input for handling of the boat at speed. Too heavy (bow down) and you get into the bow steering, too light (bow up) and you can loose more control of the stern.
I now have a permatrim which I think is the best addition you can have on the 19. I find that I don't use the trim tabs much at all, mostly to balance the boat, but I try to do that will weight placement. I think the trim tabs do add a bit of "hull length", which doesn't hurt the 19 at all. The 19 is the same hull at the 22, just with 3 feet "cut out", probably not the best way to design a boat, but it works.
Robbi
Captains Cat
New member
You'll also see your money back when you sell. These boats hold their value better than any make I know.
Charlie
Charlie
the 19 is a superb handling boat with the static balance even side to side. I have several 5 gallon water jugs I shift to compensate for list due to passenger load. And 90 is way to much power you won't be needing it but good to have for quick launches and then back down. Tab deployment is truly useful at lower speeds and if going wide open lift them up. You can look a bit like Bob Hoovers aerobatic show if lowered. One of my first trips I went wot with one tab down a bit and carved a turn opposite the helm movements and tipped way over. Not good. WOT is only possible in flat calms anyway and how often do we get that? Being a dory hull they want to slow down in chop. That being said I see the same speeds in 3-4 foot slop that the deep vees if they have a brain as do as I trim the bow up a tad and run at 10 knots and have a good time the c-dory doesn't care about it. Like others have said the c-dory is not for high speed cruising. I have seen 30 mph with me aboard and light on fuel the handling moves into the squirelly side of the envelop.
At the designed correct speeds of 16 to 20 knots the thing is superb. I rarely use my tabs but tilt the engine, I have the stingray stabilizer much like the perma trim and it's all the boat needs. Slow down enjoy life and get the c-dory grin going. It's all good, George
At the designed correct speeds of 16 to 20 knots the thing is superb. I rarely use my tabs but tilt the engine, I have the stingray stabilizer much like the perma trim and it's all the boat needs. Slow down enjoy life and get the c-dory grin going. It's all good, George
patrick and linda
New member
JUST A NOTE ON THE HOLDING of VALUE THING. recently sold my 22', for 19k less than i had in it. sold fast, so, maybe priced to cheap, however if i had held my price of 4k more, i might still be sitting on it. these figures are current and real.
pat
ps: just to keep it honest, i've never sold a boat for a profit and equally never sold a boat for what i had in it, and never had a boat that satisfied all of my demands!
pat
ps: just to keep it honest, i've never sold a boat for a profit and equally never sold a boat for what i had in it, and never had a boat that satisfied all of my demands!
Lots of good feedback coming from people who seem to know their subject when it comes to boats. I just have one question though, how many of you have had a good deep hulled boat like the Bayliner Trophy? I don't know how much I will like using water jugs and moving people around to get my boat to ride like it should, After all this is the Northwest, and we need stablility out there, this is a serious game.
I still need to be convinced, however, I am going to give it a fair chance to please before it hits the market again. If I don't have that patience then I stand a chance to lose a bundle of $$$.
Cislander
I still need to be convinced, however, I am going to give it a fair chance to please before it hits the market again. If I don't have that patience then I stand a chance to lose a bundle of $$$.
Cislander
cislander":2sg6x03a said:I still need to be convinced, however, I am going to give it a fair chance to please before it hits the market again. If I don't have that patience then I stand a chance to lose a bundle of $$$.
Cislander
I had a rock solid but fuel sucking early Sea Ray 23 cuddy, One son had a rock solid fuel sucking Parker 24. I've had the Jenny B out 50 miles several times, the previous owner of 416Rigby's C-22 had it out way further chasing tuna. Not once did I feel less safe on the Jenny B. In fact, I could go uphill (Heading north from San Diego) faster than either one of them at the same comfort level. and I didn't need a fill up on return.
I take that "never once" back. WOT with my trim tabs accidentally set wrong. Then it scared me.
Nevertheless, I might be tempted to take that angler off your hands just to keep it in the family. Make me a PM offer I can't refuse.... :twisted: The first thing I would do would be to lose the Permatrim. Too finicky on a 90 hp 19 ft. boat.
Don
Hi there the moveable ballast is just for the comfort of no list at rest . The bayliner at slower speeds will wallow and wander in a chop and wear one out. They are meant to plane. The dory is hugely stable much of it's weight is down low and when discussing the merits with deep vee owners who have just had a beating out there, I'm happy to run a dory. For truly fast running in chop one could use a cigarette or donzi or other go fast but different boats for different folks. The C-dory is for those that want to arrive alive and fresh, and if we look at the huge amount of experience of owners who have been there ..done that in all manner of boat, the c-dory is a winner. Give it some hours and try 14-18 knots for a while George
I previously owned a 1993 (purchased new) 1850 Capri Bayliner with a 4.3 liter 6 cylinder engine. The thing could fly at 53 mph with the trim up on a flat lake. I passed it down (still in excellent condition and still flies) to my two sons when I bought the C-Dory. I couldn't be happier with my 22. But now I enjoy cruising at 16 knots. I have read that with the Honda 90 I have, I could reach 30 mph but have never been past 22 mph.
Since I got my boat last year, I have had to handle at least three storms in Lake Superior and in Lake Michigan, that I can recall. Some of the storms came with heavy chops. Neither my wife or I ever felt scared in those storms but I brought the throttle back and cruised at 10 knots till we reached port.
The boat handles beautifully in rough weather.
Since I got my boat last year, I have had to handle at least three storms in Lake Superior and in Lake Michigan, that I can recall. Some of the storms came with heavy chops. Neither my wife or I ever felt scared in those storms but I brought the throttle back and cruised at 10 knots till we reached port.
The boat handles beautifully in rough weather.
patrick and linda
New member
i owned a 2001 trophy, model 2352, i/o 5.7 260hp. was stable and ran well. can't recall anything bad about the boat. had small but stand up cuddy, marine head and small gally. fuel economy was never an issue with me then nor now. at the same time i owned the trophy i also owned a 356 carver aft cabin, had twin 454's that drank 1.9 gallons per mile. held 320 gallons of fuel. top off was always $500. to $600. kept the trophy on hydrohoist at the lake and the carver was in a slip on the ohio river.
pat
pat
A friend of mine has a Trophy, a 19 I think. He is constantly talking enviously about my 22 C-dory...until I talk about cruising speed. He has a need to go fast and a C-Dory is not a go fast boat. He envies the warm comfortable cabin, the amenities, the fuel efficiency, the ability to comfortably take seas at 10-12Kts that he either has to take at a teeth jarring 25Kts (Slam...Slam...Slam!!) or a wallowing 6Kts. He envies it all but his need to go fast trumps everything so he sticks with his Deep Vee and therein lies the moral, Diffr'nt boats for Diffr'nt folks. No boat is the right boat for everybody and from what you have said a C-Dory may not be the right boat for you. Too bad you didn't get a chance to sea trial the boat so you could have found that out before buying.
Cislander,
You're getting some great advice from folks who run their dory's everyday in a variety of sea conditions. Give your boat a chance to win you over and you'll find that she will never let you down. In your dory, you'll find that the larger the swells and wind waves get, the better your boat will ride (very safe and stable). If your need for speed trumps safe economical sea keeping then you'll end up selling. Just give it some time before you decide and remember the reason why you gave up the Trophy.
You're getting some great advice from folks who run their dory's everyday in a variety of sea conditions. Give your boat a chance to win you over and you'll find that she will never let you down. In your dory, you'll find that the larger the swells and wind waves get, the better your boat will ride (very safe and stable). If your need for speed trumps safe economical sea keeping then you'll end up selling. Just give it some time before you decide and remember the reason why you gave up the Trophy.
20dauntless
New member
I moved from a 20 foot Whaler to the 22 C-Dory. My Whaler had the more modern, deeper V hull known as Accutrak rather than the older Whaler designs. The Whaler cruises at 30+ knots and topped out around 50 knots. The C-Dory cruises comfortably anywhere between 10 and 19 knots or so and maxes out around 27 knots. On a recent 150 nm tour of the Gulf Island I averaged 12 knots. It took a bit of adjustment to slow down, but it really is much more comfortable going slowly. Avoid the temptation to drive the dory hull faster than it should be going (you'll get the hang of this with practice) and I think you'll be happy with the result. Experiment with various engine and trim tab settings to find the best ride, and gradually work your way into more demanding conditions.
Even with green water hitting the windshield of the C-Dory I've felt safe. These are tough, safe, stable, and reliable little boats, but they aren't race boats. Speed makes a big difference, and you can't operate a C-Dory the same way you used to operate your Bayliner.
Even with green water hitting the windshield of the C-Dory I've felt safe. These are tough, safe, stable, and reliable little boats, but they aren't race boats. Speed makes a big difference, and you can't operate a C-Dory the same way you used to operate your Bayliner.