Priming the engine...

J

JamesTXSD

Active member
We just rolled into the Tropical Tip today... will spend a few days getting moved back into the house. Ugly news: there is a red tide that just moved into the area today... red tide kills fish and leaves an ugly stench in the area. So far, it's just the coastal area, so it may not be an issue on our island (but it sure was last year about this time when we got back). So, I may not be in a big hurry to get Wild Blue back in the water. :crook

We need to get the exterior of the house powerwashed and the 5th wheel unloaded before we think about getting the boat ready for the water again. I want to replace fuel lines and check out the entire fuel system before putting her back in the water.

Just as we were getting our cargo trailer backed into our driveway, our neighbor came home. He is the guy I've mentioned that owns a boat building company. He asked if I knew about the "new engine priming procedures"?

"Um, no."

He said that, because of the ethanol (and he is a BIG opponent of ethanol in ANY marine use), the engine manufacturers are issuing new engine priming procedures prior to engine start: squeeze the bulb until it is hard. Let it sit for 30 seconds, then squeeze the bulb a bunch again. Then, turn the key on but do NOT start the engine. Squeeze the bulb some more. Apparently, the ethanol in the fuel is causing a problem with fuel evaporation in the fuel pump, and attempting to start the engine with a dry fuel pump has been causing a problem with the pump... even with fuel injection. No, I don't understand what the problem is, just relating what I was told this evening by my neighbor. I'm sure I'll get more details when I take the boat in for service before we put her back in the water.

Not sure when that is going to happen... we have to get the 5th wheel ready to put into storage before the boat comes out. If the red tide is going to be an on-going situation, we won't be in a big hurry to get the boat wet again right away. On the bright side: we are on NO schedule.

I'll let y'all know what I find out about the new priming procedures and more ethanol updates when I can.

Weather update: a "cold front" is moving into the area tomorrow... it's only going to be in the upper 70s tomorrow! :roll: North wind and low humidity... should be great weather for getting the exterior of the house powerwashed and start the moving-back-in process.

This is as long as we've been away from Wild Blue, and we're both looking forward to some boat time.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
We have not heard of this with any of our manufacturers (Evinrude, Suzuki, Yamaha).

I know on Mercs 75 horse and up there shouldn't be a primer bulb (just learned this two weeks ago) as they use a lift pump. Using a primer bulb damages the lift pump float causing it to stick and ends up flooding the engine.

The idea of cranking the engine and not starting it? Any good running motor starts so easily these days I'm not sure you could crank for any period and prevent starting (unless you pulled the lanyard before cranging).

I'll run this by our service guys and see what they know. Two of them are headed to Yamaha school next week, so I'll have them ask there as well.
 
Well, I know that we've been running ethanol in Journey On for the last 5 years and that Honda 150 has started every time without touching the bulb. It has both a low pressure fuel pump and a high pressure pump.

So, I'm not sure what your neighbor meant, or to what it applied.

Boris
 
I'll be taking the boat in sometime in the next week for some service work. I'll find out more then. Our neighbor is a big opponent of ethanol. He writes a weekly article for one of our local publications, and frequently writes about the problems they see in their shop due to ethanol.

Wild Blue has been in storage all summer, while we were in the Tetons and out land traveling. We put some of the blue Sta-bil in before putting her away... our Honda, like Boris', has been very dependable, always starting. I have tried my best to avoid ethanol, but it has become darn near impossible these days. Seems to me that regular use mitigates many of the problems with ethanol... I'll keep you posted.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
Jim,

I know from my (Yamaha) mechanic that regular use, (which he says is at least once every 30 days) does mitigate much of the ethanol badness. He says it is both good for the boat, the motor and the mind and body,

Matt,

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Two of our guys are in Georgia next week at Yamaha school, and one of them will be in the class dealing with fuel systems, so he'll be bringing back the latest information.
 
JamesTXSD":2wrfe1qs said:
We just rolled into the Tropical Tip today... will spend a few days getting moved back into the house. Ugly news: there is a red tide that just moved into the area today... red tide kills fish and leaves an ugly stench in the area. So far, it's just the coastal area, so it may not be an issue on our island (but it sure was last year about this time when we got back). So, I may not be in a big hurry to get Wild Blue back in the water. :crook

We need to get the exterior of the house powerwashed and the 5th wheel unloaded before we think about getting the boat ready for the water again. I want to replace fuel lines and check out the entire fuel system before putting her back in the water.

Just as we were getting our cargo trailer backed into our driveway, our neighbor came home. He is the guy I've mentioned that owns a boat building company. He asked if I knew about the "new engine priming procedures"?

"Um, no."

He said that, because of the ethanol (and he is a BIG opponent of ethanol in ANY marine use), the engine manufacturers are issuing new engine priming procedures prior to engine start: squeeze the bulb until it is hard. Let it sit for 30 seconds, then squeeze the bulb a bunch again. Then, turn the key on but do NOT start the engine. Squeeze the bulb some more. Apparently, the ethanol in the fuel is causing a problem with fuel evaporation in the fuel pump, and attempting to start the engine with a dry fuel pump has been causing a problem with the pump... even with fuel injection. No, I don't understand what the problem is, just relating what I was told this evening by my neighbor. I'm sure I'll get more details when I take the boat in for service before we put her back in the water.

Not sure when that is going to happen... we have to get the 5th wheel ready to put into storage before the boat comes out. If the red tide is going to be an on-going situation, we won't be in a big hurry to get the boat wet again right away. On the bright side: we are on NO schedule.

I'll let y'all know what I find out about the new priming procedures and more ethanol updates when I can.

Weather update: a "cold front" is moving into the area tomorrow... it's only going to be in the upper 70s tomorrow! :roll: North wind and low humidity... should be great weather for getting the exterior of the house powerwashed and start the moving-back-in process.

This is as long as we've been away from Wild Blue, and we're both looking forward to some boat time.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
Click to expand...

Jim,

You have a Honda BF135, no? You don't even need a primer bulb; it's just sort of a vestige of a lost era at this point.

Unless you're draining the fuel/vapor separator box there's always so much fuel in there that the engine will always start. Also the BF135 has a mechanical fuel pump (runs off the camshaft). Even if you ran out of fuel once you put more fuel in the tank the fuel pump on the engine would pick it up (just like in a car) and you'd be off and running again.

I know we've had quite a few customers come back over the years forgetting that they even had primer bulbs on their EFI engines (and that goes all the back to the BF130/115 at this point).

Les
 
Wild Blue's first "day at the spa," after getting the first layers of dirt off her from 6 months of storage yesterday. She was put away with nearly half fuel. We pumped that fuel out of the boat - stratified layers when looking into the tank. I'd rather start with fresh fuel. The fuel line from the tank to the filter is the proper type, designed to be used with ethanol laced fuel, so no need to replace. The line from the filter to the engine was the thin wall old type and was replaced. Fresh oil and lower unit lube. Replaced the Honda fuel filter canister.

Before starting the engine, I asked the mechanic about the "priming procedure." He said, "That's our current recommendation." I watched while he fired up the boat, and he did the bulb squeeze 3 times. I watched while they worked on other boats - same thing.

With the motor running, the mechanic did a scan on the engine to see if there were any issues we should look at: everything fine except a high percentage on air intake. "Probably a dirty filter," the mechanic said. Took it out - yep, a layer of dirt on the screen. Blew that out, numbers back to normal.

A new revelation at their shop: they are no longer a Honda OEM dealer. Their main focus is building/selling new boats, and they are equipping them with Suzuki or Tohatsu motors. The boat being worked on next to mine had a 7 year old Tohatsu motor that looked like new... it is the owner's boat. They said no problem with working on Hondas, but they would not be doing any warranty work. The main reason they gave: Honda has gotten out of line on parts prices and shipping charges. The mechanic did say that the 135/150 Honda is a great engine... what would you expect him to say while he's working on mine?

My SeaStar hydraulic steering leaked while in storage. Tomorrow, we will install new seals in it - hope that cures the problem.

Another potential source of debate: to wax or not wax? The blue stripe on our boat is starting to look a bit chalked. I have always subscribed to the "a good coat of wax twice a year" for our boats. The last couple times, the wax didn't bring back the glossy shine like in the past. Today I was told: "You don't need wax. Your boat has a good gelcoat on it - wet sand that with 400, then 600, then buff it out."

I balked on that... "Wax good. Wax make boat pretty."

The owner told one of the workers to "do a small sample spot on that color and show him how it should look." It took a couple minutes, and when buffed, it glowed like new... REALLY obvious against the chalky blue on the rest of the boat.

I accused my friend of pulling "the old vacuum cleaner salesman routine". :wink: He laughed and said, "You can do that yourself, or you can pay us to do it for you. Time or money - your choice. But as long as you have good gelcoat on there, you don't have to dull it with wax."

On the way home, I checked with the place that sold me bottom paint the last time... they no longer allow "do it yourself" work in their yard for "anything below the waterline." Estimate for them to do ablative bottom paint: $900.

And, she needs it. Micron CSC Extra is what that yard recommends for this area (and what we've been using).

A little more sprucing up, a few more maintenance things, and Wild Blue will be ready to hit the waterways.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
The trim on Valkyrie (05) is green and gets increasingly chalky-looking every year, especially on the roof. Yearly I use color restorer and that helps quite a bit.

However, I had a local shop do some minor gelcoat work in August and they also compounded and buffed the entire boat for $250. The results are simply astounding and it looks better then new, literally.

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
I'm thinking of removing the primer bulbs on my Suzuki DF 150s. Dealers what's the collective opinion on this? Seems like just one more thing in the fuel line to fail if it's not necessary.

Matt? Les? Marc?

Other folks? Read this thread....

Charlie
 
Hi Charlie,

Having a primer bulb in the fuel line is holdover from earlier 2-stoke engines that had vacuum driven fuel pumps that weren't particularly strong at engine cranking speeds. It made much more sense and was easier on the starter and battery if a primer bulb was placed inline.

Four stroke outboards (at least all those that I know about) have mechanically driven fuel pumps like most cars (well, at least until the electric fuel pumps came into vogue...especially those in the fuel tank) and will pull fuel from a tank as well as a car that's been run out of fuel and then had fuel added.

I could still make some argument for having a primer bulb in the fuel line of a carbureted engine since they're more often run dry and the bowls drained. Still, with a mechanical fuel pump you will be able to crank the engine and have it start without a primer bulb.

With an EFI engine the primer bulb is somewhere between 'less important' and 'useless' depending on your own comfort level and viewpoint. There's so much fuel in the fuel/vapor separator on the EFI engine that they always start right away and can run for quite awhile with no external fuel source. At least in our environment we don't drain the vapor separator for the winter, we just stabilize the fuel and make sure that's run through the engine long enough to ensure that the vapor separator is full of stabilized fuel.

Unless you routinely run the engine out of fuel, or routinely drain the vapor separator, you'll find the primer bulb is never used and is not a necessity.

Les

.
 
I've tried everything...buffer with polishing compound...rubbing compound...wax...no wax...the color stripe still turns to chalky crap after a month. I'll be blunt...I'm sick of messing with it so I'm eventually just going to paint the bloody thing and be done with it. It's downright embarassing to have the boat look like it does sometimes.

Rick
 
416rigby":18ew2bde said:
I've tried everything...buffer with polishing compound...rubbing compound...wax...no wax...the color stripe still turns to chalky crap after a month. I'll be blunt...I'm sick of messing with it so I'm eventually just going to paint the bloody thing and be done with it.

Rick
Click to expand...

Rick, try pulling your primer bulbs... Or putting this post in the thread you really meant to! :lol:

Harry, you've already got the racor, the LP and HP under the cowl. If you want to change 4 racors each year, go ahead but I'm gonna KISS! :mrgreen:

Charlie
 
Charlie, Jim mentioned the wax or no wax earlier in this thread. Source of frustration for me. Maybe you're on to something, though. Pulling the primer bulbs may help. lol
 
Sorry, My fault. I pointed Rick to this thread to see what Jim and others said about the green jel coat fading. My apologies about the almost high jack.

As to pulling the bulbs. Don't think I'll do that on SleepyC. I pump them up to firm, and those engines start on the first spark ---> every time. Hasn't had much effect on the color fade though.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Back
Top