Questionable Transom - seeking advice before purchase!

S

S.Duncan

New member
Hey folks!

I'm looking at purchasing a 22' Angler in the coming weeks, but I'm worried about the integrity of the transom after seeing some photos and talking to the seller. Being that I am a 20 hour drive away, I'm hoping some more experienced people would be able to give their two cents on the topic. I have fibreglassing/boat building experience, and the tools and and materials needed to take on a repair, but I'm wondering if there is a way to determine the extent of the damage (ie. full transom replacement vs. reinforcement) somewhat before spending two days driving down to see it.

Problem area is under black tape on top of port side of transom, and possible around port side bolt attaching motor to transom.

Any opinions are welcome!

I believe this same boat was for sale in 2016 as I saw a thread relating to figuring out a price for it, but the thread ended without knowing if the purchase was made.

What do you guys think?

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How do you know there is a problem. The pictures provided don't show any issues that I can see. There are some places that should be closely checked though.
 
Seller said that when installing the outboard, a bolt was overtightened and cracked the transom. Solution was the black duct tape over the crack to prevent water ingress. A closer look at the photo shows what appears to be a separation line on the top of the transom, behind the black tape as well.

I imagine she has a bit of water in her core back there..
 
I can't tell you if your transom has water damage or not, but I can give you some perspective on what you're looking at...

S.Duncan":wxfvbw0l said:
Seller said that when installing the outboard, a bolt was overtightened and cracked the transom.
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Older boats had a plastic trim piece on the top edge of the transom. I'm guessing that this trim piece is what cracked, not the transom itself.

S.Duncan":wxfvbw0l said:
A closer look at the photo shows what appears to be a separation line on the top of the transom.
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Yep. My boat has this too. Apparently on older boats (mine is 1999) there was an inadequate sealing of the top of the transom edge. I can't really tell on my boat, but it appears to have maybe just been gelcoat, and then covered with the plastic cap. However it was sealed, a crack eventually opened up, but would have been invisible as long as the black plastic strip was in place. This crack isn't caused by impact, it's just a crack that naturally telegraphs through to the surface, where the fiberglass meets the core. In your case the black plastic trim strip cracked, was discarded, and the previous owner saw the crack between the core and fiberglass and tried to seal the top edge of it with tape. In my case the cap is gone and the previous owner sealed over the crack with epoxy, which eventually failed.

S.Duncan":wxfvbw0l said:
I imagine she has a bit of water in her core back there..
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Maybe, that's what I'm about to find out. After grinding off a bit of the top edge to see if water damage has occurred, and then doing any repair that's needed, I'm going to lay fiberglass over the top edge. This is the proper way to seal the top and I believe the newer boats do it this way as there is no black plastic cap on the transom top edge any more.

To see the similar condition on my boat, view photo #10 in my photo album, "Initial Damage Assessment". I've over-drilled around my motor mount holes and found a tiny bit of core rot around the edges of the holes, but nothing more, and the transom otherwise appears sound, so I'm not expecting to find much damage from water that may have entered from that crack on the top edge. I won't know until November, when I have some more time to do some more work on my project boat.
 
'm looking at purchasing a 22' Angler in the coming weeks, but I'm worried about the integrity of the transom after seeing some photos and talking to the seller. .......but I'm wondering if there is a way to determine the extent of the damage (ie. full transom replacement vs. reinforcement) ....
Problem area is under black tape on top of port side of transom, and possible around port side bolt attaching motor to transom.
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Although the OP does not give the year of the boat, photos appear to be a pre 1987 boat. There are some structural difference between the two forms of the C Dory hull. The after 1887 boats were built with the splash well as part of the cap/pilot house emolument., There there is a mating of the hull to deck joint, at the transom. You are correct that this should be mated with glass, and may not have been in some boats.

First one the key ways to look for transom damage, is to have the motor in trailering position, then put full body weight on the lower unit. If the transom flexes then suspect major transom damage. Other ways are to sound out the transom with small phenolic hammer, or screw driver handle. Use of a moisture meter (relative moisture) is also useful, looking for core moisture.

I do not believe that the black plastic cap, was used on the older boats, with the plywood splashwells.

In your case it might pay to have a marine surveyor, or local person--even a knowledgable C Dory owner, take a look at the transom. Some surveyors will check out a boat if nearby for a hundred or so dollars, instead of the $500+ for a full survey.
 
I would err on the side of caution with that boat. My boat is newer and of differing construction, but if you look in my album you will see I had to replace about a third of the core in the back of the boat. When I started the project, I thought it was just going to be a preventative maintenance job to fix the notorious gas tank problem. There really weren't any indicators that there was a serious problem with water intrusion, as in no soft spots.

If you have the skills to fix it, this could be a good opportunity. Call me a pessimist, but I would assume the worst.

It has OR registration, where is it at? I really dont have time to go look at it, but if it is really close I might be able to swing by. I should add that I am not a professional surveyor.
 
Thank you guys for your input and comments. I looked through your albums and the photos are great to get an idea of what I might be getting myself into. Here are a few more photos of the transom that I requested from the seller. I'm still not totally sure as to what is happening, is it just the glass delaminating from the core?

I think I have to go into this purchase assuming that I will need to do some core replacement in the transom, does that seem like a reasonable expectation? Or if one did the full weight hang off the lower unit, didn't feel flex, poked around and didn't feel a bunch of soft spots etc, then could conceivably just sand/grind down and glass over and reinforce the transom? I would want it structurally very sound as I would be looking at repowering with a 90 or 115 for up in Rupert.

The boat is located in Rosburg WA, I am planning on driving down on Wednesday Oct.12th to look at it, but if I can find a surveyor last minute to check it out before I go - or a very generous C-brat! - then that could save me a long drive if I get a thumbs down!

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Sorry, roseburg is too far for me.

I dont know too much about the plywood cored boats, which I believe this is.

Personally, I would take a pinless moisture meter down there and check for areas of relative wet core. I suspect you will find some and may be able to use that to your advantage. Sucks it's so far
 
So the questions is how much damaged has occurred. As high as the pixel count is on phones and screens these days there is no way to tell unless you go there. Take a ball ping hammer with you and a moisture meter if you have or can lay hands on one. Hammer works better any how.

If I was going to make a deal on it via pictures I would just take it for granted that the wood core in the stern has to be replaced. Just take it for worse case and price from there. I would pull the motor and the cap and get to digging. Also drill a grid of small holes thru out the entire transom. every 6 inches unless you find rot then ever inch until you stop finding it.

Once you know the damage you can plan repair. everything else is guessing. Swallow the pill or walk is my advice. I dont know the price but it would have to be fairly low for me to take it on.
 
Can't really tell until you look under the cap where it is separating, but it looks superficial IMO. Looks like whomever capped the transom edge did not wrap it around to the sides, just laid it on top.

Clearly it looks like the transom has been around a bit and had some work done over the years. The area around the motor bolt in the picture shows holes that have been filled with epoxy.

I would take an Xacto knife or something similar and slide it the gaps and see if you can get a sample of the core or tell if it is solid or not. Tap test on the transom faces it those areas may give an indication of the condition.
 
Not entirely sure what hammer Tom is suggesting. I personally will not use a steel hammer on anyone's boat (Ball Peen hammer). But I do use a very light mallet which has rubber on one side and the other side has a phenolic plastic. I find that the phenolic handle of a screwdriver works as well to sound out for delimitation, or hollow sound, Tap out the entire transom.

Do the weight on the lower unit. The boat would not be that hard to replace the transom, and make a good splash well at the same time.
Keep all of us in the loop...
 
I am not sure what year they had plywood or balsa core. We have a 1994 that is balsa core. Ours had a crack at the top of the transom which looks like that one has. If you take a pin type moisture meter and work out getting both pins on two existing screws this will let you know if you have moisture in there or not. Ours had moisture in it and we (our fiberglass guy) took the top off the transom and removed the rotted wood and dried it out really good. We then took fiberglass cloth and wet it out and filled the transom then filled it with epoxy. Very strong now and we can mount anything and know that it will not let moisture in. There was a little bit of moisture that got into the floor and I drilled some holes and dried that area out and filled it with epoxy.
Hope it goes well and if you go it is worth the trip.

Rob
 
I live near Roseburg OR, I could check out the boat on Monday (tomorrow). I'm no expert on core rot but could give it a good look over and tap test. You have received great advice.
 
There's a 22' fisherman cdory on craigslist, like an 84 or so I looked at 2 years ago, The transom is shot, it has keel like runners on bottom that are coming off and also had soft bottom. The motor was nice and new but the boat at the time wasn't worth 20K. I seen it posted again in Rosburg for 14K, i remember offering him 10 grand and he seemed insulted, but to fix that boat would be at least another 10-15K. also the radar didn't work, fishfinder wouldnt work. trailer had flat bald tires and rusted. And the roof needed work, inside needed work, and i believe one window was broke or cracked.
 
Griswold":2d09lwhq said:
... i remember offering him 10 grand and he seemed insulted, ...
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Never could understand how someone's offer on something could be an insult. You might decline the offer but how is it an insult? If the situation was reversed wouldn't you try to offer as low a price as you could?
 
ssobol":10rleruc said:
Griswold":10rleruc said:
... i remember offering him 10 grand and he seemed insulted, ...
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Never could understand how someone's offer on something could be an insult. You might decline the offer but how is it an insult? If the situation was reversed wouldn't you try to offer as low a price as you could?
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I understand he had a great boat for him at the time but reality needs to be established, he claimed this is his summer boat but had another in florida at his main home. I didn't post a warning to other c-dory buyers about this last year because to each their own, I just know this would have been a big project for me with minor experience in fiberglass. I'm thankful now looking back that i didnt buy it at 10k. the soft spots in the bottom seem to be isolated to 3 or so small screw holes but the transom would be complete build.
 
starcrafttom":1brhsbf4 said:
Not entirely sure what hammer Tom is suggesting.
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I am suggesting a light touch. I did not say go thor on the dam thing. really dude.
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Tom , there was post on another forum where someone took a heavy Ball Peen hammer to hull and left dents all over the boat. I own ball peen hammers from several ounces up to over 4 lbs. One the main functions of C Brats is teaching new and even old boaters. People may take what you say literally. I am not a “dude” which I consider a derogatory term, but are a friend of mine for many years. Bob
 
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