Raising the roof on a 16 Cruiser!

S

sweet pea

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C Dory Year
1998
C Dory Model
16 Cruiser
Vessel Name
Sweet Pea (SOLD 10/2012)
Exploring the possibility!
Anyone ever "Raise the Roof" on a 16? Not necessarily the entire roof, but at least the raised center section. I am considering this mod and wondered if anyone has done it before. No since in re-inventing the wheel.

I'm looking to at least raise either the entire roof or center raised section by 6 inches. Does anyone know what portions of the cabin roof have balsa. (all, none, certain sections)? Obviously, I will find out when I cut, but it might make me decide wether to raise the entire roof or just the center raised section. Any input would be a great help!
 
Sounds like a LOT of work! Not that it couldn't be done though.

The sloped front bulkhead will make the new roof smaller. Lots of design issues. If you just raised the center section it would be easier but still a head knocker.

Let us know what you decide and take lots of pictures. Someone will know what is cored and what is not. Maybe the factory, if they are still fabricating them the way they did in '98.

Charlie
 
I don't know what coring is on that boat. Various models have had diffent configurations (and it seems to have changed with time also).

It could be done--but seems like a difficult project. Best to make a mold of masonite, well waxed and then use this as a female for the new center section. You will probably have to leave the fore and aft parts the same for structural support.

It might be easier to raise the entire room--but 6" will be a cosmetic issue.

How about putting a hatch in the top? I would build a frame under and then build glass to flatten the area where the flange would go (see the illustations for roof air in thataway album).
 
Sweet Pea-

Are you trying to create more standing room, more sitting room, or both?

If you can't stand up anyway (even with the 6" addition), and only need more headroom when sitting, how about lowering the seats instead? Would be a lot easier!

Besides lowering the seats, you could get seats that recline slightly, increasing the headroom w/o raising the roof. Anyone tall with a low slung roadster/ sports car is familiar with this approach / tradeoff.

Just a thought!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I am really just looking for more standing room. Ceiling height is adequate then seated, I just need a little more height for that early morning standing stretch. Or when situations require me standing at the helm.
 
i am considering doing the same thing to the catch 22 (this winter).
 
I will wait until fall/winter myself, but my cousin does a lot of fiberglass work on the side (basically second job) and he wants me to do the homework before we consider tackling the project.

Repowering Sweet Pea this week, and the 98' 50HP will be part of a little "Old Southern" cousin to cousin trading for fiberglass work.

So far the most logical approach is to raise the center raised section. I think raising the entire roof might not be as structurally stable as just raising the center section. If I extend the existing angle of that section, it will create a larger area that would be at or above 6 foot. So I really need to find out more about the core and any bonding issues associated with it.
 
I am not sure that the current core is all that important. What is important is the finished product. There are plenty of good core materials, which are as good as, and lighter than Balsa for the roof of a small boat, like the C Dory 16. (For example Nadicore) There are several ways to go about it--one is to just cut out the top, raised section, and building new walls. A mold is the easiest way to get fair sections. You can do it with external and internal glassing around a core, but that requires fairing material--which adds weight and is a lot of labor.

You also want to think how the boat will look when you are finished.

I was looking at photos of another rebuild this PM where the roof was raised. They basically put in new windows and windshield. The roof is a molded section, and is basically tabbed on top of the cabin house. You can easily cut off the roof, and then extend up the sides of the cabin section, with premolded pieces, or put in newer larger windows. The only place there is a problem with geometry is the forward section where the windshield meets the top. You can go straight up, reverse shear--or put in larger windshield and change the geometry of the front (harder).

A good idea is to do mock up with cardboard. We did this when building boats--it is cheap and easy to do. That allows to get the geometry correct before you do any glass work.
 
Of all the places I want to see enlarged on my boat, the center section has never crossed my mind. Even though I can stand up in the center, I rarely stand there. For us, it is merely an area to pass by. The biggest obstacle is hitting your head on the rear of the roof. Adding half inch pipe foam helps there though.
 
If I raise the center only I was going to use 12 inch strips of masonite (as thataway mentioned) screwed to the outside of the removed top to make a mockup of the final product for fit. That way I am thinking I will be able to see how much more of the roof needs to be removed for the "New" final raised section that will be longer and wider due to the geometry of the angles. Hopefully that will leave the same look, except taller.

Then I was thinking I could wax the masonite, glass in place from inside, then finish the topside for cosmetics. I am thinking it will take more than one layer of glass on the inside and another on the topside.
 
Understand that Seabeagle! Once this is done I plan on button tucking the entire cabin with foam and vinyl (like a custom van headliner). I will double pad the aft bulk head. That way I will less likely require stiches when I forget to duck! :roll:
 
There are many forms of glass material. You want much more thickness than one layer (even of mat and 18 oz roving) for that laminate. There is a boat builder who lays up sheets of glass and core on waxed tables, then stitch and glue these panels together to make the hull form.

The "Sandwich" concept gives strength--for example you might put on the waxed masonite, with bondo radius, also faired and heavily waxed fillets, gel coat, then a layer of low imprint cloth or mat, a layer of 1708 biaxial, then core mat, or a 5 mm to 7 mm layer of core material, then a layer of mat, another layer of 1708 biaxial and then mat, gel coated on the inside, after fairing. (This is not a laminat schedule--and may not be strong enough--but is just an example and some things to begin thinking about). The sandwich material (nadicore, balsa, core mat all give bulk, and with cloth laminated on both sides, gives far more strenth than solid glass. It sounds as if this is not a surface you will be walking on, but will be holding up the raised section.

Remember that you do not want hard corners--you want rounded corners and well radiused curves as you join th old and new.

Yes, you can do the final fairing and gel coating after mold material is removed.
 
Really don't have any intentions to walk/stand on the roof, but I don't want to do anything that would risk integrity of the roof structure. You think coring this project would be best, of multiple layers of the appropriate glass?
 
Go sell the 16 and buy a 19 and be done with it 6ft 2in headroom in 19ft and 22 ft
 
Thought about buying up several times. Even pursued it on three vessels for sale. But, recently the wife and I gave it some serious thought and decided for the next several years, the 16 will service us well!

We live 12 miles up the Biloxi River. Most of our spur of the moment joy rides are to anyone of the several restaurants that are dockside in our area. Most of our Cruising is out to our barrier Islands (Horn, Ship, Cat, and Peti Bois Islands). It's a 25 mile trip one way from the house (bayou in the back yard). Our Island adventures consist of sleeping on board and setting up a campsite on the Island of our choice (Mosquito screen room loungers and hammocks when we choose a site with Oaks).

So! The choices are buy bigger used boat, or repower what we have and install a floating dock at our current dock. The latter won the argument of logic for us.

If we buy used again, it is like starting all over, going through everything and getting it just right. I will not buy new, done it on 5 different occasions and you loose several thousand driving off the lot. You also run the calculated risk of having to repower any used boat.

So we chose to repower and instead of just tying up to the 50 foot of dock in the back yard, we will put in a floating dock to keep Sweet Pea out of the water when at dock.

Raising the roof is just a personal creature comfort for me. Always have to have something to do for a fall/winter project, and this is the reason for exploring the possibilities. It won't "Kill me" if I don't do it, but it will drive me nots until I fully explore it and decide either to do it or forget about it forever. Right now I am thinking there is no reason not to go for it!
 
You sound like a man in need of a project. :wink
There are many good suggestions here. Some
would keep you busy for quite a while. :crook
Have you given any thought to a removable top,
or top section? A C-Dory Convertible, now that
would be a first. :smileo

Jack... :smiled
 
sweet pea-

How about cutting the roof off just below the brim, then adding sliding tubes attached to the roof that slide up and down in collars fastened inside the raised sections of the roof, a sort of vertically raisable roof that can retract to normal height?

You could use a Sunbrella collar snapped to the inside of the roof section at the top and to the outside at the bottom to keep it weather tight, and allow it to move up and down.

I've seen the vertically raisable top part, at least, on some smaller sailboats to adapt them to cruising and creating more room. I think the basic concept is referred to as a "pop-top"!

The biggest engineering/design problem would be keeping the tubes from becoming internal obstacles and head bangers! They would have to be in the corners only, probably.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I would use a thin core, for structural strength, rigidity and lightness.

The pop top is a great idea--also it could give better ventillation, especially if you had zip out pannels, and screen

The top is molded in one piece and just tabbed onto the cabin sides--it would be much eassier, and probably more structually sound to cut the tabbing with a fein type of blade than cut the entire structure of the cabin sides around the house.
 
I had a 1964 VW bus in California and put a 4X4 "pop top" in it. Kinda scary cutting that big hole in the top but it had all the canvas/screens built in. Don't know if they're still made but it was fiberglass and would fit that curved surface pretty well (probably).

Just looked a little on the internet. All the ones I saw were the kind that are hinged at the back of the van and come up at a 45degree angle. Mine was square and looked like a mushroom when it was up..

Charlie
 
Don't know if this helps due to the difference in vintage, but here's some info: I just now removed a vhf "cork seal" from the roof of my 85 16angler. Hole is centered in the roof on top. I had thought the roof was solid glass but it turned out to have a thin (1/8" or so) core between the glass layers. I ground it out with the Dremel ala Brazo and sealed it with the epoxy I had mixed up to seal my hatch cutout edges and screw holes. Good luck with your project if you decide to go through with it. Mike.
 
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