Ranger moving strong into the outboard market

B

BillE

New member
First the R23 and the C-24. Then Cutwater went big with a C30 "Sports Coupe". Now Ranger has announced their R272, which is the 27 with a Yamaha 300 on a bracket, which makes total sense to me as I'm not a diesel inboard guy. I said it makes sense, I didn't say that I could afford one!

I suppose that if C-Dory will not innovate then others will move in on their market.

But the tugnuts don't get excited about new stuff like the C-Brats do. A new model barely gets noticed over there. If C-Dory had just announced a new model we would be up to ten pages by now!
 
Bill, to your point about C Dory innovating. I always wonder why C Dory doesnt have a bigger offering. Like a 27 or 29 with a bigger beam. It seems that there are lots of Brats who move on to bigger boats because the CD's are capped at 25/26' with an 8'6 beam.

I understand that lots of Brats love trailering and need the smaller beam but why not still offer a bigger boat?

Although, i read somewhere here that NMI may be able to make a bigger hull as a custom order from an older mold or something? That would be nice but the general public wouldn't know that.
 
So Ranger is innovative because they are moving to more outboards, while C-Dory is not innovative because they already use outboards? Hmmm....? :roll:
 
I looked at Ranger's entire line up at the St Pete boat show a year or two ago. I like Rangers and they are NICE boats but for my tastes and needs I like the C-Dory better.
 
Ranger went from offering a two-model boat line in 2007 to the many options with Ranger Tugs and Cutwater Boats currently. Certainly some innovation, but beyond that, they are good at listening to their customer base and creating what that expanding customer base wants. Previously, they were all diesel products, but obviously saw a market segment that was not being addressed. They listen to their customers, they communicate with their customers. They expanded from the traditional tug-look to the more contemporary S models and the luxury cruiser style Cutwaters. Then, more recently, the outboard powered models.

There were some traditionalists that cried "Heresy!" with an outboard on a tug(ish) style boat... yet the market spoke and these have become good selling models for Ranger.

Because C-Dory and Ranger both offer cabin-style boats, there is bound to be some comparison. When it comes to customer service and understanding (and appreciating) the customer base, there is no comparison.

When someone here buys a new C-Dory it is news on this forum. From my perspective, the "C-Dory world" seems to revolve around used boats now. I am not saying that is a bad thing... it just is what it is. Ranger is smart enough to encourage new boat purchases AND welcomes used boat buyers into their fold. They offer reasons to "move up" and "move into."

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE C-Dorys... but the many different factory owners over the last decade simply missed the boat. And, Ranger welcomed those new boat buyers with open arms.

While Ranger has been expanding their model offerings, the "look what's new" news for C-Dory is: storage under the V-berth and a water pump switch near where the water is actually used. Both things that owners were calling for in 2007. No sour grapes on my part, just a feeling that C-Dory could have been where Ranger is now had they taken care of, listened to, and communicated with their customer base. A decade of missed opportunities.

If you want a C-Dory, nothing else will do. But if you want a boat that will take you on your dream trips, a boat built by people who listen to your wants, there are many other options out there.
 
Jim is SOOOOO RIGHT :thup :thup


and . . . . .

There was a bigger C-Dory.

It was a 29, Yup, and it went over like a lead brick floats.

The biggest mistake C-Dory did was splitting with Jeff Mesmer. He is customer oriented and the Ranger story is the proof.

I love my C-Dory, but then, I'm kind of in the Keep It Simple phase of life. It works for me, and for some others. C-Dory has had a chance to listen to their owners. I'd guess it is less than once in a blue moon that they peek in on this site. On the other hand, you can be sure, someone at Ranger is looking at TugNuts everyday.

Look at the Ranger advertising, they don't even try to sell the boats, they say "Come and join or Family". Something C-Dory hasn't recognized since the factory dinners in the old factory in Auburn.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
The powers that be at Ranger Tugs are just capitalizing on the phenomenal success of the R-23. They are obviously targeting the buyers who want an outboard on a bigger boat. When we spoke to Jeff Mesmer at the boat show in January, he confirmed that the R-23 is now the biggest seller in the whole Ranger Tug line and that they are building just those boats in the old Arima factory in Auburn. I would say that is certainly a huge success story.

I agree with Harvey. I don't think it's a coincidence that Ranger Tugs ascension and C-Dory's descension occurred at the time Jeff moved to Ranger Tugs after his split from the Reynolds-built C-Dory's. And like Jim said, it's big news when someone buys a new C-Dory.

On edit, I realize that the above paragraph is a bit simplistic. I realize that Scott Reynolds philosophy of forcing the dealers to carry new models on the lot with a significant financial investment (I forget the terminology, maybe Pat, Joe, Jim or any other C-Brat can step in) at the time the big recession hit also was a determining factor. Still, what is Ranger Tugs doing that C-Dory can try to do to sell more new C-Dorys? Is it marketing and upgrades? I don't know, any thought?

Peter
 
hardee":18w7cxev said:
Look at the Ranger advertising, they don't even try to sell the boats, they say "Come and join or Family". Something C-Dory hasn't recognized since the factory dinners in the old factory in Auburn.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
Click to expand...

"You meet the nicest people on a Honda" changed advertising forever.
 
Peter, I think the term you are looking for has to do with "flooring", and the forced inventory. Remember, that is why Less at EQ opted out of the dealers group.

You are right, it wasn't just Jeff, but for Ranger, he is a gold mine. AND a super nice guy.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

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Love C-Dorys and want one, that's why I'm here. But I am also boat shopping with my wife and she very much noticed how comfy the Rangers are. I was not interested because I don't want any inboard diesel. And just the that, Ranger addresses that market. If they had done so a few years back then I might be shopping for a used one, but the new R272s are beyond me and the 23, for me, is not an improvement over a C25.
Browsing here and over at tugnuts, I see former C-Dory owners who have moved up in size. Perhaps if C-Dory has something to offer then those people would have stayed in the family so to speak. That's my only point, I'm not knocking C-Dory at all. The 2017s I have seen, C-25 in photos here and Tomcat in person, look really nice.
But at new prices there is some serious competition these days.
 
BillE":3g6tlcj2 said:
Love C-Dorys and want one, that's why I'm here. But I am also boat shopping with my wife and she very much noticed how comfy the Rangers are. I was not interested because I don't want any inboard diesel. And just the that, Ranger addresses that market. If they had done so a few years back then I might be shopping for a used one, but the new R272s are beyond me and the 23, for me, is not an improvement over a C25.
Browsing here and over at tugnuts, I see former C-Dory owners who have moved up in size. Perhaps if C-Dory has something to offer then those people would have stayed in the family so to speak. That's my only point, I'm not knocking C-Dory at all. The 2017s I have seen, C-25 in photos here and Tomcat in person, look really nice.
But at new prices there is some serious competition these days.
Click to expand...

Have to admit I'm a Ranger/Cutwater fan who also did not want an inboard diesel. Now Ranger has several OB models all of which are hybrid cruise, fish, ski models. Kind of nice. And they have prices on their web site, how innovative :). Speaking of price, any idea what a new well equipped C-25 or TomCat goes for?
 
We spent some time checking out the Ranger 23 at the Savannah boat show. Really cool boat, that definitely gives C-dory a fight at its own game. The interior finish was great. I'd definitely be interested in one if I could afford it.
 
Jake, what I've found is somewhere close to $120K for a C-25 and well into the $160s for Tomcat, depending upon how they are rigged of course.
 
C-Dorys are great boats. They are definitely a niche. A niche that I think could have been greatly expanded. It isn't a contest to see who builds the most boats. Between the time we ordered our CD-25 (2006 Seattle Boat Show), and taking delivery (summer 2006, one of the first 2007 models), the company made some intentional changes... changes that put artificial separations between them and their customer base. No factory service. No factory sales. They stopped answering their phone with a live person and directed boat owners to contact their dealer (the factory was my dealer). E-mails went unanswered.

That business model tanked as the economy took a dive. The factory over-built what could be sold and tried to force dealers to stock more boats in order to keep the dealership. Doing this, they alienated dealers AND boat buyers. I heard one factory person say, "The dealer is our customer. We don't have time to deal with boat owners." I knew that was the kiss of death for the future of their business, and that's the way it played out. Unfortunately, the succession of factory entities didn't learn a thing from that situation.

It isn't about handing out some hats or doing a once-a-year factory party... it is about promoting to those who have boats, since they are a major presence to the public. Who here has NOT had people ask about their C-Dory?? At the ramp, on the road, out on the water, when pulling up to a dock for a lunch stop? They could have made the boat owners feel like we are part of the C-Dory experience, but they chose to slam that door shut.

Boat builders, who thought that was enough. Factory higher-ups who thought it was about fiberglass and boat parts, and not about people's pride of ownership and dreams. They missed the point. Not many of us HAVE to have a boat, but many have that burning desire to have a boat.

Thanks to the C-Brats, there are gatherings all around the country. Thanks to the C-Brats, there is a place to find out about these great boats. Thanks to the C-Brats there are still people talking about C-Dorys. When the different factory entities couldn't find their way to get a boat in the Seattle Boat Show (truly, the premier showcase for those who want a tough PNW type boat), many of us mourned their short-sightedness.

Marc Grove from Wefings has made real efforts to get these boats in front of the public. Last I heard, he still stocks some. BUT, anyone who wants to buy a new C-Dory has to make a real effort to get it done. I know there are a couple dealers in the PNW, but what do they have for a perspective buyer to actually view? And, how many people are coming through their doors, waving money, saying they want a new C-Dory?

Read the TugNuts from time to time, and you will regularly read about people ordering and taking delivery of new boats. And the factory giving those people a lengthy orientation on those boats. Making them feel comfortable and providing support. They have rabidly loyal customers, just like this group is about our C-Dorys... the difference is how each factory cultivates (or doesn't) those boat owners.

I have said I wouldn't go down this road again, but I find it so frustrating when the discussion turns to C-Dory and Ranger Tugs. The C-Dorys are a unique boat. They aren't "second best" to other boats out there, but the factory (non)relationship with customers sure isn't working in their favor. You would think someone at the factory would have realized that it takes more than just building a good boat... you have to truly care about the people who buy (and continue to buy) boats.

Jeff is definitely an asset for Ranger. I bought my boat from him when he was with C-Dory. He is certainly a good guy, but not the only guy out there who knows and promotes customer service. Ranger has a bunch of them. A damn shame that C-Dory seems to not appreciate the value that a customer service oriented person would bring to the table. Maybe the current C-Dory factory is happy making what they are making for boats right now - I don't claim to have an inside view there. But, as a guy who no longer has a dog in this fight, I see no public evidence that anything has changed at C-Dory.

I'm one of those guys that likes something new once in a while... that smell of fresh fiberglass in the morning. I don't think I'm alone out here. Ranger simply understands that people will buy new boats if you create that desire in them. That may not be "innovation," but it is very smart business. And, they are offering more models (and power options) to bring buyers into their fold.
 
C-Dory is built by a manufacturer (Northwest Marine Industries) who builds a wide line of boats: C-Dory, Osprey, Orca, Sea Sport and Tomcat. They are manufactures only and do limited advertisement, depending on their dealers and the C-Brats. Some of their boats lines compete with each other: Orca and Sea Sport. Also, I understand they have a lease or a royalty with some of their boats (C-Dory for instance.) And they have a limited manufacturing facility (Google it.)

Contrast that with Ranger Tugs with 2 separate lines, one a tug type and the other a sporty type, both appealing to the retired boat owner who wants all the conveniences and has the money. The Ranger Tug models don't overlap. And they do have a tremendous advertising program and are willing to expand.

Different business models. One wants to build boats. The other wants to sell boats. I hope both are successful.

Now to compare C-Dory's to the Ranger Tug. Lets use the 25's as an example. I looked at a Ranger Tug several years after I got Journey On. Basically they're 2 different boats. The Ranger Tug has all the bells and whistles (fore and aft thrusters, lined inside,) The C-Dory is minimalist, but I hear that it's more seaworthy. I prefer the C-Dory line; the longer I keep it the more certain I am that I have the right boat for me. Both are good boats for their owners, you take your choice.

I expect that when they quit selling C-Dorys they will quit building them. And they're building a steady stream. But we're not hearing about them because the dealers don't have to let the C-Brats know.

I'd love to hear Wefing's comment on this discussion. Or any other C-Dory dealer.

Boris
 
A lot of C-Dory owners are x-sailors. Sailors (historically) = Cheap. Who would agree that most C-Dory owners are thrifty (for lack of a better term)?

I think Ranger people like to throw more money around and are a little flashier. You can make more money off of people who like flash.
 
Ken, in case I didn't say it before, congrats on your new CD-25! :thup

We were sailors before getting our CD-25 in 2006. There were several folks on here at the time who had previously owned Corsair trimarans (us included)... most sailors would not consider those cheap... BUT, they do return a higher percentage of the purchase price when it comes time to sell.

I know when we bought our 25, Jeff also suggested that we might look at the then new Ranger 25 Tug that was a brief marketing situation between C-Dory and Ranger Tugs. Yes, for a very brief time, they were called C-Ranger Tugs. They didn't have a completed Ranger boat at that time... but, there was no question for us: we were there to buy a C-Dory. We wrote the check - it wasn't cheap. And I'm guessing that just over a decade later, your 2017 CD-25 wasn't cheap, either. :wink:

I don't think of C-Dory owners as cheap or even frugal... practical is the word I have always used. I wouldn't consider the C-Dory boats to have a lot of "flash," but they are stout and get the job done. There is room for owner mods that make these boats even more practical.

Ranger has done a great job of making a boat that is turnkey, with power and exterior designed to impress men, and interiors that look finished and rich (to impress everyone).

I was concerned that my wife wouldn't be in favor of the C-Dory interior. When we first got inside one at the boat show, she said, "This should be easy to keep clean." Practical. She was sold. She picked the 25 over the 22 because of the extra room and amenities. Practical, for us. But... not cheap.

Not cheap to operate or maintain. Certainly more practical (and economical) than many boats. And, the adventures to be had are priceless.

Jim
 
I sure love both of my C-dories. One is towed easily with a 4-cylinder car, the other with a 1/2 ton pickup or SUV. C-Dory and Ranger/Cutwater are entirely different categories of boats and companies. One is a low-production, light-weight, flat-bottomed, fast-planning, economical-to-operate (yet highly seaworthy) boat, the other a heavy, well-equipped, plush, and quickly becoming a mass-produced cruiser.

As the saying goes, every boat is a compromise and for my boating style, taste in design aesthetics, and preference for simplicity and seaworthiness...and the reason I'm here on C-Brats with all of you...C-dory is still the ultimate pocket cruiser and I have yet to find a model by ANY manufacturer that compares directly with a C-dory 16, 19, 22 Cruiser, or 23 Venture. Marinaut 21' would be right in there but as far as I know they aren't in production at the moment, and used ones are rare despite there being 2 currently for sale (what are there, about 10 that have been produced total?).

Now, if I was looking at a C-dory 25 Cruiser or larger then personally I probably wouldn't be trailering (and I'd also have a larger budget!) and therefore other heavier makes/models would be worth looking at, (although I'd probably still lean towards the C-dory line given the other options discussed in this thread, for similar reasons discussed above).

-Mike
 
Last year at the C-Brats gathering (Seattle Boat Show) the factory rep did spend a little time. From what he and other have implied I got the impression that the factory was trouble making a profit on the 22 foot boat. And also the impression (politely made) that they really don't have the time or interest to deal with used boat owners.
 
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