Re-routing shower

B

baboos_boat

New member
I spoke to Richard Reynolds at the factory today discussing modifications on a TC. One modification I am strongly considering is to eliminate the water based marine toilet and replacing with the composting system discussed on other forums.

Now the shower. Is there any reason the hot water routing could not be so I could hook up a shower over the swim platform between the engines? What I woud like (or I am thinking its a good idea) is to have the hot water "tap" around the transome area. Then with some pvc piping I would rig a shower off the back.

My motivation is to avoid all possible water usage and leaks associated with typical marine toilets and showers.

With no toilet or shower the holding tank becomes un-needed. Could that area be used for something else? Like storage?

Any thoughts at this early stage of purchase would be much appreciated.
 
I'm just gonna throw this out as a possibility knowing it wouldn't work if you're in salt water or ya aren't fond of salt water showers....

The newer Yamaha's have a hose flushing bib just below the engine cowl. A small hose and hand held shower head attached to this bib results in a comfortably warm shower as long as the engine is warmed up and running.
 
No reason that wouldn't work, if you can get the factory to do that custom work for you. From my point of view, it's nice to have that shower box in the head... there may be times when you don't want to scare your neighbors and have a bit more privacy while showering. Or, you may be in colder weather and an outside shower could be more than refreshing. Or the wave action where you are anchored may be such that showering behind the cockpit could be interesting: one hand for you, one for the boat, one for the soap??? :wink:

One of the features that appeals to folks with these boats is that enclosed head with a shower - it could hurt resale value to eliminate that inside shower. Just some food for thought.

Good luck with the purchase process.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Thanks for the posts. I was not aware of the Yamaha possibility but since I am a Honda guy I will hope Honda will do the same.

Re-sell is always important and that is something to keep in mind. I understand the disadvantages of showering on the outside - but most of the showering will be done in protective coves in Alaska. If I am in port then I perfer the Harbor Master or campground shower facility.

But what I am encourged about thus far is there are no technical reasons why the swim platform idea won't work.

Thank you.
 
JamesTXSD":1mctn7xr said:
showering behind the cockpit could be interesting: one hand for you, one for the boat, one for the soap??? :wink:
Jim B.
Click to expand...

Certainly could be interesting......especially with an extra set of hands... :wink ......perhaps not a bad idea at all :lol:
 
The resell value is of a concern but I suspect this boat will be with me a long time so the concern is lessened.

Given our type of boating the shower would be used only on rare occurrences under ideal situations such as a secluded Alaska cove. (Not too cold all of the time.) One cøncern I have thought about is the "bath water" going overboard. I suppose one could figure how to be enviornmentally acceptable but the thought of "polluting" the ocean has me double thinking.

The other option is to plumb for shower and water based head but simply not use the shower and install the composting toilet. That still leaves an unused holding tank.
 
Lori Ann":11erno29 said:
You should ask Pat Anderson what he did when he had the factory build his 25 with an AirHead.

Warren
Click to expand...

Yah, Pat loves airheads. Dare I mention Baxter, furball with tongue? :mrgreen:

Personally I'm in El & Bill's camp. A marine head is more trouble than it's worth unless (and maybe only if) you're a full time liveaboard.

Don
 
The shower sump is a somewhat small box or pan with a lid on it - it is not really a holding tank. you can minimize problems with it by putting a metal scouring pad or pet hair strainer over the shower stall drain area. The shower sump is located under a floor panel under the galley sink cabinet, so not much extra storage there.

The problem with a leaking shower faucet was related to weak, long, nylon barb fittings which could work loose on the faucet unit threads. You can eliminate that problem by connecting the hoses directly upon the shower faucet threads, or putting metal barb/thread adaptors in place.

The C-Dory factory says they have been getting the weak nylon fittings as part of a "kit" from the shower supplier, and they are requesting better adapters, so I don't think there is much risk to you in leaving the shower where it is.

You can easily purchase transom shower units which fit in their own, recessed pocket with cap in place when not in use, and simply run extra hot and cold hoses from "tees" in the factory supplied lines.

I take two or three showers a week in my TomCat and have not had any problems since tossing the weak nylon adaptors.

The Sealand head installed by the factory is easy to operate and keep clean, but has only 9 gallons holding which is right there in full view and easy to fix if a problem arises. Putting a ball valve on the incoming flush water supply line would give you many more flushes.

I had a couple of drips from loose connections on the macerator/pumpout "Y' thing, which were easy to clean up and fix by tightening the clamps. I don't think there is a terrible problem with the supplied head. However, I like to boat all winter long, and I have been thinking the Air Head would allow me to use the toilet during months the pumpout dock is closed.

Remember, with the Air Head, you have to dump the liquid frequently. It is not as clean and simple as a good pumpout station. You also have to unbolt and dump the solids periodically, so the Air Head is not a sterile, hands off operation. You have to keep a fan going all the time on the Air Head vent pipe so the solids will not smell bad and will compost. If someone inadvertently gets alot of liquid into the Air Head solid compartment, you will have to scrape that muck out.

Nothing is perfect. I do think that, when I was in your position of carefully evaluating all the desired equipment, I was super critical of systems that have turned out to be little or no problem.

If you get the factory supplied Sealand Traveler head unit, it would be easy to later change that out for an Air Head or Porta Potty, but if you don't get the Sealand unit initially, the later installation would be a bit expensive and time consuming.

Good luck... lots of choices!

John
 
John - I think the suggestion in your last sentence is exactly what I will do. I also appreciate your comments about making too much out of too little a problem. Obviously many CD owners have the standard setup and it works. I still am looking preferentially into the composter.

Thanks to all for your comments.
 
baboos....

After I wrote that, I thought it might seem kind of harsh, but I was sweating every little detail during those months the boat was being made.

I am leaning toward the Air Head myself, as you may have noted in some other posts. With the Air Head you are not at the mercy of the local dock's pumpout facililities, and I doubt it could smell any worse than a poorly maintained or leaking holding tank system.

As I mentioned, if it had been an option, I would have had the Air Head installed right up front.

John
 
Did not take your comments as anything but helpful. When my CD22 was made I did not know enough to be on pins and needles. Now that I am aware of all the things that can go wrong in the making as well as with the choices we make, the TC will be a nerve wracking experience. I will no doubt be depending on C-Brats to ameliorate the anxiety.
 
Thanks to Brent and Dixie, Bob of Thataway, and many others who have preceded us, most of the early problems TomCats had are a thing of the past.

The early trailer loading and launching was tough, now you can drive right up to the stop. The early water tanks and batteries could leave a list, now things are pretty squared away in that vein. Early fuel fills and vents had problems, today's are a breeeze. I am pretty certain you will have very few problems, and most likely no serious problems. I have friends who can't believe I got a new boat with all those systems with such a few fixes needed.

Well, I'm off to the lake!!! see you all Monday! This is the great part of a TomCat!

John
 
See Photo #17 in the Thataway Album (sorry but I cannot post it from the router I am using). This shows the shower on the transom of "Thataway".
It works fine. We asked the factory to run the hoses, they refused, so we ran them ourselves--took about an hour or two. We always have a small line in back of the head and cockpit pannel for running wires and hoses.
Don't consider using PVC pipes, use the vinly hoses and a good quality shower fittings.

We shower on the transom bracket, as well as inside. Agree with other comments. Consider that with the composting toilet you are still discharging urine--which is sterile and not environmentally a problem in areas with circulation. There is always the possibility of discharging urine separately even with a holding tank...and saving the capacity of the tank for environmentally sensatative items... It is rare that we don't either pump out or be at sea where we can legally discharge the 9 gallon holding tank.

I agree get the boat with the Sea Land toilet--it is very easy to maintain and works very well.
 
Thank you Bob. I have looked at your photos number of times but never connected the one on the shower installation being exactly what I have in mind.

Question on the hose which connects the shower head to the hot water supply line. How long is it and where does it coil into when not in use?
 
On my TC 24 I did have the shower hooked up on the transom and it was great. Not only for taking a shower, but when you beached your boat and/or the kids from boats on the hook with you came off the muddy islands and wanted to play in the back of that boat you could get all wet.... you could have them clean the mud off PRIOR to them coming into the cockpit. Folks must have thought I was a Baptist Preacher with all the foot washings I had on that boat!!

Sorry, but some old pics do not really show the unit, but it is the same one (I think) that is now in the phone booths of the TC25 & CD25. Had an access hole for working plumbing from inside the boat, but the access to the shower unit was outboard, and in the aft facing forward picture, you can just barely see the top left corner of the unit around the starboard motor. No reason you can not have two units on the boat. It is just a bit of plumbing...that needs to be done right the first time.

Doubt me ever having another boat without an "out back" shower. Those phone booths are simply too restrictive for me....heats/steams up the cabin, and when it is real cold outside...how often do you really take a full shower when cruising....about every time you stop at a marina and re-fuel,

Byrdman


Rails_Dive_Platform.jpg

Copy_of_PerrrFect_Motors.jpg
 
Thanks Byrdman. Pictures very helpful.

You are right on about the showers. Some folks do use shower a lot but others not. We travel a good deal in our BigFoot cabover camper and have not taken a shower in it yet. The campground showers are there every night and soooo much nicer.
 
The ideal feature of the shower I have on the transom, is that both the valve (sort of a jog stick, which rotates to trun hot and cold--and side to side to turn on and off, plus the head, which has a use valve in it are at the deck level and nothing to be tangled in anchor or fishing lines etc. You want to keep obstructions at the back of the boat to a minumum.

The hot and cold water come from near the water pump, under the galley floor, along the cockpit and to the transom. This is about 10 to 11 feet. I used 1/2" hose--3/8" hose would have been adequate. There is a little less water waste with the smaller hose. I don't have a bypass valve in this set up, but in our cruising boats we did. That way, the water went back into the tank, until it was hot from the water heater. It would be fairly easy to put such a valve in the Tom Cat.

I am not at home, so I cannot show you photos of where I "T" off the shower, but will after I return home in a week.
 
Baboo.... On second thought, as Dr. Bob mentions, you could have quite an increased "range" on the 9 gallon holding tank by putting liquids in a gallon jug and dumping them. The Air Head has I think 2 gallon liquid, so has to be dumped frequently.

John
 
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