Repairing holed hull while underway

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Nick & Marvin, this water activated fiberglass sounds great, I'm still trying to figure out if it would work on a hole, everything I see online so far talks about using it for wrapping pipes. In your guys experience could you make a patch that would adhere from the exterior of the boat hull with this? I'm going to check out the West Systems Maxi Pack. I'm guessing I can find the epoxy putty at West Marine?

Thanks[/quote]

John the only time I have used it was on and 1 1/4 galvanized pipe. I wrapped it around the pipe and it adhered to itself and the pipe really well. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work on a hull in and emergency situation. I expect you might have to rough up the fiberglass first.
 
One of the great things about the CD22 is it's simplicity. If you were to get holed it should not be too hard to get to. Don't know what would happen if it was under the vberth where hopefully it is filled with foam.

In the rest of the boat you can move stuff and get to almost any part of the bottom. From boating articles I have read stuffing a hole with some kind of material such as foam or blankets has been the best solution, if you have time.

I really like the nerf football idea - have to get a couple. Sounds like a good idea even for my kayak.

Steve
 
Well, here what I have ordered so far tonight from Fisheries Supply in Seattle,

1 thru hull pine plug to fit the single seacock
West Systems Maxi Pack
QuikStix Epoxy Putty Stick

I am going to find a regular Nerf football and a Nerf Jr football to keep on board. (Have to search local, too expensive to ship the resin.) I'm going to pick up some water activated fiberglass too.

I'm not ready to stop shopping, still interested in any other ideas.
 
John

I respect your position on sat phones and self reliance, but must say if you can afford it I personally think its a mistake not to have one aboard when attempting a cruise such as you are planning. When I used to go out and about in what most would consider extreme and dangerous outings by myself they were not available and most likely still wouldn't have got one if they were. Eight years ago when Jo-Lee starting going with me on exploration trips in the outback of the Yukon and Northwest Territories in a 12.5 foot RIB my attitude changed. It didn't feel right for me to put Jo-Lee at risk if something should happen to me or us that could be easily prevented, so at that time though we could hardly afford it we spent $1500 on the sat phone option. I would pre program into the phone the numbers of the nearest RCMP and the head district before leaving. Now they can be leased for just the time period needed for a fraction of that cost. Thankfully we have never needed to use it, but having the option is such a relief on my mind in regards to the responsibility I feel for leading Jo-Lee into these areas we both love to go that its worth every cent. The last thing I hope ever to do is make that emergency call and with all the places we have gone since the purchase of the phone without having to make that call should say alot about the pre planning and execution that goes into these trips that I do relate personally to self reliance. Hope this doesn't sound to much like preaching, cause I don't like it when its done to me, but the sat phone is something I really feel strongly about and feel I should let you know. You are planning a fantastic cruise, but the risks especially in that outer coast section are very high and I can't think of another safety item that could be more important to have aboard.

When going down the outer coast I hope you consider checking out Sister Lake. Would love to hear another's opinion about the area.

Will be adding the nerfballs on future trips. What a quick easy cheap workable fix to a possible hull breach. Thanks to you and Mike-Sealife, for the idea.

Jay
 
Jay, wow you definitely feel strongly about the sat phone and are passionate about it. No, I don't feel like you're preaching, more like a plea. I have felt real comfortable previously with our ACR PLB, it does communicate thru satellites, but it is more of a one way communication device, although it is preregistered with our trip info. Your posting sent me off to E-bay pricing phones. I'm familiar with leasing of sat phones and even have one already reserved for a fly-out float hunt trip in Aug. in ANWR I don't have a good explaination of why I felt the need for the phone for that trip, but not this one. Your input is appreciated and respected.

YES, sister lakes are on our loose itinerary. I hope to have something put together soon on our website with some of our planning and screenshots of our planned route.

John
 
John,

Another angle on this topic would be a forward facing scanning sonar. Perhaps others can comment on the cost and reliability of such a device.

I wish I was making the trip. I wish I had your boat.

Jim
 
John

I just viewed your website, which I should have done before offering advice or suggestions of any kind. You are most generous in your acceptance of advice from me with your now to me obvious ability to plan and do these kind of adventures with a outstanding proven track record on dealing with emergency situations in just the right way to have the best chance of a good outcome. The same ability that is called for in your job profession is aptly demonstrated in your adventures. Would be difficult to improve on your judgement and reaction in dealing with the bear situation and really shows you and your wife have what it takes to do the kind of adventuring you do.

Really enjoyed the canoe trip video with slide show. Have too spent some wonderful times in this way.

Have no concern with you and your wife's personal judgement and choices in your planning in making this cruise a success other than the normal excepted risk of such an adventure. Really looking forward to its completion and the account of it on your website.

Jay
 
Jim Garner":296e5pgm said:
John,

Another angle on this topic would be a forward facing scanning sonar. Perhaps others can comment on the cost and reliability of such a device.

I wish I was making the trip. I wish I had your boat.

Jim
Click to expand...

I purchased a forward scanning sonar for SeaDNA when I got the boat (an Interphase SeaScout unit). My general feeling is that if you're going fast enough to put a hole in the boat, the sonar won't be of much use. I've found it useful for tentative, slow approaches to structure but in general, I wish I had bought a less expensive sonar that would be better for fishing (like a Lowrance). Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Some decent boat electronics stores will rent you a Sat phone for a certain period of time. Much cheaper than purchasing.

That new "Spot" satellite communication device gives you the ability to send out a "911" request for assistance and cancel it if necessary as I recall from their web site. It can also send out a non-emergency request for assistance.

I can also verify that if you go into the water up here in SE Alaska without a wet or dry suit, even in summer, you have about five minutes worth of control over your body. After that five minutes, your system is more interested in survival than following your directions to move this hand or that arm. So I would recommend a system of plugging holes that can be done from the inside if at all possible.
 
Agree, unless you are going to spend more than the boat is worth sonar will not be the answer. It is only good for short distances. (Except the $65,000 Furuno true scanning sonar).

We always carried "Splash Zone Compound" which is an underwater epoxy. Also plenty of epoxy and glass cloth on our long distance boats.

However, the best repair material to have is plywood, and "Great Stuff" foam. I have seen this used on some mighty big holes on hurricane damaged boats. A couple pieces of both 3 mm door skins and some 1/4" or even 3/8" plywood, put in with screws (a hand drill will provide the holes, and should be in the tool kit)--just screw into the good glass. Then caulk with the "Great Stuff--actually put the Great Stuff on the plywood as you start to screw it on. Also carry a saw.

I was on a boat which hit a container at 8 knots--it was 3" balsa cored and the outer 3/8" skin was broken, the core was impacted, but the inner core deflected and was not breached. I suspect that the same thing will happen with the Tom Cat and cored bottom. It could happen, but I think that your chances of putting a significant hole in the boat are minimal...Plugs are fine for thru hulls, but not tears. The Nerf ball works--but needs to be covered with glass etc shortly--the plywood will last until you get to safety.
 
Hunkydory":1oz7qzmj said:
John

I just viewed your website, which I should have done before offering advice or suggestions of any kind. You are most generous in your acceptance of advice from me with your now to me obvious ability to plan and do these kind of adventures with a outstanding proven track record on dealing with emergency situations in just the right way to have the best chance of a good outcome. The same ability that is called for in your job profession is aptly demonstrated in your adventures. Would be difficult to improve on your judgement and reaction in dealing with the bear situation and really shows you and your wife have what it takes to do the kind of adventuring you do.

Really enjoyed the canoe trip video with slide show. Have too spent some wonderful times in this way.

Have no concern with you and your wife's personal judgement and choices in your planning in making this cruise a success other than the normal excepted risk of such an adventure. Really looking forward to its completion and the account of it on your website.

Jay
Click to expand...

Jay, thank you for the kind words, I hope we will make it thru this trip living up to the high expecations you have for us. :D I'm glad you enjoyed the website. I wish I would make myself put more time into it. I've started posting some of the trip planning and route maps for this trip on it and should have some intersting things to see soon. Thanks, John
 
thataway":2ta49tdy said:
However, the best repair material to have is plywood, and "Great Stuff" foam. I have seen this used on some mighty big holes on hurricane damaged boats. A couple pieces of both 3 mm door skins and some 1/4" or even 3/8" plywood, put in with screws (a hand drill will provide the holes, and should be in the tool kit)--just screw into the good glass. Then caulk with the "Great Stuff--actually put the Great Stuff on the plywood as you start to screw it on. Also carry a saw.
Click to expand...

Bob,

Now you're talking! That is a great idea that is almost too simple, easily done from the outside of a Tomcat too. Now what to do with all these Nerf balls I bought today. :D

My leatherman even includes an awesome little saw. This would probably be a repair done best on the beach or a tidal rack. (Do they still make hand drills?) Drilling holes in the fiberglass could be challenging otherwise underwater. I'll look thru my plywood pile and put a couple smaller pieces on the boat.

Thanks
 
Chivita":24sdqwy6 said:
I can also verify that if you go into the water up here in SE Alaska without a wet or dry suit, even in summer, you have about five minutes worth of control over your body. After that five minutes, your system is more interested in survival than following your directions to move this hand or that arm. So I would recommend a system of plugging holes that can be done from the inside if at all possible.
Click to expand...

The only place on my Tomcat's hull that is quickly accessible are the most forward part of the pontoons, which would also happen to be the most likely to be holed, otherwise it would take hours to get at any other portion.

As far as getting in the water, I think I would gladly put on my Stearns Survival suit and get in the water to make a repair that might keep the boat afloat instead of putting my survival suit on a little later, laying in the water and watching it sink. Given a choice.
 
Great subject and replies. Never knew there was an immediate solution to one of my greatest nightmares....hitting dead-head at 25 mph.

Bought a nerf football today. Looked a little odd in my boat basket.

-Greg
 
John,

If the forward portions of the Tom Cat hull are accessible and are the most likely to be holed, consider making those areas into a sealed box. A 'top' could be made of glassed ply with an inspection/access port. A hole in that area would only flood that one bow 'box' and the boat would not sink. If you don't want to use those areas for storage, foam could be placed into the 'box' to minimise flooding. If the 'top' is made and glassed in strongly, it becomes a horizontal bulkhead and strengthens the bow area. Some offshore boats divide the hull into compartments that are sealed off from each other to minimize flooding potential.
 
Larry H":14exn15y said:
John,

If the forward portions of the Tom Cat hull are accessible and are the most likely to be holed, consider making those areas into a sealed box. A 'top' could be made of glassed ply with an inspection/access port. A hole in that area would only flood that one bow 'box' and the boat would not sink. If you don't want to use those areas for storage, foam could be placed into the 'box' to minimise flooding. If the 'top' is made and glassed in strongly, it becomes a horizontal bulkhead and strengthens the bow area. Some offshore boats divide the hull into compartments that are sealed off from each other to minimize flooding potential.
Click to expand...

Larry, interesting thought. I have a friend that built a 32' aluminum boat with multiple sealed compartments in the floor.

We rely on these areas for LOTS of storage. This is where you will find our survival suits, 600 spare feet of anchor line, etc.

I would loose out on valuable storage space if I glassed them over, even with some access hatches. I kind of like the access to the area where damage is more likely to occur too. If prepared for the possibility, I think quick access will be advantageous if holed.

I do see your point also though. I just think having the access to make a speedy repair outweighs it.

Thanks,
John
 
John,

Consider if a 6 in x 6 in hole is poked in the bow area below the waterline while you are travelling 10-20 knots. The amount of water that will flood into the hull may swamp you before you can stop the boat. However, if that area is sealed in a box, only that area will flood and the boat should still be operable and habitable. If your survival suits are there you may not be able to get to them. Alaska fishermen have told me to store the survival suits either inside or outside the cabin door to ensure access in an emergency.

Repairing a 6" x 6" hole would best be made from the outside of the hull when it is out of the water, so there would be no need to make a repair from the inside.

If you should require access, the covered area could be made of a removable panel, screwed and sealed, so it could be removed with tools to access the back side of any repair.

Larry H
 
Larry is right a 6x6 hole would be unstopable and would likely sink the boat before you could even react.

Cook ran the Endeavour into Australias Great Barrier Reef at night sailing full spead in what they thought was the open ocean. She suffered a similiar sized hull breach. Miracously they were saved by a piece of coral that broke off the reef and remained in the breached hull, and at least slowed the onslought of seawater until they were able to beach the ship to repair the leak.

A one inch hole below the water line will allow some where near 40 gallons of water per minute to enter the hull. Do the math but things look grim unless you have watertight compartments in your boat.

We carry an iridium sat phone when we are long distance cruising - great for restaraunt reservations in French Polynesia and I always thought I could call my mommy if I crashed on a reef.
Best
Eric
 
Thanks guys, I'm sure you're right, a big hole will sink it quick, but I'm not ready to glass it up yet. The compartments aren't huge and might not even sink the boat if full of water.

A friend of mine who reads on the forum but hasn't posted much sent me an e-mail with a suggestion from an old commercial fishing buddy. He recommended a product called splash zone. I searched around the internet and found that this is a two part epoxy putty made specifically for repairing hulls, even underwater. It is expensive, in fact West Marine sells it for double what everyone else does. Ffisheries Supply of Seattle sells it for around $76, cosists of two parts, 1 qt in each can. http://www.fisheriessupply.com/onli...01/Ntx/mode+matchpartial+rel+Inactive/Ntk/All

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