Replacing anchor rode and chain

[browntdb]

We bought Tortuga del Mar in January. She is a 22 ft. Cruiser. She came with 250 ft. of 7/16 3-strand nylon rode, 12 feet of 3/8 regular chain and a Northstar 7.5kg (16lb) anchor. The rode has one of the three strands severely frayed at the 90 ft. level. We have no other anchors.

Here is my thinking and would like to get feedback from those of you who especially cruise Puget Sound.

1. The 12 foot chain is too short so will replace with 20 ft. of G4 1/4.

2. The rode needs to be replaced. I like the feel of double braid so will replace with high quality 7/16 double braid - 250 feet long. I know it does not stretch as much as 3-strand but not sure I need maximum stretch in Puget sound when anchored in sheltered areas.

3. I will continue to use the existing anchor.

4. The rode that is coming off the boat will be cut at the frayed point leaving a 90 foot and 160 ft. length of line that I thought I could use with a secondary anchor for the stern in situations where I don't want the boat swinging around when anchored in shallower water.

5. Not sure what kind of secondary anchor to buy.

The three strand rode I have now has depth markers through the braid every 30 feet. I liked that idea but with double braid that won't work. I found the following link for those with double braid or all chain rode. It is a great system for marking rode depth. I thought I would use three colors of tape on the double braid.

http://www.yandina.com/AnchChain.htm

Does all this make sense?

Thanks, Terry

 

[browntdb]

The existing chain is 3/16 in. not 3/8.

 

[Dreamer]

Terry,

A few thoughts on anchoring in the PNW, others will disagree, but this is my experience. More chain! If I had it to do over, I'd use 100'! We had 50' of 1/4" HT and it was wonderful. With a 22# Delta FastSet on the TomCat, it never, ever failed to set and hold. With a 35# on our Krogen and 300' of 5/16" chain, it never, ever failed to set and hold. That's in 12 years of boating the PNW!

If you ever think of getting a windlass, the double braid will not work in the Gypsy. I prefer the 3 strand for anchor rode.

A lightweight anchor like the Fortress or Guardian makes a good back-up or stern anchor,. They can be broken down and stored in a small space.

In the past, I have sprayed the rode heavily for a foot at various lengths with red, green, blue, etc. and made a laminated reference card to keep at the helm and on deck. The paint lasted for several seasons.

The definitive book on Anchoring is "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" by Earl Hinz.

Enjoy the area, it's the best cruising there is!

 

[starcrafttom]

I will also say More chain. I had 10 ft on the 22 and it dragged all the time. I went to 25 ft and the dragging stopped. It also set faster and on the first try.

When we got the 27 I went with 80ft and I love it. Never drags and the weight keeps the boat closer to the anchor. If you are going to a lot more chain you will want a windlass.

 

[colobear]

Hi Terry,

Congratulations on the new boat. I agree with Roger and Tom about chain. A sort of general rule is a chain at least as long as the boat. We have 35' of 1/4bbb chain and 300' of 3 strand line on our 22. I am not familiar with a northstar anchor, the only one I find is a grapnel type more suitable for a "lunch hook" than something to trust your boat (and maybe lives) to. We started with a Bruce then went to a Delta when the Bruce had trouble in kelp. Our spare anchor is a fortress, easy to store. I have never put a stern anchor out, so can't comment about them other than to be careful. There are too many stories about bad results. Some windlasses will handle braided line but if you think you might get one it might be work checking first.

 

[Sunbeam]

Since you are replacing the rode, and you like the hand of braid, perhaps consider Yale Brait (or another octoplait). It's a single braid that's aimed at being anchor rode - it stows very compactly in the locker, length for length as compared to 3-strand (and I would think double braid).

I come from all-chain rode, so I certainly like "more chain!" However, I restrained myself and got 25' of 1/4" G4 for the 22 (size was chosen because it will work in a windlass if I add one), along with 200' of 1/2" Brait. If I cruise someplace with very deep anchorages (such as BC), that might become my secondary rode and I'd get another with more chain and more rope (?). Of course I wanted 275' of all chain but then I also wanted the bow of the boat to float :wink:

On the chain you have: What grade is it? BBB, G3, G4? Even in G4 (strongest of the three I mentioned), I don't know that I'd be comfortable with 3/16" Actually, when you look up the specs, chain is weaker than you'd think (or at least it surprised me). Also, the weight helps form a caternary on the rode, so super light chain is not necessarily a great thing. Another issue is finding a shackle that is not an overly "weak link." With 1/4" chain, the shackle is the weak link, but it's still adequate from what I can tell. Not sure what sort of shackle you can fit in 3/16" chain (In 1/4 I can fit a 5/16" but the best I can find is a Crosby orange pin - not a High Test - so it's still the weaker link.) Having it be the weakest link is okay as long as it is still strong enough.

I like good ground tackle because I'm a worrier, and I don't like to lie awake at night any more than necessary! Of course it has to be balanced with itself (no extremely weak links) and with the size of the boat.

Sunbeam

 

[thataway]

Terry said he was going to G4 (or high test) 1/4" chain. That should be find for the 22. My 22 came with 100 feet of chain...too much for the 22. With a windlass 50 feet is a good length. The longer length of chain is more difficult without a windlass. With our larger boats we went with 150 to 200 feet of chain--and the rest rope rode (up to 400 feet). If going to Brait, I might consider more than 250 feet in the PNW, because some areas are deep anchorages, plus higher tides as you go further North (especially if you get to AK).

As for the current line--definately keep it. There are several ways to splice the ends together. I prefer a short splice--it is easier, but bulkier, than a long splice. I like to have the line well serviced with a long spice.

I carry several Guardian anchors 6 to 7# is plenty for the stern anchor. I am not a fan of the Claw type (which I believe the Northstar is one of), but it is popular in the PNW. I like the Ronca or Manson Supreme--then the Delta.

We always carry a significant amount of extra anchor rode stowed away under the dinette foot rest, as well as the extra prop and anchors there. If you end up anchoring in 100 feet, or need to take 250 feet to shore for a stern anchor--better to have it ready to go.

 

[Sunbeam]

Terry said he was going to G4 (or high test) 1/4" chain. That should be find for the 22.

I somehow blanked that out when writing my reply...oops. Guess I focused on the 3/16"

With a windlass 50 feet is a good length. The longer length of chain is more difficult without a windlass.

That's one reason I went with the 25' of chain for now; I currently have no windlass, but might add one. I figure if/when that happens the current 25'/200' can become the secondary rode and I can get more chain and maybe a bit more rope for the primary. (Right now my secondary is 20' of 1/4" G4 added to 200'+ of three-strand that was on the boat when I got it. I'm thinking of setting that up with shackles so that I can use just the anchor and rope [Powell shore ties, etc.] or add the chain into the mix but only when desired.

Sunbeam

 

[bridma]

Don't forget to use high test shackles as well. Cheapos or chinese knock offs will let you down, then you can kiss your chain and/or your anchor goodbye, hopefully not the boat as well.

Martin.

 

[Sunbeam]

Don't forget to use high test shackles as well. Cheapos or chinese knock offs will let you down, then you can kiss your chain and/or your anchor goodbye, hopefully not the boat as well.

Were you able to find well-made, high test (G4) shackles that fit 1/4" chain? I have looked everywhere and never could (I can fit a 5/16" shackle in the chain). I settled on a high quality, U.S. made Crosby red (orange) pin shackle, but would have preferred high test.

Here is the Crosby shackle I am using. It's not as strong as the chain (which is high test).


Crosby G-209 Series Anchor Shackle
Shackle Size: 5/16", Pin Diameter: 0.38"
Pin Type: Screw Pin / Working Load: 3/4 Ton
Material: Hot Dip Galvanized, Forged-Quenched and Tempered with Alloy Pin

Crosby shackle I would have liked but which they don't make in a smaller size than 3/8", which I don't believe will fit through 1/4" chain:

Shackle, Screw Pin High Test. Load rated 3/8", 4410lb. WLL. Meets federal spec. RR-C-271 made in U.S.A. Hot Galvanized.

Thanks,
Sunbeam

PS: The Crosby catalog can be found at www.thecrosbygroup.com. I can't get links to the catalog pages going, but they can be found by going to "catalog" "shackles" and then clicking on the images of the high test shackle and the orange pin anchor shackle.

 

[bridma]

Can't remember the size of shackle Sunbeam. But my local Chandler only sells high test chain and high test shackles. (He refuses to sell the cheap stuff.) So there must be something that fits 1/4" chain.

Martin.

 

[Sunbeam]

Can't remember the size of shackle Sunbeam. But my local Chandler only sells high test chain and high test shackles. (He refuses to sell the cheap stuff.) So there must be something that fits 1/4" chain.

If you get a chance to find out, I would be very grateful. It's a "known" problem with 1/4" HT chain, so I'm sure I wouldn't be the only appreciative one.

Sunbeam

 

[bridma]

I'll see if I can find time during the week and go pay the chandler a visit.

Martin.

 

[colobear]

I ground down the ear on the side of my shackle into which the threaded pin screws, just a little bit on each side, to get it through the BBB chain. I know I theoretically weakened the shackle but, as my understanding is the load ratings are about 20% of actual breaking point, I'm not worried. :disgust

 

[bridma]

In my pic album under Nomad Mods. You can see two pics of my anchor stock and 1/4" HT chain. I used two shackles, U to U, the pics are not that clear but you can see the two red pins on the HT shackles. One goes through the 1/4" chain.

Martin.

 

[Sunbeam]

In my pic album under Nomad Mods. You can see two pics of my anchor stock and 1/4" HT chain. I used two shackles, U to U, the pics are not that clear but you can see the two red pins on the HT shackles. One goes through the 1/4" chain.

I wonder if they are the same Crosby red pin shackles I used then? If so, they are good quality, U.S. made shackles, but not high test (thus have a lower WLL). At least the Crosby high test have a self-colored pin. I appreciate you checking into it when you have a chance, but please don't feel an obligation to rush or to make a special trip.

Sunbeam

 

[Bill K]

Delete the last period in the link to make the link to Crosby Group work.

Bill Kelleher

Don't forget to use high test shackles as well. Cheapos or chinese knock offs will let you down, then you can kiss your chain and/or your anchor goodbye, hopefully not the boat as well.

Were you able to find well-made, high test (G4) shackles that fit 1/4" chain? I have looked everywhere and never could (I can fit a 5/16" shackle in the chain). I settled on a high quality, U.S. made Crosby red (orange) pin shackle, but would have preferred high test.

Here is the Crosby shackle I am using. It's not as strong as the chain (which is high test).


Crosby G-209 Series Anchor Shackle
Shackle Size: 5/16", Pin Diameter: 0.38"
Pin Type: Screw Pin / Working Load: 3/4 Ton
Material: Hot Dip Galvanized, Forged-Quenched and Tempered with Alloy Pin

Crosby shackle I would have liked but which they don't make in a smaller size than 3/8", which I don't believe will fit through 1/4" chain:

Shackle, Screw Pin High Test. Load rated 3/8", 4410lb. WLL. Meets federal spec. RR-C-271 made in U.S.A. Hot Galvanized.

Thanks,
Sunbeam

PS: The Crosby catalog can be found at www.thecrosbygroup.com. I can't get links to the catalog pages going, but they can be found by going to "catalog" "shackles" and then clicking on the images of the high test shackle and the orange pin anchor shackle.

 

[Sunbeam]

Delete the last period in the link to make the link to Crosby Group work.

Hi Bill,

I meant the individual .pdf's that you get to when you click "down" to the level of a specific product. I think I could have saved them to my computer, then uploaded them to my album and pasted them in the thread, but I was feeling lazy and just wanted to link to them.

Sunbeam

Edited to add: Okay, my conscience didn't allow me to leave it like this :wink: Hopefully these are legible. Part of the bottom is cut off, because I took a screen shot, but those are just the larger sizes.

The first one is the regular "red pin" shackles; the second are the stronger ones.

 

[Bill K]

Hi Sunbeam,
I have more trouble saying something so people will understand.

The link did NOT work till I deleted the last period in the link.

Bill Kelleher

Delete the last period in the link to make the link to Crosby Group work.

Hi Bill,

I meant the individual .pdf's that you get to when you click "down" to the level of a specific product. I think I could have saved them to my computer, then uploaded them to my album and pasted them in the thread, but I was feeling lazy and just wanted to link to them.

Sunbeam

 

[Sunbeam]

Hi Sunbeam,
I have more trouble saying something so people will understand.

The link did NOT work till I deleted the last period in the link.

Bill Kelleher

I did get it, so you explained properly. You were referring to my mentioning the general Crosby Group website. And I had put a period there so people would not be able to use it as a link, my mistake. But the links I was referring to that I could "not get to work" were the links to the individual pages that you get to by drilling down - they show the shackles in question in greater detail. They open up in frames and are a bit tricky to link to (for me anyway). But I did open them up in my .pdf reader, then take a screen shot, save that as a .jpeg, upload it to my Sunbeam album, and paste them in above. Whew