Repower Time

C

cdoryfan

New member
For reasons that can best be summed up by "I'm a dummy", it's time to repower... and fast.

I know there has been a bunch of discussion over the years, but also engines and manufacturers develop and change over time. I thought I would ask the question this way, if the same boat (c-dory 22) came on the market and you were looking to buy, would you prefer it to have...

- Mercury 115 comand thrust
- Yamaha 115
- Suzuki 100 (the 115 is really heavy)
- Honda 100 (115 is also really heave)
- (tohatsu is out)

For those interested, the only quote I've gotten yet is for the 115 Mercury command thrust at just under 15k for everything (install is 1300 included in that quote).

Relevant data, will be salt water kept on mooring (so flushing with fresh is unlikely)

I'd be very curious in your thoughts.
 
The Honda 100 uses the 90 HP powerhead. It requires high octane premium gasoline to get you to 100 HP.

The Yamaha 115 is a great motor. Runs quiet and has a good weight to HP ratio. I bought one brand new and ran it for 6 years and 1000 hours without problems. Sold it with the boat.
I have also purchased a brand new Yamaha 90 for my C Dory and it was trouble free for the 5 years and 1200 hours I had it. Sold that and just installed a brand new Honda 90. So far trouble free as well.

What I like about the Honda is that it has a timing chain instead of a timing belt that Yamaha runs.

All of these newer motors require one main ingredient. Clean, filtered, water free gas.The high performance fuel injection systems need good fuel.
 
I'd buy the one with dealer support nearby. But I honestly have had such good luck with both Yamaha and Honda, that I'd probably buy those no matter what if the deal was even close to competitive. Curious, why no Tohatsu? I have had a couple small ones and they were fine. A friend has a 20hp one and I think it literally makes gasoline while on the water.
 
I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the new EFI motors. As previously mentioned Ethanol Free fuel will eliminate many future issues and not a bad idea to support the dealer that will do your warranty service should it be needed. I repowered last year with a 115 Mercury command thrust, No complaints and I love the torque it provides.
 
We repowered our 22 with a Mercury 90 Command Thrust about a year and a half ago and have been very happy with the performance. No issues so far.
 
Interesting / thanks for the comments / good advice re-fuel.

I’m fortunate to live within 5 miles of a dealer for each of those manufacturers so I’m trying to figure out my actual goal.

Really interesting re honda needing premium fuel, makes me think that may be off the list as the 115 Honda is too heavy.

I don’t want a tohatsu because I have a tendency to only keep a boat for a few years and resale is important to me. That being said I have some experience with tohatsus and they are fantastic. (Other reason is I clearly cannot spell it!).

The resale thing is pushing me towards Yamaha, but I’m worried about price and lead time which may also have an effect.
 
Update: I went with a Suzuki 115 (deposit down at least). I realize i had previously said too heavy, but on further review it seems people put them on with no trouble. Price was a bit better than others, and lead time is excellent (within 2 weeks they tell me).
 
cdoryfan":14r3jf7e said:
Update: I went with a Suzuki 115 (deposit down at least). I realize i had previously said too heavy, but on further review it seems people put them on with no trouble. Price was a bit better than others, and lead time is excellent (within 2 weeks they tell me).
Click to expand...

I think they weigh a tad over 400 pounds. That isn't too much.
 
I have a Suzuki 115 on my 22’ Cruiser, so far it has been a great engine. Seem to have good low end power and sounds great too! I like the gauge better than on my other boat with a 2021 Yamaha 150. I have always liked Yamaha engines and have not had any issues either.

I am very pleased with the the Suzuki 115hp and 9.9 hp kicker.
 
I'm confused. Do not the specs for the C-22 indicated a max transom weight of 500 pounds (combined weight of outboards plus batteries)? If yes, then is it prudent to repower with 115 hp Suzuki (410#), 9.9 hp Suzuki Kicker (120#) with two batteries in the transom lockers (2 x 45# = 90#), for a total transom weight of 620#? Just asking?
 
llewjohnson@seanet.com":1pwysu88 said:
I'm confused. Do not the specs for the C-22 indicated a max transom weight of 500 pounds (combined weight of outboards plus batteries)? If yes, then is it prudent to repower with 115 hp Suzuki (410#), 9.9 hp Suzuki Kicker (120#) with two batteries in the transom lockers (2 x 45# = 90#), for a total transom weight of 620#? Just asking?
Click to expand...

Two 40 or 50 Hondas @ 214# each is 428#, plus 2 group 24 batteries ~ 60#, is a frequent & popular configuration. The 22 initially had 70 hp outboards which in the early 1980s weight was in the mid 200# range.

Thru the years the hp rating has been increased to 115 hp. I am aware of some 22's with up to 140 hp. I don't suggest that. But when you use heavier motors, then trim tabs and Permatrims are necessary to get the best performance out of the boat. That recommendation is based on both practical knowledge and demonstrated performance on boats with and without these additions.

I don't recollect anyplace that the builder has specified a weight involving batteries--and if so, that is not on the transom--it may be in the area between the two fuel tanks, or in the small lazarets on each side above the fuel tanks.

The current Honda 115 is the same block as the 140 and 150 hp motors, and is in the 480# area. I have run 22's with 3 group 31 batteries, a kicker and a storage chest or freezer, just forward of the splash well. A Honda generator mounted above the splash well, etc. No problem, as long as you trim the boat properly.
 
Hmmm...within C-Brats please see 'Documents', C-Dory Manuals, C-Dory 22 PDF, Page 5, Motors; "...A normally loaded transom would be about 375 pounds, motors and batteries. The maximum should not exceed 500 lbs. The issue is not the strength of the transom, but rather the balance of the boat. An over-heavy transom will cause the boat to plane slowly and ride hard...". I've underlined 'and batteries' and 'not to exceed 500 lbs' to emphasize that batteries are also included in transom weight whether located in the lazarette lockers or on the deck between the fuel tanks. Dr. Austin is correct that trim can still be achieved with transom loads over 500 lbs, but at what cost to fuel efficiency?
 
'Documents', C-Dory Manuals, C-Dory 22 PDF, Page 5, Motors; "...A normally loaded transom would be about 375 pounds, motors and batteries. The maximum should not exceed 500 lbs. The issue is not the strength of the transom, but rather the balance of the boat. An over-heavy transom will cause the boat to plane slowly and ride hard...".
Click to expand...

You are correct that this is in the Manual of 02-01-2000, Thank you. Certainly many things have changed in the last 24 years. For example the fuel tank capacity is listed as 40 gallons. Many of the boats are 46 and some 50 gallons (A few earlier boats had large single tanks, with over 70 gallons of fuel) Fuel weight being a little over the 6 lbs/gallon, that will place as much as another 60 lbs in the "transom area" with "two standard tanks".

The reality is that many of the boats are run heavier than the recommended weights in this Manual. I am probably as guilty as anyone, since we often outfitted our 22's for a month on the water, and had hundreds of lbs of food, extra water, dinghy, anchoring gear, etc aboard. The nice thing about a Dory or Semi dory is that weighting the hull to a certain point will actually improve the ride--if you maintain proper trim.

As far as loading and fuel efficiency. I am sure that you are correct, but It has not been a factor for us, even in relatively remote areas. 'We find a heavily loaded boat runs about the same at displacement speeds. At WOT, definitely yes. I don't have a fuel curve on the 22 with weight. I was able to compare the fuel curve with a previous owner and what I found with a heavily loaded 25. There there is a 100 gallon fuel tank, (a bit forward, under the cockpit) and the level of the fuel does make a difference--as would the loading of the cockpit. However the difference was less than one would speculate.

Has the weight hung on the transom made a difference in safety or realistic use of the boat? I would say "no" within certain boundaries. The examples being the common use of twin 40 or 50 hp engines, and up to 3 batteries up to group 31. Also the glassed in floor (and the optional removable flat floor) in the cockpit area, is a significant weight. Where people sit when under way also changes the way the boat handles (as well as side to side trim) the boat's handling characteristics. A prudent mariner makes allowances for these changes, and is able to control the boat, and get the most efficient ride. The boat is touted as a 4 person boat...in reality the only way to seat 4 in the cabin, is to convert the dinette to a "Sofa" (one of our boats had cushions for that options) then you develop a significant port list at rest, but this can be removed with trim tabs at speeds.
 
19 x 14 3 blade prop. Planes nicely and does well cruising at 15mph to 27mph. Has more throttle left for faster top end.

Like Thataway said you can add weight to the bow if it is a concern. I am new to owning a C-Dory. These are extraordinary vessels. I cannot believe how well they track especially when trolling.

No issues with getting on plane with the weight on the transom. I also have a Permatrim on the 115hp Suzuki.
 
Interesting discussion. Regarding the weight my boat has all chain and a windless (and I increased the anchor size to a 14lbs) so maybe this will improve balance.

Dropped off the boat today for the repower so we'll see how it goes! The dealer was really excited to look at the c-dory, they are pretty rare in New England.

The only thing is I have one more week to change engine order as they de-rig current engine and the 140 is only marginally more money. I know it's not necessary but as it's the same engine block, a part of me is intrigued. We shall see however!
 
I understand the idea of 30 more HP for a few hundred dollars. But I would advise against it. You get that higher HP at the top end of RPM's, The 115 will take the boat right up to its stability max speed. The boats do not run as well over 30 mph. It depends of the trim and conditions.

One of the eastern dealers equipped the boats with 50 or 100 feet of chain, to give more weight in the boat, making up for more weight on the stern. Fine until you get caught going down wind/seas, and the boat's bow not rising as promptly and tending to broach. I much prefer to use trim tabs, and the foil. Yes both are "bandaids". The foils give more versatility, and the ability to run into a head sea/chop with an improved ride.
 
Thataway, I hear you on the 115 vs 140, it's just so hard to say no to more HP, even thought I understand I'll never use it. The only other consideration is I think the 140 has a better oil cooler which sounds like more reliability to me, but really I'm just looking for excuses for a 140... probably going to stick with 115.

I just installed new trim tabs, so I'm hoping I can avoid the permatrim for now. The idea of so much chain does seem crazy for me (I have something like 75 feet), but I came from a sailing (racing) background where any chain over necessary was considered a capital offense.
 
Also racing sailboat background, and any weight in the ends of the boat is no-no. With my cruising. sailboats boats that was violated often. 200 feet of chain, heavy anchors, Dinghy on davits or on deck like a purse seiner.

With the C Dory I also like to keep the bow light--I tried several boats (22, 25 and TC 255) The first two without trim tabs, then trim tabs, and trim tabs with Permatrims....conclusion--both. The Tom Cat 255 was a different story. of course no trim tabs, but the permatrims did not give me that much a lower planing speed, which was my goal.
 
While I have no personal experience with the particular 140 hp outboard on the back of a 22, in looking at all the specs and the fuel burn data, it looks like a better choice than the 115 to me. And I suspect, if the prop size is dialed in correctly to utilize all of the power available up to about 30 ish mph, it will perform a tad bit better than the 115. But with all that said, other posters are correct that the difference may not be actually noticeable for the average user. I personally think the only time you'd be able to tell is with a very heavily loaded boat. With the correct prop, it should be able to move a heavier load at a faster speed than the 115.
 
Back
Top