rigging the anchor

F

flapbreaker

New member
I have the fast set delta anchor and was wondering about something. It has a second hole in it's arm down near the "plow" area. I'm assuming this would be used to attatch the chain to permanently and then use zip tie's to attatch it to the end of the arm. Again I'm guessing this would be the ideal way incase the anchor got hung up you could bust the ties and would be pulling from a better angle? Right now it's not rigged that way so should I worry?
 
I've got a Bruce type anchor and it comes with the same 2 holes. I'm considering using both holes but I think I'll have trouble getting it up onto the anchor roller and through the loop of metal on the end of the roller assembly. I thought about getting a short piece of stainless cable to go between the 2 holes and I think that would take care of the problem.
I'm concerned with what exactly you would use to attatch to the front hole ie. wire, wire ties etc. How strong do they need to be to be reiably strong and still be able to break them. Using both holes might be a great setup for a fishing anchor but I don't know if I'd trust it while spending the night in less than ideal conditions. Who out there uses a breakaway setup and how do you assemble it? Do you use it while spending the night?
 
I do :) done it for years now, here's what the Fox likes:

Keep a stainless steel connector in the first hole, (non break-away) ready to rig to the chain, for trusted anchorages. In more unfamiliar and rocky areas (mostly fishing holes) use the break-away.

I use the same twin they use on longlines for commercial bottom fishing. Personally, I don't know what strength to use, I eyeball it, mostly :roll:

Have had the "ganion twine" wear-through, and anchor fail... (daoh :embarrased ) keep a good eyeball on the break-away material :idea:

Have also retrieved a bent bruce, by not having it rigged by break-away, this was a "day anchor" I would not have chosen to anchor in normally.

It's worth it :thup
 
Greg-

Is the "ganion twine" wrapping nylon (elastic) or dacon (inelastic) or does it make any difference?

Do you ever use tape over the twine to take some of the abrasive abuse?

1/4" G-40 chain and 1/2" three strand nylon rope each have breaking strengths of 7000+ lbs, The CD-22 weighs 3000+ lbs.

In motion, either with the motor moving the boat, or with the anchor line cinched down and the boat riding the swells, we could easily get 2000-3000 lbs or more on the rode to try and break it loose. Got any guess as to how much load the ganion twine is set up to break at? (Not trying to beg the question, just get a good feel for the "how much" to use issue.)

Another way to quantify it, perhaps the easiest, would be to state how many wraps of line to use and what test / breaking strength of the line was, i.e., five to seven wraps of 150 lb test line.

Thanks, Joe.
 
I know that some people just use several large zip ties on their columbia river setup.

My problem is I'm using a windlass and I just put a swivel between the chain and anchor. Not sure how I would still use it while it's in the breakaway setup. I was thinking I could just cut the chain above anchor and instert the swivel between the two chain portions.

Anyway i just didn't know how necessary it was to use the breakaway. I would hate to have to cut it loose.
 
Joe. There is no stretch at all in the ganion twine. It's super-duper-durable stuff :thup I still don't know the poundage on it, but it's immense I'm sure :xseek Definitely only one wrap, or it will be stronger than the treated 3/8 rode I use.
Some mentioned them huge plastic ties (too spendy) then again, a roll of ganion is ridiculously priced also :thdown might be better off with the plastic ties... :idea: at least it would be rot and abrasion-resistant.

Arg.... I'm off to see my "kiroquackter" today :lol: I'll catch ya latter ... poof :bat
 
I must be missing something. I looked at the various anchors I have (Bruce and CQR) and indeed they have two holes. One at the flukes, and the other at the end of the stock.

So, the suggestion is to shackle the chain to the fluke end and run the chain back along the stock, untill you get to the end of the stock and tie-wrap the chain there?

That's new to me. If the tie-wrap breaks loose when you really need the anchor, like in a blow, the rode will pull the anchor right out, since it'll be pulling the fluke end. Is that OK? The normal practice is to shackle the chain to the end of the stock, so the pull is going to set the anchor, the harder the pull the deeper the anchor is set.

I thought that the fluke hole was to tie a bouy line so that if it gets stuck you can pull it out. I've done that and it worked just fine. I've also neglected to set a bouy line, and had to dive the anchor.

Anyway, just understand what you're doing and what can happen. Remember, your anchor is what you're depending on. It's not a lunch hook.

Boris
 
I'm with you Boris, I think next year I'll rig my small fishing anchor that way but the big anchor will remain rigged conventionally. I don't like surprises in the night.
 
Boris-

You're right on with your concerns and they are exactly why it's so important to get the breaking tension right on the tie-downs, and why when a real nasty life threatening blow is expected, a stainless steel shackle is used to solidly tie down the chain at the front and over-ride the break-away feature.

There have been a number of attempts to devise a mechanical trip device into the area where the shank meets the flukes, but none that I know of has ever caught on and sold well.

In storm anchoring, the KISS Principle seems to apply proportionately and therefore absolutely.
 
A lot of people (but not me) rig their anchors in the manner discussed. The chance of the tie down failing is actually pretty slim, because when deployed and the rode is taut, the pulling force is pretty much in line with the shank and there is very little force applied to the tie down at the shank end. Where it comes into service is in the case of a stuck anchor when you move up on it and apply force straight up (~90º to the shank) or move past the stuck anchor and pull it backwards. Then the tie down absorbs all the force and breaks free.

That's all fine and dandy, but I still don't trust it. My concern is what may happen when anchored through a tide turn and the anchor has to be pulled around. Almost all of my anchoring is done in sand/mud, so there isn't really much to foul the anchor. Now RF, he gets his anchor into all kinds of places it shouldn't be and his lash-up has saved his butt (and his anchor) a bunch of times when rocks and trees didn't want to give it back. I reckon if I was in an area where fouling the anchor was likely, I would use the two-point attachment.
 
I too will stay with the conventional lashup. Before now I had never even heard of the alternate method. I found that when you anchor in places like Desolation Sound and look at the canadians anchored around you most of them have the buoy with the tripline attached. I went up there unprepared the first time and found out the usefulness of the tripline. Whaletown and most of the other popular anchorages are old log handling sites and the bottom is littered with cable, big cable. We ended up taking a loop of chain and a line and dropping it down the rode and hoped the loop would slide down the anchor shank so we could pull the anchor out from under the cables. Not much fun, real hernia material.
 
Thank you Mike and Joe, for do'n such a good explanation of the rig :thup

In answer to the original post then... I'd say the answer is: it depends on you location, and the anchor of choice. Personally I like the plow design best. They have less tendency to foil, for their single-fluke. :idea:

I to think the buoy-line is the best, but thats more work and more crap you have to carry on board, on a small boat. :thdown

A "flaw" in the buoy line method, perhaps: Draging anchor into deeper water, can float the buoy. Setting it up with excessive line (poly rode) can float on the surface and pose a navigational hazard to other boats. :idea
 
Deja-vu' !!!

The search for a simple, all inclusive, definitive answer for all possible circumstances is foiled by reality again! Dang!. Don't 'ja just hate it when that happens??? Now about those twins vs. singles, your prop pitch problem, and that potty and shower dilemma............


Joe.
 
Ron-

The SARCA anchor looks interesting. Obviously its a plow design, but the ring feature to help the anchor roll over is new to me. The Hydrobubble designs have a float at the upper rear of the shank that helps land the anchor on its bottom and can also help to roll it over. One version of this anchor also has a hinged break-free device. See here:

http://www.anchorconcepts.com.au/?


The slotted shank has been used before. The biggest insecurity with a free slotted shank in which the shackle can slide is the fear that a wind reversal will pull the anchor out of its set and not reset properly. Note the hole in the front of the SARCA anchor shank to tie off hard to with the shackle or to add a breakable line to.

Looks like the number 3 size would fit the CD-22. Do you remember what the price was ?

Next week I'll show you an anchor with many of these features and then some, but still have to do some work on it, etc. Joe.
 
I'm going to replace my Danforth with Bruce anchor and rig it to breakaway. Me thinks at the end of my anchor chain attach a swivel, zip tie the swivel to the anchor. Attached to the clevis on the swivel will be a short piece of chain connected to the trip hole on the anchor. With the trip chain and the zip tie both attached to the swivel, I'll still have swivability and the contraption will work with the windlass and bow roller.
What I'm wondering is if anybody has an idea of how big a zip tie would be appropiate.

Flapbreaker- Did you end up doing the zip tie thing, any reviews?

Joe- how many pounds of pull to break a large zip tie?
 
B~C-

"Joe- How many pounds to break a zip tie?"

Like I should know because I'm The Zip Tie Strangler or something?

I really don't know, but there are at least two approaches:

1) Get out a really big fish scale and find out through testing, or

2) look it up on the internet, as I'm sure the manufactuers have the data available....

However, the next thing you'll have to establish is how much breaking strength you need, which brings us to a third choice-

3) look up Columbia River Anchor (I think that's what they call it) on the internet and see what size and how many are typically used on a boat and anchor the size of your 22. I know I've seen it discussed before, because someone mentioned it in passing a couple of years back and I looked it up to see what the critter looked like.

The other thing you could do is set it up with ties that appear to be close to right but a little too weak and then go out in the river, set the anchor hard, and try to break it loose. Repeat until it holds firmly, but still breaks when you hit it good and hard. Might be good to have the actual practice with the thing under your belt before you have to use it.

Joe.
 
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