Right of way!

T

Tug

New member
Today while trolling upriver with the red can on my right, i observed a larger vessel approx. 26 feet in length heading in my direction.As the boat got closer to me it was obvious that if one of us didn't alter course we would collide.I did a quick check to see if there was enough room on my Port side for the other vessel to pass by me safely and indeed there was enough room. At a distance of about 500 feet the vessel slowed to about 10-15 mph but didn't alter course. I was trolling at a speed of about 1.5 mph about not knowing what the other boat was planning on doing i held my track. At about 100 feet the other boat turned dramatically to Starboard and passed my Port side at a distance of about 30-40 feet. The driver of the other boat gave me what i suspect was one of his dirtiest looks. Question.. who had the right of way. Tug
 
Port to port if your going in a head on collision. You should' ve flipped him the bird. He was probably pissed that he had to adjust course. (or wasn't paying attention and looked up and saw you late). If he was a sailboat under sail or a very large vessel like a ferry or a freighter he'd a had the r.o.w.

It may be different on rivers than the ocean.
 
Generally speaking, the down-river boat is the stand-on vessel (meaning they don't alter course/speed) and the up-river boat is the give-way vessel. The only mention of "right of way" in the CFRs is regarding the Mississippi and tributaries and refers to the down-river boat. Not knowing what river you are on, I would suggest in the future you get on the radio and talk about who is going where - that eliminates any question in either skippers' mind. Port to port is the common practice, but turns in the river, vessel size/load, and current may play a part. When it doubt, get on the VHF and discuss it.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim, i was trolling on the Ste. Mary's River and ...the down river power boat having the right of way is something i haven't heard of before. When i am not fishing/trolling i generally give right of way to larger boats as a matter of practice but i thought it was the law to slow down and give way to vessels engaged in fishing if it can be done in a safe and practical manner. Tug
 
Tug,

While I generally give the right of way to those engaged in recreational fishing, that's because I'm a fisherman not because I have to. The right of way for "those engaged in fishing" generally applies only to commercial vessels whose maneuverability is severely impaired by long line trolling or by trailing nets. Us poor recreational guys are not judged to have our maneuverability impaired enough to be given the right of way. I too used to think that being engaged in fishing gave me the r.o.w. but it doesn't.
 
..got this from BoatUS

"The Rules {of the road} specifically require that any action taken to avoid collision, if the circumstances allow, will be
positive, made in ample time, and in keeping with good seamanship. Any changes in course or speed
should be large enough to be readily apparent to the other vessel. This means that you should avoid last
second changes in course, and you should avoid a small series of changes. Change direction early, and
make a large turn."

It appears that the "other" vessel did change course "large enough to be readily apparent" but did not "change direction EARLY".

As with any vehicle/vessel, it's always best to be a defensive driver-
 
Roger is absolutely correct: recreational boats engaged in fishing are just another powerboat as far as the CFRs are concerned. I know there are a LOT of small boat fishermen who THINK they have the right of way, but this is not correct. I see this on a daily basis when home in the Tropical Tip. Also, fishermen who anchor in the ICW (you're not supposed to anchor in a navigable waterway). Or, small boats that are fishing not giving way to ships coming in the ship channel (yes, really).

Again, generally speaking, the down-river boat is considered to be less maneuverable than the up-river boat, thus the stand-on condition. There are SO many situations and so many boaters who are not familiar with the CFRs... thus, my suggestion for when in doubt, to discuss it. I do this frequently with barge traffic in the ICW and ship traffic in the ship channel. A quick call on the VHF can eliminate those anxious moments. If I get no response, I DO make a maneuver and make it large enough to let my intentions be known. Right of way, stand-on, or give-way doesn't excuse either skipper from avoiding a possible collision.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Good and practical information that i will remember.Although the river was narrow and i thought i had the right of way because i was on the Starboard side. Red right returning....It appears that according to.. ( BoatUS)..,that i may of been partially at fault by holding my course.... and not making a clear and large enough course correction to Starboard to clearly show the other vessel that i intended to hold my present course on the Starboard side of the river. Thanks Tug
 
Jim as an aside, I've pretty much given up on trying to have discussions with the commercial guys out here in our area. Early on I frequently tried to get information about their intended direction etc. and I'd say I'd only get a response about 20-30% of the time. Most often, NADA. Now I don't bother to call, I just stay the heck out of their way.
 
"New Reels Catch Fish So Purchase Some......."
Ah yes, the old mnemonic for right of way and rules of the road....
[Jim and Roger make an excellent point about commercial versus recreational fishing]
Bottom line is if a risk of a collision is imminent, both captains must take action to avoid collision. When things get hairy, you must take positive action, regardless of who has right of way.
I had a similar experience a month ago on Lake Ontario. I was hauling a fish net over the port side (not on a C-Dory) and showing my starboard to an approaching sailboat. The sailboat skipper had to veer away a bit and was somewhat annoyed that I did not move. Technically, I had the right-of-way as a fishing vessel (and the net I was hauling was anchored to the bottom, further restricting my ability to maneuver), although he probably could not see the net and I was not flying my day shapes as I should have been. We did not pass closely, and there was no real danger of collision, but I was a bit embarrassed at not making my status clear.
In any case, regardless of what the rules say, common courtesy and respect are always welcome.
In my book, any boat that is obviously trolling deserves a wide berth, and even if I have the right of way, why spoil someone's good (or bad) day's fishing?
That said, don't pick a fight with a Laker!
CH

Now if we can only teach those rowing clubs that their crew boats really do NOT have the right of way over a tug pushing a barge in the Black Rock Canal in April, I would rest easier .....
 
As Jim and others point out there are so many situations that factor into 'who has right of way' per the CFR's but it always boils down to one - do what you need to do to avoid a crash (also part of the CFR's).

The guy you described was a tool who should have turned to starboard earlier to make it clear there was no risk of a close encounter. This same guy is not likely to be monitoring 16 and or 13 on the VHF but it's worth a shot.
 
The Chapman's reference to the US Inland Navigation Rules states:

"A vessel proceeding along a narrow channel of fairway must stay as close as safely possible to the starboard side and outer limit of the channel [Rule 9(a)(i)]. Small craft, sailing vessels, fishing vessels or vessels crossing the channel shall not impede the passage of a vessel that can only navigate within the channel [Rule9(b), (c) and (d).

A special danger arises from following currents when operating on the Great Lakes, Western Rivers or other waters specified by the Secretary. Since a power-driven vessel that is downbound with a following current is less maneuverable than an upbound vessel, the downbound vessel initiates whistle signals, proposes the place and manner of passage and has the right-of-way. The upbound vessel must hold as necessary to permit safe passage [Rule 9(a)(ii)."

I would say that in the situation that you described, technically, the downbound boat should have initiated the passage, either by altering course visibly or by signaling or contacting you. Since he didn't, and he was the stand-on vessel--assuming you had room to navigate to starboard--you should have altered course to starboard early enough to signal your intention and stay as far right as safely possible. If there was no room, you should have held until he safely passed. This rule is for the US waters specified and therefore may not legally apply. But it's good practice even if it isn't binding. Also, I sometimes use five short blasts of the horn if I feel that a vessel is maneuvering in a way that puts my vessel in danger. Just another opinion...[/i]
 
Good information here.

Not often does a C-Dory rank in the "tonnage rules" situation, but i did once.

Inbound to a dock in a fairly narrow and shallow passage way, I observed a heavily loaded inflatable coming directly at me, slowly and 200 feet out. I like teh saying "Show some side" however I only had about 10 feet of room to slide to starboard. I did, the inflatable seemed to follow towards me. There were 5 adults, 1 kid (8yo maybe) and one dog on board. I could not see the face of the person on the OB tiller. I was making 2-3 knots. Immediately after the turn to stbd and straightening in the channel, and the inflatable aiming for me again, I went into neutral, the revers to stop all forward motion. I had 2 feet of water under the props. They are at 80-100 feet now. I did a single short blast on the horn, (port to port passing.) Totally no acknowledgement. I went into slow reverse backing towards some more water, and they kept coming. At 50 feet, I started the 5 short blasts. At 40 feet I finished, the oblivious crew began looking in all directions but mine, and continued at there preset speed and directly at me. At 30 feet I started the second set of 5, and they finally found me, turned to their Stbd and passed with in 10 feet. Their appearance looked like they would have enough egg for a dozen omelet breakfast each, because by then there were folks on a dozen boats anchored and moored on floats all around ogling.

The rule states to make, I believe, an obvious course correction. I like the "Show some side, early and significant" And if all else fails, I hope you are the bigger boat :wink

Harvey
SleepyC
 
The navigational "bible" that you should read and study is entitled "Navigation Rules International-Inland COMDTINST M 16672.2D". The scenario presented is included in this book and is where Jim B. and Roger are getting their information regarding

vessels "proceeding downbound with a following current shall have right-of-way over an upbound vessel" and "vessel engaged in fishing", "means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, BUT DOES NOT INCLUDE a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability." (eg. a recreational fisherman).

Bear in mind the above quotes are just portions of the rules regarding river right-of-ways and "fishing" that are included in this book, but the portions I quoted do address Tug's scenario.

It is a requirement for all vessels 12 meters or more in length to carry an up-to-date copy of Navigation Rules at all times on Inland Waters. Although, not a requirement for our vessel, I do carry a copy of this publication on board and someday hope to master all of its' information. It certainly isn't a book you just read, but a book that a person needs to study in order to glean all of the intricacies of the rules. Most likely your local West Marine will have a copy of it for sale.

Tug, I hope this helps answer your question.

Perhaps the "Kindle" fans can add this to their list of "must have reads on board"..... :lol:
 
Don't forget Rule 7a. The rule is the same for both international and inland.

"RULE 7
Risk of Collision
a)Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist."

I always assume that I care about my boat much, much, more then some people care about their boats. With cars it is called defensive driving. One of the advantages of a CD is how maneuverable we are.

One of my favorite quotes from the Latitude 38 wisdom page. goes like this:
"Whenever you do something in command of a vessel, think about how it would sound on a witness stand."
 
Here lies the body of John C. Day
He died defending his right of way
He was right, dead right, as the day is long
But he’s just as dead as if he’d been wrong.

Good to know the rules, silly to defend them to the death. Communication is key. Radio, horn, yelling. I try to drive, walk, bike and boat by this philosophy.

Kind of goes to the difference between manners and etiquette. (Ok, I stole and modified this) “Etiquette tells a Captain which boat has the right of way. Manners tell the Captain what to do when the other boat doesn’t.”
 
On the Mississippi you'll often hear a tow skipper on the radio say he'll "pass you on the one," or sometimes "two," one for "I'll leave you on my port side," two for "I'll leave you on my starboard side." These refer to sound (horn) signals A lot of folks think this just means port-to-port or starboard-to-starboard when meeting head-on, but it also applies when passing a boat going in the same direction.
 
the over taking of a vessel should be a mutual decision. that is, i'll give you one whistle, the vessel being over taken may respond with roger, one whistle or negative, danger or give me two whistle.
easy way to remember what whistles mean, is as follows.
1. one whistle, when at the dock, means i am leaving the dock
2. one whistle while attempting to overtake another vessel means i intend to pass you on your starboard side
3. two whistles given while attempting to overtake another vessel means in intend to pass you on your port side.
4. 3 whistles given while at dock means i am leaving the dock and operating in a-stern, in this situation one would give one whistle, i am leaving the dock, followed by 3 whistles, i am operating in a-stern.
5. 5 or more whistle, danger, danger, danger.

so, one to the right, two to the left, three operating in a-stern and five, danger, danger, danger.
hope this helps
pat
 
hello tivo,
different area sport different sayings, while the names may change the meanings are the same. here's one i learned many years ago.

here lies the body of michael o'dey
who died maintaining his right away,
he was right, dead right, as he sail along
but just as dead, as if he was wrong!

love the exchange of info found on this site.
best regards
pat
 
I've noticed several large cruisers go across my bow whilst up North. No acknowledgment as to right of way, as they crossed from port to starboard.

I finally figured out that they were on autopilot, and since Journey On was small, they weren't going to mess with the settings.

Also, in So Cal, racing sailboats expect right of way with another sailboat. And they don't care.

Anybody who is expecting right of way is making a big mistake. Giving way will save the fiberglass. Note that there are times I don't remember this.

Boris
 
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