Rule Automatic Bilge Pump

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ccflyer

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C Dory Year
2003
C Dory Model
22 Cruiser
Vessel Name
Retriever
I have a Rule Automatic 1100 GPM pump installed under the door. It works fine when I use the manual switch at the help. However, when it comes on automatically it doesn't seem to sense any bilge water. And, despite my pouring a bucketful next to it, it will not engage. So I go back to the helm, throw the manual switch and it does its job.
Since I see no exterior float switch mechanism, is there anything else to do before replacing it?
Thanks
 
We have the same issue w/ the one in our bilge. It's supposed to have an auto internal switch, but despite even dropping it in a bucket of water, I've never seen it automatically go on. It's always been a mystery to me. I even replaced it and had the same outcome.
 
As I read the instructions, the auto function of the pump will pulse on every 2.5 minutes to see if there is water there. When I put in my buckets of water for tests, the auto function didn't work unless I waited for over two minutes for the auto sensor to detect that there was a whole bunch of water in there then it fired off. So that MAY be the problem you are seeing as well. It would seem that the water level detect on the pump can suck electricity 25/7 without the pulse mode, so they built that in. What that pulsed peek at the water level means for unattended boats in terms of juice used from the direct wiring to the battery I haven't found out. But, the pulse is apparently mighty low current draw when it fires and so has little effect on boats on the trailer for long periods or in the slip.

If anyone can backup this understanding I have or shoot it down, let me know please.
 
My Rule 1100 automatic is way smarter than I am. But it keeps the bilge relatively dry and that is a good thing.

Last year I took it out and did the bucket of water test thing. It shot a big gob of water right into my face unannounced. I hate that.

I have another 1100 and am thinking of installing it also as a back-up but the discharge routing is a giant PITA.
 
I believe there are Rule 1100s that use float switches, ones that use solid state devices (like the water level detectors in humidifiers and some espresso machines), and some are totally manual.

Our 1100 is a white body in a blue basket, and the body unclips from the basket which is attached to the bilge with epoxy. It is roughly pill shaped looking down from the top.

When I take it out of the basket I can see the impeller in a circular housing. If I remove the 2 screws, I have access to the impeller, and I also see the float. Doing this doesn't expose any water sensitive pump parts, FYI. The float is a loose white plastic part with a magnet in the top, that floats and sinks in a vertical channel. Inside the pump body above the top of the channel is (I presume) a reed switch that closes when the magnet gets close.

If this sounds like your pump, I'd recommend removing the 2 screws and checking if there's gunk that's making the float stick.

If you have a self-checking version that runs every N minutes, I'd replace it.
 
There are at least 6 Rule 1100 pumps:

There is the Rule 1100 D (manual, to be used with a separate sensor or float switch

Rule 1100 S, the sensor (every 2.5 minutes comes on and checks to see if there is water,. (These use power and can drain batteries)

Rule 1100 Automatic, with a float switch

There is the Rulemate 1100 which is the oval which Ferret30 noted, and has a float switch.

there is also a square Rule 1100.

Of course there are other brands....Jabsco diaphragm, Atwood, Shurflo, and Johnson (which I think are better built than the Rule).

Probably it is wise to use a separate float switch which you can wire a light or counter to, so you know when the pump comes on. There are some switches which are better than others--but I hesitate to say that one is "best" since they are all subject to fail....

There is also a Rule Cartridge 1100
 
I recently installed 2 Rule Mate 1100 pumps on Carpy. These are the new ones with the solid state sensor which I hoped will be the solution to the recurring noise and battery drain of the old 1100's. To test them I turned a hose to the cockpit and waited as the water got much deeper than I was comfortable with. Eventually they came on and emptied the cockpit rather quickly. These pumps turn on when the water is 2.75 inches deep at the pump and turn off at .5 inch. I don't think a bucket or two of water will set them off. I was reassured that they did work well, and seemed to get more than that last half inch with the manual switch. I'll be interested to see how they behave in a heavy rain while on the water.

Bruce Cassal
"Carpy"
 
ccflyer":7fedn101 said:
I have a Rule Automatic 1100 GPM pump installed under the door. It works fine when I use the manual switch at the help. However, when it comes on automatically it doesn't seem to sense any bilge water. And, despite my pouring a bucketful next to it, it will not engage. So I go back to the helm, throw the manual switch and it does its job.
Since I see no exterior float switch mechanism, is there anything else to do before replacing it?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Did you put a volt meter on the direct lead to the pump from the battery? If it does not read 12 volts, the 5-amp fuse in the battery box could be corroded. A continuity test may well work, but that does not mean that the fuse is not bad. This is what happened to me on my (sold) CD-16 cruiser. My conjecture is that at a point in time, the battery box flooded with water, allowing water into the fuse connector, corroding the fuse over time to a point that the pump would no longer work in the autosense mode. Like you, the pump worked on manual, but that's because it's on a separate circuit, connected to your main boat bus, and not through the direct fused battery connection. I put in a new fuse and fuse holder, and my pump worked like a champ.

Rich
 
The pump does come on every several minutes, it just doesn't sense the water. It only pumps out water when I hit the manual switch. Later today I'm going to see if I can open it up and find "something stuck". Failing that I guess its off to get another at West Marine - ouch!
Thanks for all your responses
Phil
 
If you have the 1100S, it is supposed to come on every two minutes or so. If there isn't enough water to pump (a couple of inches or so) It will not stay on.

The manual setting causes it to stay on and pump until it gets down to a half inch or so and it loses suction. It sounds as if it is working correctly IMHO.

Charlie
 
ccflyer":3lultvcx said:
The pump does come on every several minutes, it just doesn't sense the water. It only pumps out water when I hit the manual switch. Later today I'm going to see if I can open it up and find "something stuck". Failing that I guess its off to get another at West Marine - ouch!
Thanks for all your responses
Phil
Click to expand...

If it is the type that comes on every several minutes, the water sensing mechanism is that it detects a change in the physical resistance to the impeller as a need for more current to move the impeller. E.g. it will not detect water UNTIL it comes on as there is no float switch or other water level sensor. Then when it does come on, it will stay on until the water level drops. Most who have had these types of pumps were annoyed by the 2.5 min cycling keeping them awake when they tried to sleep on board and they replaced the pump with one that has a float switch.
 
The new model number is a 27s which takes a 1 1/8 inch discharge hose. They only run for one second to sense if there is water every 2.5 minutes. Which sounds like maybe a newer version of the above described pump. The instructions say power use is minimal as it only use .25 amp hours per day in the checking mode. It also says that you start the pump anytime by turning off power for five minutes and then turn power back on the pump will start immediately and pump until the water is gone. The black wire goes to the negative side of the battery, the brown wire goes to the automatic side of the switch and the brown and white goes to the manual side of the switch. The pump needs a minimum of 10.5 volts to operate. They cost about 99 dollars from Defender Marine. You don't have to connect the the brown and white if you do not want the manual over ride option according to the directions sitting on my desk. :D
D.D.
 
I have two of the 27S on the Caracal--and had not been aware of any distraction--but I don't try and sleep aboard--from the cycling. It will run down the batteries over weeks if I leave it on. (I have not measured the draw).
 
FYI: I found a number of mixed reviews on the "water sensing" vs float switch pumps.
I chose to stick with the present water sensing model.
I got my best price and West Marine matched it - $88.83.
If this one fails again I'm switching to the float switch type.
 
I think I have the same pump that Ferret 30 has. Is there any way to test whether the interior float switch is working other than by removing the two screws and seeing whether the float moves up and down?
 
dread":2p4r0pkx said:
I think I have the same pump that Ferret 30 has. Is there any way to test whether the interior float switch is working other than by removing the two screws and seeing whether the float moves up and down?
Click to expand...
If you have enough wire going to the pump, unclip it from the basket and stick in a small container of water to see if it comes on.
 
dread":2zsflun2 said:
I think I have the same pump that Ferret 30 has. Is there any way to test whether the interior float switch is working other than by removing the two screws and seeing whether the float moves up and down?
Click to expand...

Just un-clip it from the basket and turn it upside down while it's still wired up. Or dump a lot of water in your bilge!
 
The latest Rule-Mate 1100 (the rectangular ones,) are all electronic, no float switch. And if they detect oil, they don't pump. I asked the mfg why they put this feature in and the reply was "to offer an additional, new feature." There's supposed to be a switch on the pump that tests the pump. Actually when you think about that, it only tests the motor.

Not being happy with all electronics with great new features, I installed a bilge pump with an external switch. That way, when I lift the switch, the motor comes on and I know all is well.

Boris
 
The pump I'd most recommend now after installing one is a Johnson Ultima field sensing one (like this: http://www.boatersplus.com/john-125...se&utm_content=EB-6032626&utm_campaign=google). It senses water through the case in two locations, the higher level turns it on, and when the water is no longer sensed at the lower level it turns off. To test it, you put your fingers over the two circles on the side of the housing and it'll switch on. No need to unmount it or anything.
 
I recently bought two of the Johnson Ultimas for my 22. I actually found them to have mixed reviews, so at first I only bought one, and for the second pump I bought a "regular old" bilge pump and separate float switch. But then after mocking it up in the after sump, I changed my mind and went for two of the Ultimas, because I want to be able to "toss" stuff into that area between the tanks, and the Ultima seems less cluttered and disturbable.

I don't have enough experience with them to form my own "yay or nay" opinion yet, but they are easy to test by placing two fingers over the sensors, as Ferret30 explains. They want to sit level, so I cut some fiberglass wedges to mount under the one in the galley sump (not found on all 22's), which is on around an 8-9º angle.

Sunbeam
 
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