School me on Inflatable PFD's

[NancyandBud]

I have spent a lot of time hanging upside down in kayaks in very cold water (in a drysuit) working on self-rescue skills. But for all that practice, I realize I have been pretty lax about maintaining the pair of West Marine “offshore” inflatable life jackets I keep aboard my C-Dory. I also have four good Kokatat vests in the locker under the passenger’s seat, but the inflatables are the ones my wife and I wear most often.

WM has a good article on inflatable life vest maintenance here, and that’ll be my project for tomorrow. (By the way, WM’s life jackets are on sale for a few more days. The ones I own are now half-price.)

When I went back tonight and read the specs on my alleged "offshore" inflatables, I noticed that they are listed as being "Type V with Type II performance."

According to the Coast Guard, an Offshore Lifejacket (Type 1), "is designed for extended survival in rough, open water." On the other hand, the Near Shore Buoyant Vest (Type II) is described as being "for calm inland water where there is chance of fast rescue." Can anyone explain this apparent--scary--discrepancy?

Anyway, great conversation, guys. It’s a splash of cold water for me--about 42 degrees in fact, which is the average February water temperature at Friday Harbor.

Type II performance would indicate 16 lbs buoyancy. Type V is a "special use" PFD.

Intended Use:
Restricted to the special use for which each is designed, for example: sailboard harness, deck suit, paddling vest, commercial white water vest or float coats.

 

[colbysmith]

Pandion wrote:

According to the Coast Guard, an Offshore Lifejacket (Type 1), "is designed for extended survival in rough, open water." On the other hand, the Near Shore Buoyant Vest (Type II) is described as being "for calm inland water where there is chance of fast rescue." Can anyone explain this apparent--scary--discrepancy?

This is the USCG link that discusses PFD's, their bouyancy, etc. As you can see, a type I can even have less bouyancy than a type II. I believe it's the characteristics of keeping the face out of the water that matters.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/pfdselection.asp

Here is another link that talks a little more about the various PFD types:
http://www.pfdma.org/choosing/types.aspx

 

[thataway]

Basically the type I offshore do have 32# or more of floatation. They have more head support. They have Retro Reflective material (which I think is essential)

Colby gave some of the other suggestions, but no one has mentioned crotch straps. These keep the jacket from riding up, or even inverting to put the person face down!

Other suggestions for PFD including--a good bright strobe light (many of the small lights are not adequate--several of my waterproof VHF radios have strobes on them--but not as bright as an ACR strobe. The whistle should be "waterproof"--that is drain, if it fills with water.

Face guards/sprayhoods/splashguards are available as a PFD accessory. pictured below.

Other newer PFD accessories, include AIS locator ($200), PLB, the Radio--rigging or sheep's foot knife, signal mirrors, and pocket rocket flares.. All of these should be tied to the PFD with strong line. (Other options are Shark repellant and water dye.)

If I was doing a lot of offshore sailing, one the first things to add (from the already present PLB, VHF radio, Strobe, flares,) would be the AIS--some do a DSC trigger, Current hand held VHF with DSC include Icom M93D and Standard Horizon HX 851. However, the AIS makes direction finding in fog or night time far better, from boats it can be "seen" for up to 5 miles--and a chopper probably considerably further.

 

[AstoriaDave]

Just want to reinforce a couple points:

1. A crotch strap is vital. It will keep the flotation in place help keep your face out of the water.

2. Insulation on your torso is also critically important. If you go into hypothermia, even the PFDs designed to support an unconscious person's head to allow breathing sans water are likely to fail. Once unconscious, your survival chances plummet. In this respect, full foam PFDs are superior, if cut to supply ample neck/head support.

3. Test your PFD with a swim in water of the temperature on which you boat. You will likely isolate any problems within minutes.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I think I have 2 of just about of everything. The ones that get the most use are the fanny pack pull-the-cord type. I even wear one when fishing with waders from the beach. I often get back to the house before I notice that I still have it on. Once, I drove into town and somebody at the hardware store asked me about it. Ooops.

I've tested my inflatables a few times and always grumble that the cost of the replacement items is 80% of buying a whole new inflatable. Since some of mine are getting old, it's probably time to get new ones.

I have float jackets that get used when salmon fishing in the rain. Warm, waterproof, and it has a neoprene crotch strap for exposure protection when in the water. If I'm single-handed, then I wear my Stearns flotation overalls. Those only count as a PFD when worn. I'm not sure about the jackets.

So I basically have PFDs that match the situation. The ones that are always on board are the self-inflating over the shoulder type. I've had the little "AlkaSeltzer" tablet go and found them popped open from the humidity after a few years.

Mark

 

[JamesTXSD]

The automatic ones can also be fired manually... like when moving stuff around and the tab gets pulled...



Yep, happened today. :wink: That's OK, it was due to be re-armed. I've had this one for a lot of years - wore it on the Corsair trimaran in rough conditions with the harness strapped to a jack-line.

I recall another trimaran sailor getting caught in his forward hatch (similar to the hatch over the v-berth on the C-Dorys), when the tab caught on something and the PFD inflated. Pretty sure I had a chuckle over that.. karma sometimes takes a long time to get ya. :twisted:

 

[hardee]

I carry 4 inflatable PFD's and all are of the "Hydrostatic" type, meaning they have to go into the water, be submerged several inches before they inflate. In 10 years, I have had one accidental inflation, (a guest, pulled the tab while standing on the dock :shock: I told her "Quick get into the water, It needs to be cooled off :wink: :lol: I stopped her just shy of getting her feet wet.

The hydrostatics have a pressure monitor gauge, indicating green or red condition, and the inflation cylinder and sensor device do not have to be changed every year, but it says to change if not in the green, (paraphrase there). The moisture sensing, "pill systems may need changing each year, as the humidity softens the pill and could allow inflation, even though not in the water. The hydrostatic system will be the more expensive of the two systems but, I only have to replace every 3 years. The charging kit, IIRC, was about $35 for mine and about 25 for the annual replacement type.

I agree that you should try them in the water some time to know what that is going to be like.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[AstoriaDave]

That photo of the inflated PFD reminded me that we had one go off while in a mesh duffle, which "grew" substantially one day while sitting on deck, awaiting storage as we unloaded at the float. We got a huge laugh out of it.

 

[hardee]

Dr Bob said:

"Other newer PFD accessories, include AIS locator ($200), PLB, the Radio--rigging or sheep's foot knife, signal mirrors, and pocket rocket flares.. All of these should be tied to the PFD with strong line. (Other options are Shark repellant and water dye.)

If I was doing a lot of offshore sailing, one the first things to add (from the already present PLB, VHF radio, Strobe, flares,) would be the AIS--some do a DSC trigger,.... However, the AIS makes direction finding in fog or night time far better, from boats it can be "seen" for up to 5 miles--and a chopper probably considerably further.

Bold emphasis mine.

I gave this device a very strong consideration, and though I opted for the PLB, the AIS Emergency Signal device is still not far off the list. I waters where there is lots of vessel traffic, and with many non commercial AIS units out there, and especially with so many "Receive Only" systems now available, that increases your chanc for a quick response considerably.

Of course that response would depend on the vessel operators paying attention to their plotter screen, recognizing the emergency AIS signal and knowing what to do in response. Much of that is easy as pie, but the paying attention is up for grabs. Story to follow:

Last summer, I had occasion to encounter (as he was approaching my path from Starboard) a 40 foot vessel named "Stay Alert" (I got the name, size and the 2 important factors off the AIS, Closest point of Approach, and Time to CPA) when he was still about 2 miles away, and the indicators were that it was going to be close in both time and distance. I was with 4 kayaks, so speed to move was not an option. After trying to make radio contact with "Stay Alert" on 16, 9, 13, 7, 14, and 66 with no response, and having alerted the kayaks of the impending close contact, and no response from "Stay Alert" He passed us within 150 feet, doing 22 knots and throwing a 3+foot wake. Had there been fog, no AIS or Radar, it might have been a disaster. Had "Stay Alert" s plotter had an AIS Emergency signal pop up, I suspect that whoever generated that signal and needed to get out of the water, would have either been run over, or left to his own devices to get out of that water.

As for me, If I ever see "Stay Alert" pop up on the AIS again, I will know to not count on it for any likely evidence of being alert. Also, it will get a very wide birth from SleepyC.

Now back to the Thread. It is my feeling that the AIS Emergency device would be a benefit to anyone in the water in Puget Sound, San Juan or Gulf islands area due to the frequent AIS using traffic there.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[bobjarrard]

I started my kids in their own sailboats at age 5. They cold swim and were as water safe as a five year can be but until they got out of high school and did not sail, they wore the vesti if in the boat. I remember watching my eight year old daughter sailing her 8' Naples Sabot in the LA Outer harbor as she had to make a choice of challenging an inboard freighter that looked like a mountain in the water for her right of way or losing a race where she was well in the lead. No time in moments of challenge to review your safety precautions. The same mentality of safety first carries over to driving a car and investing our savings!!
PS: Did you see Jim's new boat in the picture of his vest that went off sorta of by itself. If you do not follow their blog, you might take a look, they are still C-Brats and I get a big kick out of reading about their very interesting life!!
bob Jarrard

 

[NancyandBud]

The automatic ones can also be fired manually... like when moving stuff around and the tab gets pulled...



Yep, happened today. :wink: That's OK, it was due to be re-armed. I've had this one for a lot of years - wore it on the Corsair trimaran in rough conditions with the harness strapped to a jack-line.

I recall another trimaran sailor getting caught in his forward hatch (similar to the hatch over the v-berth on the C-Dorys), when the tab caught on something and the PFD inflated. Pretty sure I had a chuckle over that.. karma sometimes takes a long time to get ya. :twisted:

Is that your new boat?

 

[colbysmith]

Harvey, the only problem with all these nice electronics, are folks knowing how to use them! AIS and DSC are great tools. But I'm betting the majority wouldn't know an DSC call or AIS alert from an engine warning horn. AIS might get used a bit more if folks have the contacts also displayed on their multi function chart plotters, but are they aware of all the information that can be garnered from that contact? I'd be happy if most folks even understood the right of way rules. (And no, it isn't always biggest boat has the right away, such as that yacht that screamed by you guys.) But mostly preaching to the choir here... :roll: Colby

 

[thataway]

A follow up on the "Crew Saver" inflatable life jackets which were on sale at Defender. We received 3 of these several days ago. They do say"Type V PFD, count only when worn". Type III performance.

I have not checked any other of the inflatables (except the older ones we own--which are Type V).

 

[JamesTXSD]

The automatic ones can also be fired manually... like when moving stuff around and the tab gets pulled...



Yep, happened today. :wink: That's OK, it was due to be re-armed. I've had this one for a lot of years - wore it on the Corsair trimaran in rough conditions with the harness strapped to a jack-line.

I recall another trimaran sailor getting caught in his forward hatch (similar to the hatch over the v-berth on the C-Dorys), when the tab caught on something and the PFD inflated. Pretty sure I had a chuckle over that.. karma sometimes takes a long time to get ya. :twisted:

Is that your new boat?

Yes, Bud. A big change from Wild Blue. Well, probably more accurate as: a small change: 16', no cabin, but lots of comfortable seating. Our use will be different: day tripping, a few hours at a time, dolphin-watching, sight-seeing. No trailering, other than to our storage unit when it comes out of the water. Simple and easy, much like making the change from a road bike to the scoots a few years ago. Or, a diesel pickup to a sporty SUV.

We were boatless for two years, but I certainly get plenty of helm time driving the commercial boats. Joan was ready for another boat... as you can imagine, we discussed a lot of different options.

Sorry to hijack the inflatable PFD thread, but here's how we're using the boat...













I haven't been posting about it here, because it doesn't pertain to C-Dorys, even though I still check in here most days. This place, like the TSBB where we first met, still feels like home.

Best wishes,
Jim

 

[hardee]

Jim, Great to see you here anytime, and for me too, feels like home, although I still have a C-Dory, I'm not at home as much now and this is the part I take with me, and when I can't connect, I miss it most.

Back to the PFD theme. I missed seeing it in you pix :wink:

Good to see you here.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon