Securing Boat On Trailer

S

Sea Wolf

New member
On Edit:

This topic was split off from another discussion starting with this post in reply to Sneaks asking:

One problem I do have is the fact that no matter how tight I make the transom tiedowns, the boat's stern still slides back and forth on turns. Stops when the bunker hits the outer strake, of course, but it is a tad disconcerting. Any hints? Or is this the usual C-Dory behavior?
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Don

Do you have guide-ons on the trailer to center it when retrieving at the launch ramp?

I've never noticed my boat moving around on my EZ Loader roller trailer. My guide-ons are 2 x 4's, placed 4 inches below the rubbing strakes, from 1 foot in front of the transom to just behind the front windows and adjusted with 1" of clearance on each side to keep the boat centered. The metal support structure from the trailer frame upward to the padded 2 x 4's is made up of metal box channel at least as big as the 2 x 4's. I suspect the substantial nature of these structures keeps the boat from moving around. Some guide-ons are only about half this height, not as long or substantial, and/or not adjusted as tightly. Other trailers simply don't have them at all.

As an additional means of securing your boat to your trailer, I'd suggest you add to the vertically oriented transom straps which allow some side movement (kind of like a parallelogram or box without a bottom member). I'd add cross straps from the lower right of the trailer to the upper left of the boat and from the lower left of the trailer to the upper right of the boat. You could also add a single heavy duty strap forward of the transom, say about 2 feet, from the trailer frame up over the gunnels of the boat and back down to the trailer frame. Hope I didn't over do the correction possibilities! Joe.
 
Don, the boat sliding on the trailer is not normal... I assume you have bunks and not rollers? It was hard to tell from the two trailer photos in your album. I my Ez-loader trailer with rollers, there's no movement side to side but I do need to pull the bow down with a ratcheting tie down to keep it from bouncing on the bow roller. The standard tie dow for the stern provided by the factory with an Ez-loader is a 2" wide nylon strap that runs from one side rail of the trailer across the gunnels and back down to the other side. When this is cranked down tight, there's no side-to-side movement on mine. The first thing I would try on your trailer would be to add a similar tie-down. You can see the attachment point on the trailer in a photo (#11) in my album. The attachments can be obtained from EZ-loader for a few $'s a piece.

As an aside, the first day I picked up the boat at the factory, the guy working there towed it to De Moines with NO ties downs and was going to give it to me that way to take home! When I inquired about tie-downs, he said "You don't really need those"... After some insisting on my part, I got the tie-down that goes across the gunnels AND I had the tie-downs added to the transom too. Fortunately, the guy who did the test ride with me no longer works at the factory (probably due to the "excellent" advice he was giving).

Roger
 
Joe and Roger:

My problem is that it's easy to write to be understood but damn hard to write to not be misunderstood. I'll try to describe the problem a little clearer.

I have bunks not rollers, and I have very similar guideons as Joe, though mine have about 1/2" clearance at the belly and the board bottom is 2" higher than the Walla exhaust. I have no problem centering the boat and though the stern is often a few inches off, it's usually easily "nudged" to center. I've read several "centering aids" pictured here, so I know that part is a common C-22 phenomena when recovering the boat.

The bow is easily cinched up, strapped, chain backup, and never goes anywhere on the road.

The stern has transom strap attachment points almost directly above the trailer's corresponding attachment points. Maybe 2" outboard at the most. Therein lies the problem IMHO. In a turn, keeping the stern centered is almost totally dependent upon the "stiction" at the bunker/hull interface. Slick bunker pile makes it worse. OTOH, with straps firmly racheted down, the hull can only slide about 3" before the chine hits the bunker and stops it cold, so maybe I'm just nitpicking a minor irritant into a major problem. It's only when I think about a major avoidance maneuver at freeway speeds that the butterflies take off.

Roger, my (brand X) 23 footer had both bow and transom 2" straps since it was trailed deep into Baja where the roads have rather interesting qualities. Because it was a deep vee, it never slid sideways, but the straps did eventually mar the gel coat rather badly. I don't believe a strap will stop the slide, only ensure it won't bounce off the trailer or go past the chine.

Joe, the cross transom strap method sounds great, but when I looked, it ain't that simple since there is no direct path between the starboard trailer attachment point and the port transom attachment point, for example, without drilling a big hole right through the Yamaha. :cry: Unless somebody here has a better solution, in addition to the normal straps I intended to just put two cross straps from convenient bunker clamps, which will go a long way toward alleviating the present "slip sliding." Maybe if I just slowed down it might help too, ya think? :?

Don
 
without drilling a big hole right through the Yamaha.
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I say go ahead and do it. If it were a Honda, different story.

My 22 trailer was roller, and it bugged the dickens out of me when the boat would move sideways, even though the movement was stopped by one or the other of the chines coming up against the edge of a roller. It never got over far enough to touch a fender, and the weight shift was nothing to worry about, but it ticked me off to look in the mirror and see the boat sitting cockeyed when I had been so careful to get it centered at the ramp. The 25, well, it don't move, so I don't worry about such things anymore. But if I still had the bouncing 22, I would have made something similar to, and doubling as, the centering gizmos talked about in the other mentioned thread. Only difference is I would leave the things in place until ready to launch. If they are positioned on the side guides right at the rear posts for same, and tight against the hull, the boat ain't moving. Most folks, however, like to keep the side guide carpet from touching the gelcoat when on the trailer. I guess you would have to decide what bothers you more: a cockeyed boat, or a straight boat with the shine knocked off where the gizmos touched it.

The tie down for my 22, and now for the 25, is the strap over the gunnels. And you're right - it is to prevent the boat from bouncing up, and doesn't do a dang thing about the sideways movement. I only use the thing on long tows. I looked at putting eyes on for transom tie downs, but the geometry didn't look like it would allow enough of anything to do any good. Besides, even though that is what those eyes are for, you don't want to put a lot of stress on them because they are fastened to an expensive piece of fiberglass.

So, it looks to me like a guy has to either wedge the boat in place, or let it slide until it wedges itself.

Have you ever noticed with engineers that when there is a real and immediate problem they are nowhere to be found, but when things are going smoothly they seem to have lots of advice? I used the term "geometry" in this post, so I would expect DoD up in AK to recognize it as a cue and offer some scientific perspective to the discussion. But, nope, he ain't here.
 
Tyboo wrote (in very small text so only those with the time and penchant for detail would notice):

"Have you ever noticed with engineers that when there is a real and immediate problem they are nowhere to be found, but when things are going smoothly they seem to have lots of advice? I used the term "geometry" in this post, so I would expect DoD up in AK to recognize it as a cue and offer some scientific perspective to the discussion. But, nope, he ain't here."

Time for an "The Engineers vs. The Pragmatists" thread? Or maybe the next Poll should be-

Whose advice to you trust the most? Place in rank order-

Scientists

Engineers

Naval Architects (form of engineer)

boat builders

professional mariners / seamen / pilots / captains / navy personnel

boat dealers and marine repair mechanics

engine manufactures and professional representatives

do-it-yourself boat owners and part-time backyard boat and motor mechanics

the neighbor next door with the Bayliner, blow torch, and bottle of beer

nobody but myself, but I'm too chicken to act until I've consulted with all the experts above on the C-Brats or C-Dogs sites.

Wha da ya think? Joe.
 
TyBoo":2djt1eix said:
So, it looks to me like a guy has to either wedge the boat in place, or let it slide until it wedges itself.
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Two other solutions; Move up to a 25 or just live with it and not be as concerned with centering while recovering. It bugs me too, but I don't think it'll present any danger unless and until I forget to strap down the stern and get overexuberant on our local tightly curved uphill freeway ramp. Easily done in a juiced Duramax I'm afraid....

Thought about wedges too, but then gel coat rubbing is a concern. At least it's somewhat self correcting until one makes the last turn before parking and storing the boat. :( I guess it's better that new C-Dory owners know the phenomena exists anyway. Pac Trailer had no solution, because I asked. OTOH those same people rigged a spare for me while I was getting warranty work done and installed the wrong size spare. :roll: Now they get to correct their misteak without me driving 180 miles RT to get it corrected. No, I didn't check that before I left Chino. Who would have guessed anybody would do something that dumb?
 
I looked for a photo of the stern on the trailer and didn't see one. Why is it you can't tie the stern straps in an 'X' pattern? Seems to be the best solution. Only cost would be longer straps... or possibly you could manufacturer some form of extension... I have a the same boat and trailer but haven't noticed it moving about... guess I will start looking closer!

BTW, I have the LED sealed lights on my trailer and it appears my trailer would have been manufactured before yours. Wonder why you don't have LEDs?
 
Ken, here's a quick shot of the stern.

stern.jpg

You can see that there's no path from the port transom tie down to the starboard trailer tie down eye because of the swim step and the motor mount. One might get a strap in the other direction and live with it rubbing the mount, but that too will eventually rub the paint off on long tows and won't work on mine because of the trim tabs.

As for why mine has incandescent rather than LED, I'm not sure, except I know the trailer was first built in 2004, and the boat was stored at the trailer manufacturer's facility until the dealer got a 2005 Yamaha in stock, so it may just be that your is newer than mine.

Don

P.S. I park with the motor down because I don't have room if it's raised. Well, I do have a few inches, but one miscalculation with 600# of torque pushing it would make a new hole in my stucco really quick. I normally tow with it up.
 
Don-

Nice looking boat and trailer! Good photo, too!

I can see from the geometry of your swim step, trim tabs, and motor that the X-strap as originally proposed wouldn't work for you. The other possible problem is that different trailers extend bckward below the transom differently, some being longer than others. From the dead on end of transom corner, I can't tell if the following would work or not, but you might take s string or just a look-see to check it out.

Since the lower motor mount bolts extend out somewhat beyond the end of the motor bracket, could a eyelet fitting be placed over the remaining "stud" that extends out beyond the regular retaining nut on these lower motor mount bolts and serve as a tie down point? To be useful, a strap attached to these would have to have a clear path to another tie down eyelet on the rear of the trailer frame that would not strike the swim step, trim tabs, or lower edge of the transom/hull joint. An eye-bolt of significant strength, say 5/8-3/4" shaft could extend out backward from the rear trailer x-member up to 6-8 inches to reach out to meet the tie-down cross strap (???) Joe.
 
Don-

Another thought: If the above would work, the distance might be rather short to use a nylon strap with ratchet, etc. If it's short enough, get a big turnbuckle with considerable adjustment and a compound lever tightener to really cinch er' down. End of side movement, period. Joe.
 
Sea Wolf":13z0mfk7 said:
End of side movement, period.
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Indeed, Joe.

One of the outstanding benefits of interacting with a large group of owners is learning that you're not alone when it comes to things like this. No need to reinvent the wheel, since someone somewhere either has a fix or good suggestion that solves it. It's never a matter of "how do I fix it," more "which suggestion appeals to me the most." In this case, until I face the long tow up to the Mothership Headquarters, I'll probably just leave well enough alone.

As an aside, you can see from the photo that the rearmost crossmember is inordinately low. It does scrape occasionally but one has to remember that most boats are modified or deep vee configurations and trailer manufacturers make frames that are "one size fits all." :cry:

Don
 
Towed Sealife all the way home from the factory (1100+miles) and never noticed any movement of the boat on the trailer (Pacific bunks). Only problem I've had is the rear of the trailer bottoming out when pulling out of a deeply crowned driveway, or backing into one. In a moment of brilliant inspiration, I saw on another trailer a pair of bolt on little, metal, wheels, fastened to the rearmost crossmember of the trailer. Instead of the frame contacting the road, the wheels do, permitting the trailer to ride over the crown. On my list to buy a pair. Understand they are available in RV supply stores.
 
As mentioned, I have the same boat and trailer as Sneaks. Also noticed after looking at the latest photo that I have the same straps too... don't know why mine don't slip and slide...

Concerning the pavement scraping by the rear crossmember mentioned by both Sneaks and Sealife, I did have this situation. I don't know what you all will say about my fix, but after I saw the price of those little metal wheels (they sell them in RV World) I began looking for another way. What I did was to drill a new bolt hole above the crossmenber on the inner to uprights. Moved the bolt and used a cutting wheel to cut off those tits that stick down. Don't scrape my driveway anymore. Makes 'what's her face' happy too!

As for the LED's on my trailer, I learned that the previous owner swapped trailers, from single axle to dual axle, earlier this year... January I think. Seems there is stuff I didn't think about until I started reading the forums... :embarrased
 
k3nlind":1pmjiedk said:
What I did was to drill a new bolt hole above the crossmenber on the inner two uprights. Moved the bolt and used a cutting wheel to cut off those tits that stick down.
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What did you do to treat the raw edges for rust prevention, Ken?


Don



.
 
Don. I just looked at your pic of your boat. my strap runs from the side of the boat over both lazarates just in front of the engine. I never have a problem with the boat moving or bounceing. I dod not know and can not see if you have attachment points that far forward but they could be added. Also I have noticed that most people do not crank down on there straps near enough. they think they will pull out the eye hook fromt he boat. Well if the boat gets to bouncing and the straps are not really tight then you may just pull one out. I had not used the over the top straps before this boat but have been impressed with how well they work.
 
Tom-

I hear you about the need to really tighten the hold down straps! I'd also caution folks to loosen them up during storage, however.

Back when we raced sailboats, a major consideration was to loosen all the tension of the hold downs and bow retainers (winch, whatever) when storing the boat to prevent distortion of the hull. Of course, the heavy cored bottom of the C-Dory(s) is much stronger than that of a light racing sailboat, but I still think the idea has merit.

Any inward dents in the hull are very slow, especially at planning speeds, and extra tension downward on the bunks or rollers can also cause problems with bottom paint, if you have it, which tends to make it stick to rollers and bunks, then pull loose upon re-launching!

Tow it tight, store it loose. Joe.
 
Sneaks wrote:
What did you do to treat the raw edges for rust prevention
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Golly gee, I didn't do anything... didn't even think about it. The Pacific is billed as: "the finest and most rust and corrosion resistant trailer on today’s market." True this doesn't mean that it won't rust. Hmmmm, maybe I should mix up a little fiberglass resin and 'paint' the area at the cut. That should keep oxygen out and avoid any possibility of rust. I could touch it up every spring... add that to my yearly maintenance checks, etc. etc. You have any better ideas besides from maybe I shouldn't have cut it in the first place? Say you aren't pulling my chain are you? I have a galvanized fence that is out in the weather 24x7 and it don't rust...
 
k3nlind":2e45wopt said:
Say you aren't pulling my chain are you?
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Not unless it ain't galvanized.

Once the galvanized coating is compromised, the underlying steel starts rusting almost immediately. I punched a hole in a brace to put a small "step" up near the winch and used 3M 5200 to seal the exposed steel because it was strong, waterproof, and (most importantly) sitting on a shelf in my garage. I was hoping you had a better idea. When Pac Trailer did an extra weld on my trailer's swing tongue, they had some sort of special welding rod that "sputtered" a galvanized coating over the weld.

At this point I'm hoping someone who knows what he/she is doing will step in and tell us the best way.

Don
 
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