Silence on the C-Ranger 25

Well,
As promised, I got some time to play on the C Ranger 25. I believe it is Hull #7--Flag Blue, and arrived the day of the beginning of the Gulf Coast gathering--so there had been very little detailing of the boat.

Marie and I took the boat out alone, and then a second time with a couple who was interesting in buying one.

Speed: Top speed--up and down River was average of 17.5 Miles an hour (not knots). This was at 3800 RPM, and I believe that the governer was limiting the speed. At 3200 RPM--or max sustained cruising speed, the boat was making 13.5 mph (I'll post the exact speed and RPM table we found with a GPS in the morning, when I put up photos). This boat had the 125 hp Yanmar. The engine was smooth--and quiet inside--especially at lower cruising speeds--The boat was most comfortable in the 8 or so knot category. The boat had to have the trim tabs fully down at all speeds over 7 knots to keep her running near level. I had the feeling that you would get significant spray into a head sea, but that the boat would handle most conditions well.

Visability foreward was excellent--much better than the C Dories and Tom Cat 255's. I think that the windshield wipers were adequate--but probably one would want fresh water washers eventually if in salt water.
The visability aft to the stb side was non existant--and this is where the Tom Cats and C Dories shine, with windows thru the head. The oval window in the center door also did restrict visablity aft--video cameras for your RayMarine 120?

The swim step was substantial, appeared to be of Starboard and would take a small kicker--or a dinghy on its side--but that would hurt visability--and be limited to less than 8 feet LOA.

The boat is very different than the C Dories--there is what I call "mouse fur"headliner--short nap type of poly carpet. Attractive, but in some places not well finished (will be in photo). The teak in the head and on the main saloon table was varnished and looked striking. Some of the other teak was oiled and looked very good. A lot of the teak was not finished--and looked unfinished. In my opinion it should be either oiled or varnished to be in keeping with the rest of the character of the boat.

The boat was very "yachty" appearing inside. There were recessed brass lights in the ceiling--I suspect a couple of them were red for preserevation of night vision. There were four opening ceiling clear hatches--I would have prefered at least one or three opening front/side windows for ventillation. But the light and airyness was very good.

I laid down in the aft coffin bunk (entrance aft of the dinette, feet under the table--and with a hatch to the outside cockpit)--I could sleep in there, but I am used to sleeping in quarter berths in racing sailboats. Most people would find this quite restrictive. I am a bit puzzled in the inclusion of this bunk--it would much better be used as a storage area in my opinion. I cannot see the family with two children who would use this--or taking two guests along who would use this bunk (it would be very tight for two adults). This is the type of bunk/cabin which has been used for years in Bayliners (and I don't mean this in a negitive way). But this is clostrophobic for many people and hard to get in and out of. The foreward V berth is slightly larger than a C Dory's, but since there were several cushions, I would think that a single over foam cover would make it much more comfortable.

The galley was quite nice size--with good counter space suplimented by the helms seat folding foreward and down. The stove was athwartships, and Marie did not like the idea of reaching across the one burner to reach the other. We have this arrangement in a Road Trek RV, and I don't mind it, but she does. Storage was good under the counter. The refigerator is larger than most of the C Dory line has and seemed ample.

The head was definately larger than the C Dory 25 and Tom Cat--it had a separate sink and was very nicely appointed--but a shower curtain would be necessary, and several gals noted that keeping the teak clean may be some work.

The helm seat was very comfortable. The navigator seat was both comfortable and easy to flip/flop to use for the dinette or navigator seat.
The boat was extremely maneuverable. She backed to port, but even berthing to starboard, without using the thrusters, she handled very well, and was easy to maneuver. She would turn in about her own length, even with out the the thruster--probably due to the large rudder. I could get her to steer well in reverse and put the stern most anywhere with ease. There was a slight port list--but not all tanks were full and batteries were to Port.
Then, with bow and stern thrusters--wow! What a joy to maneuver!
The boat tracked well. She seemed to be stable in the several boat wakes we went thru--but I suspect that she would roll some in a beam sea--narrow beam, fairly high windage, and weight aloft. We only ran the boat on the river/ICW.

The deck hardware: There were no stern cleats. No foreward chocks. I don't know if this was an oversight or just the way the boat was bult. I was concerned about the foreward railings--they were high, and I had difficulty getting between the house and railings (I am 6' 2" and about 185 lbs). I was not comfortable with what appeared to be two point anchorage of the base of the railing--it was much less substantial than what has been used on the Tom Cat 255. I hope it was thru bolted and backed. I could not varify this. There were holes for the nav nights which were just drilled in the fiberglass cabin roof--no sealant or cable pass thru fitting. I would be concerned that there would be leakage around these fittings.

The cockput hatches (over the generator, engine and batteries) had drains around the scuppers, both fore and aft, but there was no latch on the hatches (like on the fishboxes of the Tom Cat 255). I would be concerned that if a boarding sea got in the cockpit, (There is a transom door) that hatches would leak or allow significant water intrusion. The battery charger was right on the floor next to the lead acid batteries under a cockpit hatch.

The smoke stack did not seem to be an item which added anything to the boat. I would much prefer a well designed davit so a dinghy or inflatable could be hauled aboard. (Since there is no compression post, perhaps an A frame might have to be used) The "mast" did not appear to be suitable for any lifting--and even running radar cable thru it might be tight. The boat only had a depth finder (Garmin) and side mount VHF antenna, so I don't know how the cables are handled comming from the "Mast".

This boat also appeared to have an under sized fuse for the VHF radio (it blew on first transmission on high power, and we replaced it with a 10 amp fuse) There was a second fuse which was blown--not sure what it was, but a 10 amp fuse also solved that.

It is nice to have a built in diesel generator and air conditioning--but it seems a bit "Dear" at almost $12,000. The generator is definately louder than the Honda EU2000i. I am not sure how much better the marine AC unit is than the RV type of Polar Cub, but the latter can be used on a trailer of if the boat is pulled up to a sand bar--and only costs about 1/10th as much....

In some places the joinery was excellent--a couple of other places screw heads were left bare, without plugs. All in all, the boat gave a very nice impresssion. It certainly fulfills the easily trailerable "trawler" type of boat. But, with the 125 hp engine, it is not really a fast trawler--I would personally run it in the 8 knot range. Would I trade my Tom Cat 255 for the C Ranger? No way. The C Ranger 25 may well be more economical, but even at $450 a fill up of the fuel tanks of the Tom Cat, it would take a long time to make up for the increased cost of the C Ranger, plus there is the limited speed.

I would wonder if the boat might be offered with an option of storage in place of the under the dinette bunk--perhaps putting the air conditioning compressor under there too? With some detailing/varnish/upgrading of deck hardware, this will be a striking "mini" Trawler.

I would be happy to comment off list or send my photos who anyone who is interested.
 
Bob

Thanks for your timely and straight forward assessment of the CR-25. I still feel that unless you are willing to be limited to around 8 kts, this boat is way under powered and I don't believe has been tested loaded as if for a long cruise. However there are a lot of bigger boats that, simply for economics, are never run over 8 kts. There is a class of boaters that find this exactly what they want. However, bigger engines will run economically at 8 knts too.

I wonder if some additional HP would reduce the reliance on the trim tabs to keep the bow down. I am not sure I understand the fact that without trim tabs in full down position, there is no speed beyond hull speed where the boat gets past climbing mode.

It doesn't appear that they are going to make any changes neccessary to make the D3 Volvo fit or test the bigger Yanmar for fit any time soon. A person wanting a boat for next summer and not willing to accept the lack of power will have to be patient and give up next summers plans or find something else.
 
I tried bringing the tabs up at each speed, and the bow rise was un acceptable. High bow rise at mid range speeds goes along with most of the "V" hulls. My feeling was that if the boat got up to 20 + mph that one could start to retract the tabs--but since the boat didn't get there, that remains only conjecteral.

Agree that it is great to have that extra power-(No it is essential to have extra power)--because if you get caught out in headwinds and head seas, you will need it to make decent way. The major question is would one run this boat at 13 or so mph. I had a boat which handled almost identically--but it was heavier, longer and had a larger diesel--even with 150 hp that boat would not get over 12 knots--same problems with bow rise, require tabs.

Enjoy the sea trial--and try and get the boat out in some rough weather to see how she handles. In smooth water, she is one of the best handling boats of that size I have run. Very comfortable!
 
There are quite a few differences between the American Tug and the C Ranger-even accounting for the size difference. The colors are similar, but no cockpit over hang of the boat deck; in fact no boat deck on the C Ranger. No side doors on the wheel house, and no windows for visability aft: small portholes on the foreward cabin house. Much different walk around decks--and cockpit etc. I am not sure about the deadrise on the hull of the American Tug.

Here are the numbers I got on the C Ranger--an average of equal number of runs up and down river, with and against current and wind.

Idle (650 RPM) 3.1 Miles an hour 2.7 knots
1000 RPM 4 Miles an hour 3.5 knots
1600 RPM 6.5 Miles an hour 5.7 knots
2000 RPM 7.5 Miles an hour 6.5 knots
2500 RPM 8.8 Miles an hour 7.7 knots
3000 RPM 11.2 Miles an hour 9.7 knots
3200 RPM 13.2 Miles an hour 11.4 knots
3400 RPM 14.5 Miles an hour 12.6 knots
3600 RPM 16 miles an hour 13.9 knots
3800 RPM 17.5 Miles an hour 15.2 knots
 
I'm new to the board, a transitioning sailor with an order in for a Ranger 25. I did my sea trial 2 days ago out of Tacoma an a rainy, blustery day and have a couple of things to add to Bob's excellent assessment of his trial. I was blown away by the handling of the boat. If anything, she feels more like a sailboat than other power boats I have been on. There was about 1-2 feet of chop and the boat just sliced through it with no pounding, even when we hit a 3 ft swell at about 12 knots. That did send some water onto the windows, but hardly budged the ride. When the swell was on our beam, she also handled it well, especially on plane. At displacement speed, there was a little role, but it was not objectionable. The transition from displacment to plane is very smooth with the tabs down. The trial boat was apparently the last of the 125 hp Yanmars. Mine will be a 110. I don't think it will be a problem as we couldn't take this engine above 3000 rpm (it was brand new) and it produced plenty of speed for a sailor, about 12 knots. In truth, I loved putting along at 6 - 7 knots. If you don't have to go 20 knots, this boat is hard to beat.
 
I was able to join a friend for a Sea Trial on Monday. We left Pt Defiance in Tacoma and went down to the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and back. This was Hull Number 7. We will able to take it to 14 Knots at 3800 rpm.

I was very impressed with how the boat handled. It truly turns on a dime. The trim tabs allow it to get up on plain nicely.

The weather was snotty and the wipers worked just fine. They do not cover the entire window but offer plenty of visibility.

We had to crack the windows to clear them. Fans would be a nice addition.

The heater and Wallas required removing our jackets.

The Ray Marine C-120? was a great size screen but for a a tall guy 6.2 it was difficult to see the top of the screen.

The pilots chair is excellent.

The salon is nicely set up. The teak is intentionally not finished allowing the new owner to determine whether to go with oil or varnish.

The marine fabric is high end and serves also as a nice sound barrier. A real step up from the C-Dory interior.

The noise level from the Yanmar allows for a fine conversation.

I was disappointed with the stereo system but it may have been the tuning.

I was very impressed with the how much room there is. I have not seen a 25 ft boat with more space. The reverable seating for the dinnete is nicely enginered and quite adequate for a guy my size.

I might add I am claustrophobic and I would have no problem sleeping in the under berth because there is plenty of head space.

The head/shower is well designed.

The one short coming might be the size of the cockpit. It would be a tight fit for four people in deck chairs.

One of the well thought out features is the brake lights and turn signals are built into the hull with a built in system to plug them into the trailer lights. I was very impressed how easy it was to load onto a trailer. The 3/4 ton pick up using two wheel drive easily towed the boat out of the water and up steep incline leaving Pt. Defiance.

I wish my rich brother rich brother would go in 70 / 30. There may be bugs to work out but I agree with Dusty it is going to be fine craft.
 
And puttiing this hull into a slip is a dream with the bow and stern thrusters. You basically just think of what you want the boat to do, and thump the appropriate thruster...and BINGO! Ya get what you ask for. Backed into a slip twice in the same day, differant winds and current each time (as always). And to be able to just spin'er in place in a tight slip area with the winds wanting to blow you about ....these thrusters are a real gem. Plus, it just looks and feels neat to pivot this boat like a mechanical chair. One of the back-up or rear pointing video cameras would have topped this set up off like melted chocolate, whip cream and a cherry on ice cream.

Still think this boat has a lot of potential for those of us who like the go slow trawler speeds...and drop back down in size on the motor, and basically use her as a displacement hull. Now I am not smart enough to figure out the weight/speed ratio gig once you start putting all your cruising gear on board...clothes, coolers, food, coolers, rain gear, coolers, people, coolers, full water and fuel, and all our little toys we keep on our boats... but for a "day-sailor".... you might be able to keep the speeds. Spend a day on your current boat taking everything out of all the cracks, crannies, shelves, benches, seats, corners, and weigh them out... You might be just as surprised as I was...

Very nice boat in the making for sure. A very sweet boat. It just begs to go somewhere distant in screwed up weather with the crew warm and dry and grinning lile a possem....and sqeals just go back me into a slip with folks watching!!! Look Mom!!! No gel-coat repair needed!!!
 
I have been rebuilding my tug after it went up into the rocks...(not a Ranger tug).... one of the things that was destroyed was my rudder....I located a bronze rudder with a wing on it..... kinda different... but what the wing is supposed to do is add lift as more power is applied to it...I am anxious to try this as once I get to hull speed the bow raises and the stern digs in..... possibly I will be able to get another mph out of it if I can keep it in a level or semi-level position....at least I won't need to use trim tabs.... (I don't have em)
I won't be able to test this rudder until May when the tug goes back into the water for the season (working tug)

Joel
SEA3PO
 
C sick--did the boat you sea trialed have the 125 hp or the 110 hp engine?
Good to hear the boat handled well in chop and moderate beam seas.
I may have been mistaken about the boat in Apalachicola being #7--but that was what I was told.

Do we have any new owners with the boats? Last I asked at Wefing's, their boat was "under the shed". Not yet sold, but that was over a month ago.
 
Wefings has hull # 6 available here [still "under the shed"] . I thought they had told me it was Hull # 7 but the serial # reflects hull #6 . That would be a great boat to be on today with all the heaters running as it was 30 degrees here this A.M. and calling for 26 tommorow morning . We are just not equipped for that here in FL . BTW it is priced at the introductory price and is fully loaded . It is readily available for inspection and demos .
Marc
 
I have never ridden on the 25' tug...and would like to see what a high-powered tug is like.... I went from 16hp to 30hp on my 22' tug and did not gain any speed, but pulling power is what I needed and it did that well.. I would think the 88hp. Yanmar would be a super motor and give excellent fuel economy as well as acceptable performance.... The only way to make a tug go faster is to get it up on plane....and that takes a ton of horsepower....

Joel
SEA3PO
KEA (the tug)
 
I'd be curious to hear the comments of those brats who got to see the new 25 C-Dory Tug. Kim really likes it but I am not ready to take the plunge.

How do you think it will perform with the Yanmar 110?

You can buy a lot of boat for that price - but not necessarily one that you can trail with that much room on board.

Chime in on the (+) and (-)s.
 
C-Sick,
I REALLY like the tug. To me it is a beautiful vessel and appears to be very functional. However, even though I feel fairly adept at towing various trailers behind a truck, it appears to me that this tug would take some of the pleasure out of towing to and from a launch ramp. Then launching and retrieving would certainly seem to be a challenge. Personally, I prefer to keep my vessel at my home (where my moorage fees are $0) and know that I would certainly have to expand the size of my shop a good deal to accomodate this vessel. Additionally, I enjoy being able to cruise a bit faster through the water than this vessel will allow.

If I were to have a vessel that I kept in the water at all times and cruise time (ie: speed) were not a factor for me, then this vessel would certainly be a consideration.

As has been said many times before....."each vessel is a compromise"....we just have to find what works best for each of us.
 
I was thinking that, with the 'v' hull forward, the R-25 Tug would sit pretty far down on the trailer - between the wheels. As such, I am guessing it will be alot easier to get on and off the trailer than would a TomCat since the Cat sits so high atop the trailer wheels.

Also, the inboard engine location will allow more forward axle positioning which should make for shorter turning radii than the TomCat or equally long outboard craft.

John
 
One thing for sure.... if the lines waiting just to step abourd and get a look see at the CR-25T, then, several orders are sure to follow.

This is a neat boat that does a great job in filling the void that the local Nordic Tug 27 left... and... it is a bit more trailerable with a good heavy duty 3/4 ton truck with large V-8/V-10 or turbo diesel.

Some rollers on the trailer would be nice and help in launching/retrieving the vessel, much like the Rosborough 246 trailers are set up.

A great boat, docking is hands down simple with the fore and aft thrusters.

I kinda agree with Dav S.... bottom paint this baby, keep her in the water on the ready. Toss a few ropes, unplug the yellow addictive cord...and away for a nice smooth, slow relaxing 10 knot day/night of cruising....in water deeper than 36" for bottom clearance. A nice boat for a couple to do some very comfortable extended cruising for sure.

The Livingston attention to detail, and the way folks do thing when cruising and USING this boat shows for sure. Look at how you have access to all the storage spaces. Good Job Livingstons!!!

Now... use that hull, create an expanded CR-21-EC to fit on this CR-25-T hull.....and wow... what a baby!!! Yes, I like cockpit space. I found it really interesting that the southern catamaran builders represented in the show are now chasing "more cabin/less cockpit" for the NW markets, and the NW cats,....are starting to look at less cabin and more cockpit for the SE markets. Wonder what a boat built in Middleville USA would look like?
 
As for launching and loading, I witnessed one of the first 25's launch and load at Shilshole in seattle last summer and it was not a problem for whoever was doing it. Just like a 22 or 25. 3 or 4 minutes to load and haul it out. Actually pretty impressive for a boat of that size.
 
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