Something to Think About!

O

oldgrowth

New member
I am probably not the best person to say this. There are others that are much more diplomatic than I am, but here goes –

It seems as though we have had a rash of new members asking about the negative aspects of our boats.

It also seems there are those amongst us that want to point out all the bad things about the boats. While I have no problem with negative comments about our boats or the factories, I do have a problem with someone doing nothing but bashing them.

When someone’s comments/post are more than 20% negative (that is they bash the product or factory more than two out of every 10 of their post, or they feel they have to add a negative post to a thread about the boat or factory) then, I wonder why they want to belong to this site.

Their negative comments do not have to be repeated in every post or thread. Personally, I get tired of reading negative comments continually thrown in, when it does not add to the discussion.

The thing that made this such a great site and not like others, is that it was a positive site. We enjoyed our boats. We enjoyed making our boats better. We enjoyed each other. We enjoyed helping others make their boats better.

We want to know what the potential problems of our boats are. Once or twice is enough, three times, maybe OK. More than that and it starts to get old.

I think a person enquiring about the quality of the boats or general question about the boats/factories, should be directed to the threads that have already discussed it. If they have specific questions after that, then ask. We should not have thread after thread discussing the same thing over and over, especially if it is a negative thread. If it has already been said, it does not have to be repeated over and over.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Here, Here Dave. I'm in complete agreement. I personally am getting really tired of reading negative comments about our boats, especially by those who don't own a C-Dory. It seems that heresay suddenly becomes common knowledge about C-Dory's.

I feel that this site has changed alot, especially in the past six months to a year. I notice a lot of the members who used to post a lot a year or two ago rarely post anymore. I feel this site has become less positive and less fun. Which is too bad and a little sad. Just my $.02

Peter
 
I agree totally -- perhaps if we ignore them they'll go away. If we don't respond, the threads die a natural cause and admins don't have to close them or anything else...they just drop out of sight. I would hate to see a true member of our family ignored, but I think we have a pretty good handle on who's family and who's not...trolls happen on any website...but responding to them simply fuels their efforts IMHO.

Caty
 
I agree with Dave and others - I mean the C-Dory I own is 99.9% great! What's the future in continued yammering about that .1%. A call or letter to C-Dory has resolved most of my few problems quickly.

As for the reduced posting from ppl who like their C-Dories... Well, I spend 2-3 nites a week on my TomCat, and for some reason posting does not come to mind out there...

Also, I don't like to argue and fight, so I'm trying to ignore the disproportionate negative items.

Most of the ppl on here are a great bunch of folks, and I'm thrilled to have the opportunity to share my love of C-Dories with them!

John
 
I not only agree with each poster before me but also applaud their diplomacy in the matter.
Some of us are either not capable or tolerant enough to gracefully address these frustrations. My recent "Membership exam" post is an example of this. My jab was directed at a problem not a person as I hate to see us sliding further into "Hull Truthdom" bla bla bla.
I've had problems with my boat as most have but found out a long time ago"it's no big deal". My calls to the factory have always netted a good end and in one case I was given latitude outside the written warranty!
I see the site changes as well as anyone and have to wonder where it will end up? So is there a solution?
Mike
 
Alasgun":3dk2jx7x said:
I see the site changes as well as anyone and have to wonder where it will end up?
Click to expand...

Hopefully, with Mike and I in palatial waterfront estates, with a full staff of servants, fat bank accounts, and all the beer we can drink.

But I'll settle for a Tomcat.
 
Let me "Preach to the Choir" as well. Good points all.

Unfortunately, those of us who've been involved or been a Sysop on forums and their predecessors the venerable "BBS"s, know the process well. Ad hominem attacks, unjustified complaints and defensive behavior, in my opinion, came about when BBS's went national with their posters. Even here, one finds the mellowest and most easy going group of Brats are from the Pacific Northwest, where the chance of meeting fellow Brats face to face is very high. Next largest group are those that go to gatherings around the US. Throw nationwide users who've never met other Brats or non-owners into the mix and the flavor inevitably changes. Though I haven't been a member here as long as Joe and others, I've seen the inexorable picking away at our "Just Be Nice" rule. Sad, but a fact of life. There's always, a few posters, some legitimate but more hiding behind a pseudonym that live to "Stir the Pot." The early BBS'ers gave them the name "Troll" but ridding them from a board is near impossible. I think the best method is to ignore them but the expertise of some modern trolls make it difficult.

We're suffering from excess popularity and the trolls are loose. :sad

Fortunately, the up side is that it took a very long time for this to happen and the core Brats quickly recognize who's legitimate and who's out to stir the pot....

Don
 
Greetings,

I, too, have noticed the change on this site. When C-Brats started, there were 20-40 members, who treated the site like a pub. The jokes and camaraderie flowed like beer.

But, now with 2500+ members, things are different.

We have touted and promoted our boats as great pocket cruisers and fishing boats. The public has responded by joining us and buying the boats.

But, the factory has increased production but not quality. The original boatbuilder/employees have moved on, and now the new boats are being delivered to the buyers with a few warts.

The original members were willing to overlook or fix a few problems, and wanted to and were able to change/modify/add to their boats. The newest boats are not as easy to change and the new buyers may not want to buy a new boat and have to fix/change/modify or repair it. When people spend $50,000 to $125,000 on a new boat, they want a complete, working, product, not a project. Like it or not, the factory is more like a car factory now, and most new cars don't have very many things wrong with them.

I owned my 22 cruiser for 15 years and purchased it without motor, fuel tanks, batteries or stove. I then rigged and built the boat like I wanted. That is not as possible today unless you buy used.

Dave, you not only bought used, but you did an amazing hull extension on your 16. I never would have the nerve to cut my boat in half and add two feet!

Most of the new people on this site are looking for a NEW complete boat, ready for the water. And now the dealer with the best reputation for providing custom C-Dorys and superior customer orientation, E Q Marine, may not be a dealer much longer.

By us C-Brats promoting the boats, we have attracted these new members, many of which have or want to become new boat owners. So now some C-Brats don't want to have to listen to these new members talk about the very real flaws in the newest factory boats. I don't think we can have it both ways.

How many of those posting on this thread have bought a NEW boat, which was promised to be the 'greatest boat ever', and then found out that the factory screwed up their boat, and they had to take their time and money getting it fixed when they wanted to be out boating?

We Brats have no control over the factory, but we are the ones who have to answer these new members questions.

My humble suggestion is that if you don't want to read/answer those questions, then don't click on those threads.

Good boatin' to yah!
 
Isn't there a C-Brat get together coming up? Let's talk about THAT! OR

How 'bout those SeaHawks or Huskies or Cougars OR

The TMI photo of Jim skinny dipping - even with the black square over his behind, I had to put on sunglasses to avoid being blinded by the overly white skin! 8) OR

When will Gary get his 27' CD back in the water? OR

How's the Snoqualamie Falls brewery? What beers are coming out now that fall is upon us? OR

We could always start another prop discussion or even another twins vs single discussion OR

I heard a rumor that Joe (SeaWolf) was on a plane trip with Steve Fosset.....
 
If it will help, Roger, I can post another... uh, nevermind. :twisted:

This is something that many businesses deal with... when you do a great job, that client will likely tell a couple people. If someone isn't happy, they will tell everyone. There have been some dumb things that went on with the boats/factory. I really believe these things are being worked through. As a result of success, the factory produces more boats in three months than they used to in a year. More boats = more owners = more numbers of complaints, even though the percentage may (or may not) be the same.

I've certainly had a couple complaints, and have successfully worked through them with the factory's help. Our 25 isn't fancy (especially compared to some of the more opulent "toys" we've had), but no vehicle, vessel, or craft has brought us more pleasure. And a big part of that is the bonus we received with the boat: the C-Brats! Including that guy who suggested we come to Olympia when we first picked up our boat... and then checked in on us each day. Yeah, the same crazy-ass guy who cut his boat in two and extended it!

Here's a big hug for ya, Dave. :hug :hug2 From both of us.

I think this place is still "nice". It's the main reason I wanted wireless broadband for the boat. There will always be new folks who are concerned... "Am I spending my money smartly? Is this boat going to suit me the way it does with these rabid, cult-ish C-Brats?" For us, the answers are yes and yes. For those on the outside looking in, they may not get it until they own one of these boats.

Long after we've dealt with the "shake-down" items (NONE of which affected the QUALITY of the boat), we will still be enjoying this boat.

Two years ago, when I just wanted to SEE one of these boats, several nice folks here gave me plenty of encouragement. Our thanks to all the VERY NICE people here who have made us feel a part of the group right from the beginning. I hope other new folks can be smart enough to ask questions in a "just be nice" way, and made to feel welcome.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Larry H":3ji8qvhp said:
My humble suggestion is that if you don't want to read/answer those questions, then don't click on those threads.
Click to expand...
Larry - I agree with the above statement, but the negative comments and QC issues keep popping up in threads that have nothing to do with those issues. That is what I see as a dilemma. We try to talk about our boats in a positive and enjoyable way and someone wants to jump in with negative comments and QC issues that have been beat to death. That is what I am complaining about.

If someone wants to start another thread about QC issues or any other negative aspect of the boat, then go for it. Just quit slipping it into every thread you can find a way of remotely applying it to the topic. It is impossible to miss those posts because they are everywhere.

When I say “you”, I do not mean you in particular. I am using “you” as a generic term.

Thank you for the complements on my hull extension.
________
Dave dlt.gif
 
Hi Brats,

First of all, I have been a member of this site since Jan of '05 when we ordered our boat, have nearly 400 posts, only a handful describe the initial problems that we had with Valkyrie, have owned Valkyrie for over two years, have almost 7000 hits on our album, have attended three Gatherings and nearly fifteen years ago wrote the Boating World article on the CD 22 for that appears on the factory website, so I guess that I am family.

I respect and agree, to some extent, with what everyone has said in the posts in this thread, but I have a question:

What has been stated above that hasn't been stated repeatedly over the last year? Nothing new that I can see. Why can't we just deal with it or let it go?

What bothers me most is the decidedly negative attitude by some that seems to be driving away new people coming to the site. People who are discerning enough to have chosen to consider a C-Dory, just like we did.

Get frustrated with some questions and comments? Hell, do what I do - head to the boat and down a few cool ones, haul in some more fish, anchor off for the night, just putter around the boat or take it out for a spin.

I suspect that the new boats you see running alongside you will be driven by some of the new people here asking legitimate questions.

That's how Marcia and I got started.

Respectfully,

Nick
"Valkyrie"

PS: Dave - I also admire your craftmanship as seen in your extension. Heck I cringe when it comes to using a hole saw on a hull, let alone lopping off a big hunk of transom!
 
No one loves his C-Dory more than me-no one. If you live long enough, (I'm 71), you see lots things changing, some for the better and some not. Whether a change is for better or worse is, most times, simply a value judgement based on one's particular accumulation of experiences. When I see these comments, some positive some negative in my view, I just know that well, I've been around awhile, and around and around it goes, and me and my 16 footer are still enjoying the ride. And that's a really good thing. :love
 
A Love Story here! We fished the ocean in an open 17' Alumaweld for 7 summers, caught lots of fish, got cold, wet, sunburned and had fun. Also viewed the local C-Dory owners with jealous eyes. Early Aug we saw a used C-19 in the paper - looked at that boat and were instantly HOOKED. But that deal was not to be so we cranked up the computer and looked around, and found our dream in Oregon City. A few phone calls, then a visit, and 1 WEEK later our "Shake Down" cruise on our brand new 2008 model C-19. In spite of being busy - the Sportscraft Marina crew had engines on and other work done (and done RIGHT), that boat ready to go as promised!! Great guys!! Thanks Ken and all!!

We managed to get in 2 great weeks fishing (as we <with some great help from friends> <C-Dory owners no less> gradually got most of the electronics added) before things wound down for the season.

We are thrilled with the boat and as far as we know so far - IT'S PERFECT!

Smooth sailing - Marcia
 
Ken, you know that the site you linked to is going to get a real spike in hits... and the price of that boat is going to skyrocket. :mrgreen: "Honey, everybody is interested in this boat - we need to raise the price!"

Yes, we are two days into fall. For some of you in the frozen northland, this means putting boats away. OR, you could haul those boats south... it's still summer in the Tropical Tip of Texas, and there is no such thing as "the boating season." 8) Perhaps this is why the southern contingent here is so happy freakin' go lucky all the time? :lol:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim,

I just showed your post to Marcia. Her reply, "Ask Jim and Joan if there are any house for sale on their canal!"

Actually, Valkyrie will probably following your FL route of last winter!

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
Valkyrie":w8bv5tra said:
Jim,

I just showed your post to Marcia. Her reply, "Ask Jim and Joan if there are any house for sale on their canal!"

Actually, Valkyrie will probably following your FL route of last winter!

Nick
"Valkyrie"
Click to expand...

Well, as a matter of fact, our friends who live the next canal over just told us they're moving in a few months. Nice place. They sold their boat and are moving to be closer to their kids... sigh. I wish I had bought a bunch of real estate here 5 years ago - no housing slow down happening here.

Florida is a great place to spend the winter. We had a wonderful time there this past winter. While our climate is similar to south Florida, we don't have the cruising opportunities ... if we did, we'd never leave. 8)

Look for a PM.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
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