Speed vs Time

T

tranmkp

New member
Hi to All

Noobie here - at least to C-Dory. Long time sailor and Albin 27 owner. Planning Capers for the future.

I only know displacement speed. Had a Whaler a long time ago - fast but not comfortable and used fuel like a corporate jet.

So here is the question - or maybe something for opinions. I pland to to the Loop and the inside passage.

So, i can buy a aluminum custom trawler (same length as CD) or I can buy the CD -

in a nutshell a 10hr day will produce 80 miles - the other boat maybe 130 Miles

the trawler will use just under a gallon a hour

so - tell me what you think? - is the speed REALLY and advantage? I can get about 500 miles on the diesel trawler of the same length

thanks and cheers

Here is my old boat - only reason i am not considering it is that the hull is just too lightly built.

http://artshot.net/albin27forsale/
 
The speed question is really subjective. If your happy at displacement speed it may not be a huge advantage. Many c-dory owners prefer to travel slowly at displacement speed. The nice thing is the opportunity is there to go faster if it's needed..... like an unexpected thunderstorm, making it to the dock before dark, or you cant wait to unload your drunk brother in law at the dock :lol: I like to go a little faster and am impatient, so I rarely go displacement speed and usually only slow down when it gets choppy. Even at those speeds the fuel burn is pretty conservative.

You mentioned your looking for something with a heavier build than your Albin. The C-dory is definitely not what I'd consider a heavy build. That's an advantage when trailering but they were built pretty light compared to other boat of this size we've owned. You feel that in the water, both good and bad. They float like a cork.

Those Albins are pretty cool by the way. We were admiring one we were docked next to a couple weeks ago and thought of some hilarious uses for the aft cabin berth thing near the transom. Unfortunately my wife said that's where Id be banished to on chili dog night :sad
 
Well, of course if time doesn't matter, then speed doesn't matter. You've mentioned the Inside Passage: If you've got all the time in the world you can always wait another day, or week, to get around Cape Caution or across the Dixon Entrance at 7 knots. You just need a several hour weather window instead of a couple of hours. And you can also wait through another tide cycle to avoid Dent Rapids currents that are twice the speed of your boat (not to mention the significant whirl pools that can develop shockingly fast either side of the laughably short "slack.") Speed, used properly can be a safety factor. Hull design matters too, if for example, you want to explore small bays entered only through shallow passages. One of the chief attractions to me about the C-Dory is the ability to slide through some really skinny water.

Of course, you give up something with any choice in boat design. Shallow draft can give you economical planning speed, but it can't give what a keel can. But a boat that can go faster, can also go slower, and unlike some boats, the C-Dory tends to have a very wide range of manageable speeds.


Don't get me wrong, I love slow cruising in a sturdy trawler, but for what I mostly wanted out of a boat - safe, economical, cruising and exploring up and down the Inside Passage - my boat was perfect.
 
That Albion is a very good boat for the loop. If I were doing the Loop again and had an Albion, that would be my choice.

When we were doing the Atlantic section of the loop we saw a couple of them and thought that they would be way better than the sailboat we were on. And actually, the Atlantic coast is the only place where you might go into the ocean. The rest of the trip is benign. The lakes, rivers and canals are pretty easy.

One Albion was owned by a consortium from California where different partners would come out and trade off. So the boat must have been sturdy.

BTW, where would you find a diesel trawler that is similar to the C-Dory? Or are you talking about a 30' boat? If you are, go for the size, it's a lot more comfortable. Also, Journey On has taken quite a beating at times; nothing broke or went wrong. so I think C-Dorys are also sturdy.

Boris
 
Navigating the currents of the inside passage in a least the southern sections, I like having the speed option to maintain boat control to go through flowing waters while they are flowing. Waiting for slack water is too limiting and I don't like limits. For fuel usage, going slowly in our 19 with a new Suzuki 90 gets us 8-10 nautical MPG while going 12-22 knots lowers that to about 3.5 NMPG.

We have more money than time for now, so we use that speed with regularity, but when we do occasionally have a bit of time to spare, we love running slowly and enjoying the quiet hum and slowly moving scenery. The new four stroke injected outboards are really quite nice. Speed can be safety but most of the time it is convenience.

Also, about the weight; The C-dorys are not what I would call a heavily built boat, but I would argue that heavily built does not equate to strong or sturdy. In non-precision engineering (most boat building) more weight or more material is really equating to more strength or durability. And the lighter the craft, this less energy there is to cause a structural failure. If you drop a piece of popped popcorn from 6ft onto a concrete surface, it will be fine, does that mean it is heavily built?

Some heavily built things are just heavy.

Greg
 
The ‘Loop’ is just an excuse for folks who made the awful mistake of buying a boat that is just too fat, too slow, too heavy, and too tall to be put on a trailer and towed at 60MPH anywhere on the continent, through any thunderstorm, to a different ramp to explore a new area at 5MPH, or at 25 MPH (or 40MPH), depending on your desires and budget.
How many Loopers think the Lower Tombigbee 200 miles ditch or the lower Mississippi 500 miles heavy industry area is anything other than to be Endured Because You Have To because you don’t have a trailerable boat?
We are running the fattest, heaviest CD (TC255) posting and still have over 15g gas in each 75g tank left over from our Key West Adventure fill-up in Dec 2017. That is not ‘Corporate Jet’ money. We trailer to near our destination (getting over 11mpg in a Duramax diesel GMC HD2500) and then we don’t care if we get 1.9 MPH for the last 3-12 miles.
Get a trailer boat and only do the ‘best of’ the Loop. You’ll save a bundle.
Sorry for the Loop bad mouthing, but it’s been eating at me for a while. Why should trailer boaters give a rip about what non-trailer boaters fantasize about, only because the fat heavy boats have no other options?
Get a grip.
Happy Trailering!
John
 
Of all the above posts, I think Greg hits the sweet spot. We have done the inside passage 4x in a Cal 46 (I call it a motor sailor, even though it would sail both at 8 knots and power at 8 knots) Our usual speed was 6 knots, and had a range of over 2000 miles. We could do one pass most days, because of needing to go thru a pass at near slack water. With time, and experience (and a great spade rudder) we did go thru some rapids with the flood.

With the C Dory 25 we did the lower and upper part of the Inside Passage and we could easily do 3 passes in a day, because of the speed when we needed it. Both displacement and fast speeds have their places. There is no one who can make that decision for you. It will always cost more fuel wise to make the speed.

As for the Great Loop--we have done parts of it both in a 62 foot ketch, a 42 foot Symbol motor yacht (average speed 8 knots, 12 knots possible) and various C Dorys' (Atlantic ICW and some of the river systems). I agree with John, that there are advantages of being able to trailer to the best parts of the loop. However, I also believe that most folks do the look way too fast. This is an affair with the love of heartland America. You can visit and be part of some of greatest little cities in America. I do believe that those who go from marina to marina, and see the same folks for cocktails each night, are really missing seeing HeartLand America. On the other hand, Bill and El, Pat and Patty Anderson, and Jonathan Arthur (Salty) all have had great experiences doing the Loop--all in different variations and at various paces. Jonathan has done it 3x and I suspect will do it again, but in another different way.
 
I don't know many long time sailors who "trade up" to another vessel that still
travels at single digit speeds. For me, if I couldn't sail at 8 knots, it was iron
jenny time. When I was ready to make the switch to power, I looked at trawlers
but rolling and displacement speeds for most stalled my enthusiasm for such.

Guess I'd had enough watching power boats passing me sailing in view of a marina
and them taking the last available slip. Maybe it was getting to the bar late and
not being able to find a seat and having all the pretty women spoken for.

I learned first control. Then speed. And that's important. Speed changes you.
Planning a full day sailing getting there, then dealing with the left overs ashore
is fun only for a while. With speed, your thinking changes to what to do with all
the time you'll have once you arrive. Then there's the watering hole advantages
previously mentioned. And, occasionally being able to out run a frontal system.

Of course, with speed, you can always stop and hang in some nice spot for as long
as you want, then take off.

Don't use fuel cost as a reason to not get into faster. All boats are equal in this
respect: They are all just a hole in the water to throw money into.

So, it all comes down to what blows your hair back.

Aye.
 
I'm more or less a displacement speed guy (long time sail boat guy); but I love the speed of my C-Dory. I cruise at 8 MPH most of the time, but when I want/need to get there, I go 20 to 26 MPH.

Case in point....I have relatives from Oregon coming this weekend. They want to go shrimping. They have limited time -- we only have the day. I can hightail it to the shrimping grounds in about an hour at 25 MPH. So instead of spending 6 hours traveling with its associated o'dark-thirty b'fast, and all the rest, we will have a pleasant, not too early day, and still be home in plenty of time to join the ladies for a massive shrimp dinner.
 
gulfcoast john":ztrq792q said:
The ‘Loop’ is just an excuse for folks who made the awful mistake of buying a boat that is just too fat, too slow, too heavy, and too tall to be put on a trailer and towed at 60MPH anywhere on the continent, through any thunderstorm, to a different ramp to explore a new area at 5MPH, or at 25 MPH (or 40MPH), depending on your desires and budget.
How many Loopers think the Lower Tombigbee 200 miles ditch or the lower Mississippi 500 miles heavy industry area is anything other than to be Endured Because You Have To because you don’t have a trailerable boat?
We are running the fattest, heaviest CD (TC255) posting and still have over 15g gas in each 75g tank left over from our Key West Adventure fill-up in Dec 2017. That is not ‘Corporate Jet’ money. We trailer to near our destination (getting over 11mpg in a Duramax diesel GMC HD2500) and then we don’t care if we get 1.9 MPH for the last 3-12 miles.
Get a trailer boat and only do the ‘best of’ the Loop. You’ll save a bundle.
Sorry for the Loop bad mouthing, but it’s been eating at me for a while. Why should trailer boaters give a rip about what non-trailer boaters fantasize about, only because the fat heavy boats have no other options?
Get a grip.
Happy Trailering!
John
Click to expand...

That's wisdom right there folks!
 
gulfcoast john":3owhowfr said:
Why should trailer boaters give a rip about what non-trailer boaters fantasize about, only because the fat heavy boats have no other options?
Click to expand...

That's a lot to embroider on a pillow, but I'll see if my wife can do it.

The CD 16 is my first trailerable, planing, overnighter boat. Beach landings. Fishing. Rivers. There are some compromises of course, but given all that it can do, I rarely notice them.

Planing is a nice feature, but it's just one. At the Friday Harbor CBGT, we took off after breakfast for Wasp Passage on plane. Stopped mid-channel to watch a sea lion eat an octopus, beached on Coon Island for a walk and photos, poked through some rocks that I wouldn't have gotten close to in a bigger boat or with deeper draft, did some close-up bird watching, and back to FH by lunch. Planing was only part of the quick little cruise, but it actually made it all possible.

I hit 25 knots (29 mph) in Peavine Passage (because the current was with us at 3 knots). But the stonecrop blooming on Coon Island was the highlight. That and following a gray whale right in to G dock. Back to Bellingham, put it on the trailer, and home in several hours. I've forgotten what it was that I liked about the Grand Banks 42.

Mark
 
An advantage of being able to travel faster is that you can spend more time enjoying your destination and less time in the actual getting there.
 
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